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3L Hybrid questions

95_Mystique

95_Mystique

Hard-core CEG'er
Joined
Jul 19, 2007
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Middletown, Pa
So, i'm about done doing just about every bolt on to my 3L hybrid, so i'm thinking of getting another 3L block and building another 3L hybrid block from the ground up. I was thinking about doing a few things different though.

First of all, how much could i mill off of the head to bring the compression ratio even higher? Or would i be better off trying to find higher CR pistons?

I was thinking of doing a 3L block, 02 cougar heads with 3L valves, and possibly a 3L intake manifold. That way it has the best of all 3 worlds. Higher compression ratio, moves more air though the motor, and better oiling.


I'm not saying i'm going to go do this next week, or even next year, i'm just brain storming. I'm trying to find a way to make the most N/A HP out of a 3L. I'd love to go turbo, but i want to try something a little different. Plus, for the price of a new turbo kit, i could build a 3L that has the potential to make 250 or so whp.
 
When I swaped from a hybrid 3L to my ported 3L it netted me about 20whp (200whp vs 220whp). I had SVT heads with a expensive port job and 3L valves from Kinger (way back when). You might want to consider 3L heads (ported or full 3L). That compression bump just wasn't giving the power bump, at least in my case. It was the same block by the way. The only thing swapped were the heads. I did gasket match the exhaust ports and spend a little extra time with the porting work on the intake side so the transition was smooth.

A good ported or full 3L can hit 220whp. If you are hitting 195 and you could hit the same if not more power with less compression I'd consider that a win win. That's less of a chance of detonation and you could run 87 octane in the 3L.

Something to think about....
 
My friend has a portmatched 3L. We went to a dyno day where i only made 5 less HP. His was tuned with gutted precats, optimzed Y pipe, Optimzed TB and a short ram. Mine was running stock precats, MSDS Y pipe, Optimzed TB and short ram and still untuned. I'm thinking with a tune, i'm able to easy hit over 220whp with the headers installed as well.
 
So, no one else has any opinions? No, "that's stupid" "waste of time" "full 3L is better" or "OMG why didnt i think of that?" ? lol
 
dont start that again!
do what ever build you want.
full or ported or hybrid. full imo is easiest and gives u as much power as any other and lots of low end. ported will be more top end.
 
Blackcoog said:
When I swaped from a hybrid 3L to my ported 3L it netted me about 20whp (200whp vs 220whp). I had SVT heads with a expensive port job and 3L valves from Kinger (way back when). You might want to consider 3L heads (ported or full 3L). That compression bump just wasn't giving the power bump, at least in my case. It was the same block by the way. The only thing swapped were the heads. I did gasket match the exhaust ports and spend a little extra time with the porting work on the intake side so the transition was smooth.

A good ported or full 3L can hit 220whp. If you are hitting 195 and you could hit the same if not more power with less compression I'd consider that a win win. That's less of a chance of detonation and you could run 87 octane in the 3L.

Something to think about....
Click to expand...

What injectors were you using? The stock 19lbs are maxed out already with a basic 3L swap.

I just don't see the logic of how a full 3L makes more power than a properly done hybrid if you break it down. You have to consider differences in dynos, tuning, and the fact that it seems no one has done a proper hybrid build on here in quite some time. Certainly, a proper hybrid build is more expensive than a full 3L and is rarely done, and those with hybrids typically stick with 19lb injectors which are pushed beyond their limits, and for these reason I feel like hybrid builds have been unfairly given a bad rap. Yes to truly do a hybrid well it is more complicated and more expensive than a full 3L, but it should reward you with more power.

Look at it more closely (and correct me if I'm wrong here, most of this info I gathered from the old forum when hybrids were more popular it seems)

Intake manifolds: The split port SVT has more volume than the stock 3L, and with it's dual long runner design in theory should have higher velocity as well. It can also much more easily be ported than the plastic 3L intake manifold.

Heads: 3L heads with SVT cams will outflow a stock 2.5 SVT head due to the smaller valves of the 2.5, yes. However porting the 2.5 to accept 3L valves nullifies that advantage. Add in the fact that the shorter valve to piston distance of the 2.5 heads gives an increased compression ratio (and more efficient engine), then to me it seems the 2.5 heads with 3L valves are superior.

Fuel & Tuning: Here is where hybrids are getting the short end of the stick I feel like, because most take shortcuts. Those with a full 3L can easily find 24lb injectors that provide plenty of flow for their fuel needs, and work just fine with the stock SVT PCM...a proper tune yielding even more power. Most hybrid owners take the cheap route and use the stock 19lb, and they are really shortchanging themselves here. Others use the 24lb injectors...but these injectors were designed for the oval port heads. There is one option...and those are the 21lb (I believe) injectors off the 96-99 duratec which were designed for the split port heads. Obviously, a tune is a necessity to compensate for the increase in CR and larger injectors, and again many hybrid owners shortchange themselves by using the stock PCM.

I haven't heard of anyone using the 96-99 injectors, but I'm thinking about trying.
 
yea but with the increased displacement on the 3L ford obviosly decided to match it up with an oval port manifold for a reason. because the 2.5 is small they wanted low end and high end on a tiny engine
 
btw...like 2 posts under that, read what stuartgrant wrote:

StuartGrant said:
Nope, the SVT UIM and the plastic 3L UIM's have been flow bench tested by contour owners, the SVT flows about 85 ish liters per second while the plastic oval ports flow at about 99-104 liters per second. I don't think the ST220 UIM was ever bench tested.
Click to expand...
 
Actually the older 96-99 3L's came with split port intake manifolds, which is where I feel hybrid owners should source their injectors from. Seems like a cost cutting measure to switch to the plastic ones, not a performance one. But I could be wrong.
 
it also doesnt take into an account for a ported st220 uim either...
your point?
my point is theres a reason ford didnt keep the split port.
they did like 4 million times the research as everyone here or neco put together...
 
Just playing devil's advocate, but they didn't account for using SVT cams in 3L heads either.

I didn't want to include the ST220 because 99% on here will never be able to find one.
 
yea but my plan is to use only the best and largest of everything, it will take a while since im getting married next year. so ebay has had them for about 150-250 shipped to the US

but svt cams are tuned for the svt uim for their airflows to match up. im not saying you cant do it, im saying why wouldnt u wanna not put a few things together that are meant to be together for performance gains.

well unless your still talking about using all the svt bolt-ons together on a 3L
 
I apologize for bring this thread back from the dead, but at the risk (once again) of asking a stupid question, when people talk about a "ported 3.0L swap", does this refer to "port and polish" or "port match" ?

thanks,

Mad Dog
 
So, to again put myself at the risk of raising my stupid-osity quotient....a "ported (port matched) 3.0L swap" = hybrid ?

My brain hurts.

thanks,

Mad Dog
 
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