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3.0L Project Cougar

T

Teebs

CEG'er
Joined
Dec 17, 2007
Messages
108
Been running a build thread over on NECO, but have been visiting these forums more and more frequently so I thought I'd cross post my build thread over here! Seems more 3L are done over here than at NECO...

http://www.newcougar.org/forums/3-0l-duratec-performance/148986-teebs-3l-build.html

Also have a few questions.

1. Where's everyone putting their coil packs on the newer engines that came with COP? Couldn't find anything with searches. I know its been answered, I just can't seem to find it...

2. Is the backfiring a normal occurrence for an untuned 3L or should I be trying to track down some vacuum leaks or something?
Video Here: http://www.flickr.com/photos/60936731@N08/6003925258/

Thanks, Tim.
 
I know there is a variety of coil pack locations that people use, here's a pic from what I ended up doing. It was really easy to do, all it required was a small bracket to attach it to the valve cover. I cut a small L shaped piece of sheet metal to make the bracket. It's held up so far and the coil pack hasn't moved at all. I also used the plug wires I bought from Napa with no issues. I just had to reverse which ones went to the front and back.

5610814738_eae3f2ec00_z.jpg
 
Well now I can barely get the car to idle. No idea what happened, but I was sitting in the driveway with it idling and suddenly it started to stumble. I can't get it to idle now without a little bit of gas. Time to track down vacuum leaks I suppose...
 
i plan on doing that coil pack on the side also but i had a quick question about the vac lines how do they conect to the 3l uppper sense its not like the stock setup i was jw.

maybe your bad idle could be bad sparkplugs and wires or make sure they are all in the correct spot i had one of mine wrong before and it did the same thing
 
I would think that a wire in the wrong spot would be a little more obvious though? It was running perfect at idle before, just a tad rich. Then it's like a switch was pulled and it went to running like crap. No idea why, didn't change anything. Just all of a sudden while it was idling in the driveway.

How should an untuned full 3L swap be running? Is a bad idle normal for an untuned full swap?
 
fogarty said:
i had a quick question about the vac lines how do they conect to the 3l uppper sense its not like the stock setup i was jw.
Click to expand...

You'll need to do a little work to get the vacuum lines hooked up to the 3L uim. Some hose, vacuum connectors and vacuum plugs will most likely be needed. It makes sense once you see what needs vacuum and where the vacuum ports are on the uim. It's not as bad as I thought it would be.

Teebs said:
I would think that a wire in the wrong spot would be a little more obvious though? It was running perfect at idle before, just a tad rich. Then it's like a switch was pulled and it went to running like crap. No idea why, didn't change anything. Just all of a sudden while it was idling in the driveway.

How should an untuned full 3L swap be running? Is a bad idle normal for an untuned full swap?
Click to expand...

When mine first started it would idle ok then surge then die, so it did have a bad idle for a while. I think once the pcm figured it out some the problem wasn't quite as bad, it ran rich but it would idle ok. Has it been run for more than a few minutes? If something isn't loose and there is no vacuum leak it might just be a matter of the pcm trying to compensate for the injectors and other changes the new engine creates.
 
Every time I've started it the idle has been perfect. It would run a little rich and backfire if you gas it some gas and let off quickly, but other than that it seemed perfect. Then out of nowhere while it was idling it started to struggle to maintain and idle and then died. Now it will only keep idling if I give it some gas. I've reset the PCM to see if that's it, but no change. All I get for codes are IMRC, and bank 1 and 2 rich.
 
What are your plans for tuning? Does a 2000 Cougar have 17lb injectors? I'm basing my responses on an SVT pcm calibrated for 19lb injectors. Maybe if the pcm thinks it's running 17's and you have 24's installed it's more rich than an SVT pcm would be on 24lb injectors. If you can't find any other issues maybe that could be the issue?
 
