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3.0L Limitations
- Thread starter mondyman2
- Start date
Rara
Hard-core CEG'er
It mostly depends on how spot on your tune/calibration is. We've seen here people breaking stock rods and pistons at relatively low power levels, and we've also seen people making 350+ HP on stock internals.
Generally, its recommended that forced induction cars upgrade the pistons and rods, especially when planning to make 350 or more HP, but, again, there are a number of people that have had limited success with stock internals at these power levels because they were willing to take the risk.
Generally, its recommended that forced induction cars upgrade the pistons and rods, especially when planning to make 350 or more HP, but, again, there are a number of people that have had limited success with stock internals at these power levels because they were willing to take the risk.
Rara
Hard-core CEG'er
I don't believe the ST220 engine has forged rods or pistons. I believe they are the same as the US spec taurus bottom end, which is cast hypereutectic pistons and sinter-forged rods. However, this is difficult to confirm or deny because of the rarity of the ST220 bits, especially here in the US. However, the crankshaft is most definately forged.
I have copied this from the Ford book.
“The block of the 3.0-litre Duratec V6 is all aluminium and very light at only 31kg. On the inside, the combustion chambers look like they come directly from Fords Formula One design book.”
“Also influenced by motorsport technology is its lightweight slipper piston with forged, forged rods with fracture-split lower ends.”
“This engine demonstrates that a large bore and short stroke, which has never lost its validity in motorsport, is ideal in a production performance car.”
“The slim 60* V6 also fits perfectly into the Mondeo concept, and can be easily mounted transversely under the hood”.
“The block of the 3.0-litre Duratec V6 is all aluminium and very light at only 31kg. On the inside, the combustion chambers look like they come directly from Fords Formula One design book.”
“Also influenced by motorsport technology is its lightweight slipper piston with forged, forged rods with fracture-split lower ends.”
“This engine demonstrates that a large bore and short stroke, which has never lost its validity in motorsport, is ideal in a production performance car.”
“The slim 60* V6 also fits perfectly into the Mondeo concept, and can be easily mounted transversely under the hood”.
Rara
Hard-core CEG'er
The problem with most of those type of books, as well as Ford service manuals, is they are often written by people that had nothing to do with the design, or may have never even looked at the components in question.
In this case, the "lightweight slipper piston" they refer to is a cast hypereutectic piston with a low friction coating on the skirt. And the "forged rods with fracture split lower ends" is actually technically correct, but not complete either. The rods are sinter forged, which means they start out as a mix of powdered metal, and are pressed into a mold for shape, then they are forged with heat and pressure to the final shape as a single piece; then the big end is cracked apart (the forged shape has notches to control the crack locations) to make for a "perfect" mating surface. So, while they are technically forged, they are not what most folks typically think of as forged. Even the Aston Martin 6.0L V12 uses these same powdered metal sinter-forged rods.
In this case, the "lightweight slipper piston" they refer to is a cast hypereutectic piston with a low friction coating on the skirt. And the "forged rods with fracture split lower ends" is actually technically correct, but not complete either. The rods are sinter forged, which means they start out as a mix of powdered metal, and are pressed into a mold for shape, then they are forged with heat and pressure to the final shape as a single piece; then the big end is cracked apart (the forged shape has notches to control the crack locations) to make for a "perfect" mating surface. So, while they are technically forged, they are not what most folks typically think of as forged. Even the Aston Martin 6.0L V12 uses these same powdered metal sinter-forged rods.
Thanks for that informative post, I love my ST and the engine is the party piece, I'm looking to find out as much as I can about it.
In standard tune with yearly servicing, how long do these engines last? I know there are many factors that determine this, but with the assumption its looked after, oil changed every 6,000 miles, warmed up correctly etc; can I expect to see 200k?
In standard tune with yearly servicing, how long do these engines last? I know there are many factors that determine this, but with the assumption its looked after, oil changed every 6,000 miles, warmed up correctly etc; can I expect to see 200k?
Rara
Hard-core CEG'er
I see no specific reason why you wouldn't reach 200k, but it is a mechanical device, and they do wear out over time. The most common major problem w/ the Duratec V6 here in the States is having a rod bearing fail because the factory bearings are not forgiving at all to any foreign material in oil, or to any crank whip, or anyhting of that sort. At higher mileage, or when building up a new engine, many people here fit the clevite rod bearings to provide some additional forgiveness should something go wrong. In the contour and Mk1 and Mk2 Mondeo platforms, its relatively easy to get to the rod bearings, but I have no idea what it would take in a Mk3 mondeo since I've never worked on one.
Fwiw, I'd have to agree on the ST220 engine being the party piece, lol. It is definately the best production version of the Duratec V6 family to date. I actually have the ST220 intake manifold fitted to my SVT Contour.
Fwiw, I'd have to agree on the ST220 engine being the party piece, lol. It is definately the best production version of the Duratec V6 family to date. I actually have the ST220 intake manifold fitted to my SVT Contour.
Theres less than 5,000 ST220's in the UK and due to the fuel they use not many of them become high mileage. I don't know what "rod end bearings" are, but out of the one or two that have failed were down to oil starvation, which caused the big end bearings on the crankshaft to fail. A few people have had oil mysteriously dissapear from the sump of their V6.
Rara
Hard-core CEG'er
What you describe as "big end bearings" refer to the "big end" of the connecting rod, and are precisely what I was describing. The ST220 engines should be virtually identical to the US spec. 3L and 2.5L engines in regards to failure modes.
A lot of what people attribute to "oil starvation" may not be exactly that, as it is not quite that simple, and is part of what I tried to describe with the bearing characteristics above.
One thing you can do to help the life of your engine is to NOT use the 5W20 oil as recommended by Ford. It is only recommended by Ford to improve the average fuel economy numbers. And while it still passes Ford's own internal durability testing, it does not offer anywhere near the same level of protection as a thicker oil, and from tests I've seen, the passing margin on Ford's own internal tests is far higher when run w/ the 5W30 compared to the 5W20. I would recommend a minimum of 5W30 for cold weather, and all the way up to a 10W40 in hot weather for cars driven aggressively.
A lot of what people attribute to "oil starvation" may not be exactly that, as it is not quite that simple, and is part of what I tried to describe with the bearing characteristics above.
One thing you can do to help the life of your engine is to NOT use the 5W20 oil as recommended by Ford. It is only recommended by Ford to improve the average fuel economy numbers. And while it still passes Ford's own internal durability testing, it does not offer anywhere near the same level of protection as a thicker oil, and from tests I've seen, the passing margin on Ford's own internal tests is far higher when run w/ the 5W30 compared to the 5W20. I would recommend a minimum of 5W30 for cold weather, and all the way up to a 10W40 in hot weather for cars driven aggressively.
Blackcoog
Hard-core CEG'er
I'm running 325whp on my stock 3l block without any issues. I know others have gone higher. I plan to go a bit higher.
Big Jim
Hard-core CEG'er
As far as overall durability is concerned you should expect engine life similar to mine as long as you aggressively maintain it. Currently I have 237,000 miles on it. It still runs great. My intention is to keep it until it hits 300,000 miles and then see if I still like it. By then, I'll determine if I like it enough to paint the car and install a 3.0.
No major problems so far. Original clutch. The original brakes lasted 150,000 miles. The only significant upgrade is the installation of the Warmonger big brake kit.
No major problems so far. Original clutch. The original brakes lasted 150,000 miles. The only significant upgrade is the installation of the Warmonger big brake kit.