Yes the SVT has larger injectors than a Cougar. IIRC it would be the same as a non-SVT contour. My plan for tuning was to take it about 1.5hours away to Steeda for tuning. They're really my only option I know of around me. And they got some pretty impressive numbers of almost 200hp and 200ft/lbs out of a SVT swapped cougar with some bolt ons. So they tuned a Cougar before, and they also tune other 3L Duratec cars.

If it ran rough straight from the start then I wouldn't be too concerned. Would have just summed it up to it being an untuned 3L... But it ran nearly perfect other than being a little rich.

And I swear, this car is mocking me or something. Go into the garage today to troubleshoot and it fires right up and stays steady at 750RPM or so once the idle settles down. And yesterday the passenger side window would go down, but not up. I had to push it back in the garage because the clouds were getting dark and we were calling for rain. Once it was in the garage, the window went up no problem. Yup....

See if it does it again, I might be pushing it out of the garage again tonight for my first lesson in it. Yes, I bought a standard car without actually knowing how to drive it. lol
 
I would maybe call the place you are going to tune with and have a talk with them about what you're experiencing and what your plans are for tuning. Get any possible other issues squared away with the car and if you're convinced nothing is out of place then you could call the tuner. The place that did my tune was nice enough to sell me the Xcal3 with a very basic tune loaded so I could drive the car for a couple weeks leading up to the dyno tune. I believe the base tune they gave me compensated for the lack of an IMRC, EGR and for the larger injectors. They had a file from a previous full 3L they had tuned so I would imagine that helped. I don't know if this would work out for your situation but it might be something to think about. It was nice to drive the car to work out any possible kinks prior to going in for the tune.

I wish I could remember exactly how mine ran in better detail. I know it would start and die right away sometimes, and also the surging would come back once in a while. It seemed like the more time it ran the better it would run untuned. I took it out in 4-5 mile stretches and that seemed to help too. On your backfiring thing, I haven't been able to watch the video yet, but I get some popping because of the headers I think. It's nothing crazy but it definitely was never there before the swap.

Good luck with learning to drive a stick, you won't regret it, especially when your car is all tuned and running perfectly. It will be a lot of fun.
 
My last 3L would idle rough, stumble and die after a battery disconnect for about 100kms or so. If i gave it gas, it "ran" fine...and i still drove. Just at idle it would die, and then once i drove for 100kms or so the car was fine so obviously it was the PCM learning everything again.
 
IMAG0520-1.jpg


My coil pack check out my build to see it more in detail ... Also for 3L vac lines my build has lots of pics...
 
well I did this:

270580_231707230186674_100000421960626_804076_1751697_n.jpg


269426_231707156853348_100000421960626_804073_5614375_n.jpg


but I've got a high RPM misfire under full throttle now after driving it around for around two months and it may be related to the coil hitting the fire wall....

so I'd go with elraido's setup if it where me. maybe he would be so kind as to post some pictures in this thread, because I know when I read about it the first time I really couldnt visualize it until I saw a picture. it's rather brilliant...
 
Found some issues that need to be addressed. I'm getting a randomly occuring misfire. At idle its enough to stop the engine, but while driving it just gives a slight jerk. I can try swapping the coilpack and wires out from my ATX... See if that eliminates the problem...

I'm also losing power to the engine randomly. Cruising along and the engine feels like its suddenly lost all power. If i push the throttle in, I get a low and deep, i'd almost call it like "asmatic" sound. The exhaust sounds like its been muted and all I can really hear is the intake drawing in air. The tone will change if I push the throttle, but this may just be the engine shutting down completely and just turning over with the movement of the car. When I push the clutch in, it stops turning and needs to be restarted. This one I'm scratching my head on... Any ideas? I can't tell if I'm losing spark, fuel, or if it's some other issue...

Thanks, Tim.
 
your cat could be jammed up. mine did this befoe, that is why they are all gutted now. if your running around without a tune, running pig rich, you could have sooted up the cat and now the exhaust has no place to go. mine actually melted, but that is a different story...
 
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