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Rocker arm swap with front cover left on

S

SicSE

Veteran CEG'er
Joined
Sep 7, 2007
Messages
889
Location
Kennesaw, GA
I have a timing chain wedge designed for the Triton engines that pushes back the timing chain tensioner and holds the chain in place so that you can pull the cam without having to take off the front cover. I'm hoping to be able to do this with the Duratec when I swap rocker arms. So has anyone pulled the cams leaving the front cover on? Also, does anyone have pics of the timing chain area with only the valve cover removed?
 
The guy that used to own icysvt's car (I believe was hammy....something) had some pictures with just the front valve cover off. Check the classified and 3L sections. Now that I mentioned it, they might have been pulled.

Not too sure on how this will work but, make sure you dont drop the chains after the cams are out!
 
SicSE said:
There's no way I'm going to be the first to try this... right?
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I would have to say you would be the first. never heard of anyone swapping cams with out removing the front cover ... maybe getting them out but not off the car.


only other throught is with the cam caps loose is there enough space to remove the rocker when the engine is turned by hand? then you wouldn't need to remove the cams if you where careful enough.
 
TourEnvy said:
Not too sure on how this will work but, make sure you dont drop the chains after the cams are out!
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I hear ya. That's one of the functions of the wedge... it slides down between the two sides of the chain, pushing against each side and depressing the tensioner. Once installed properly, that chain can't move.

BrApple said:
only other throught is with the cam caps loose is there enough space to remove the rocker when the engine is turned by hand? then you wouldn't need to remove the cams if you where careful enough.
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That would definitely work for the second & third cylinders in each bank, but I'm pretty sure that I would need a different strategy for the front cylinder.

On 4.6l 2-valve heads, you could line up the rocker on the valve stem, then pop it into place onto the lifter with a screw driver or small pry bar... without even loosening the cam caps. I think I sorta tried that when I originally assembled these heads, but it wouldn't work because there was no way to get the needed leverage.
 
Why do you think you need to remove the cam to change the finger followers? Need to read a bit more and follow the Ford CD I sell for valve spring removal. Just use the Ford tool to compress the spring and slide out the old follower.
standard.jpg
 
are you sure you wont be able to do the front cylinders? i put my followers in with the cam caps loose and the cams in. i think there was enough slack in the chains to do it
 
turbo_fox said:
are you sure you wont be able to do the front cylinders? i put my followers in with the cam caps loose and the cams in. i think there was enough slack in the chains to do it
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I was speculating - I couldn't remember if I ever actually tried it or not. If you've done it, then I must be wrong... which is a good thing in this instance - thanks! :cool:
 
todd's got a point there. if you take spring pressure off the valve you shouldnt have a problem sliding them out. then you wouldnt have to touch timing gear or the cams all that much.
 
todras said:
Why do you think you need to remove the cam to change the finger followers? Need to read a bit more and follow the Ford CD I sell for valve spring removal. Just use the Ford tool to compress the spring and slide out the old follower.
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part number for that handy little tool please
 
The cam must have the base circle of the cam on the follower AND operate the spr. compressor WITH CARE. You DO NOT want he collets to pop out of the spring and drop into the engine! When the valve moves down ease out the finger follower and slide in the new one.
 
todras said:
The cam must have the base circle of the cam on the follower AND operate the spr. compressor WITH CARE. You DO NOT want he collets to pop out of the spring and drop into the engine! When the valve moves down ease out the finger follower and slide in the new one.
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LOL, man that would suck. "Ok, I compress the spring, and . . . wait, where did the valve go????"
 
Rara said:
LOL, man that would suck. "Ok, I compress the spring, and . . . wait, where did the valve go????"
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I've actually been asked by a couple different people if there was anyway to get a valve back out of a cylinder after it dropped down in. LOL

It did happen to me once too... even though I had pressurized the cylinder with air to keep the valves closed. I was just putting in a new stem seal and went to slide it down over the stem, temporarily forgeting how important it is to hold the valve in place as you do so, especially since I didn't have a sleeve over the top of the stem. Well the seal caught on the keeper grooves as you would expect and my dumbass, having the afore-mentioned brain fart, pushed down on the seal trying to get it past the grooves. The next three sounds were "whoooosh", "tink", and "motherf*cker". Just like that, it went from a 1 hr job, to a 12 hr one. :blackeye:
 
Well, I can confirm that Brapple and Turbo_Fox were right. This IS doable and is how I did it even though I found a valve spring compressor that worked. It was much faster to just pull the caps & loosen the front ones, then tilt the cam as needed to install the rockers. Piece of cake. :cool:

And as an update, for some reason, the computer was over-compensating to the rich side for the added air... almost a half a point in some places. Consequently, my gains were not anything like I expected, but we'll see what it looks like once the PCM leans things out a little. Dyno comparison to come hopefully later this week.
 
BTW it is possible to remove the cams with the front timing cover still on. It isn't recommended though. Here is how I've done it before (to a motor/cams I didn't care about) while it was still in the car:

-remove the cam caps
-when looking down from above at the cams lift each cam up slightly by the end (non sprocket end of course).
-push the rear cam toward the rear of the car and pull the front cam toward the front.
-This should tilt the cams enough so one can lift up out of the main cap slide over without the sprockets hitting together.
-Remove the chain from the cams and remove and the cams.

Of course you can't get them back in now that the tensioner pushed all the way out unless you held tension some how. This could damage the cams or the main cam journals but if you really had to do it this is how you would do it.
 
Well, my dyno comparison showed no gains from the rockers, which led me to measure installed lift of an old rocker vs. a new one. There is no change in lift between the two rockers. :blackeye:
 
SicSE said:
Well, my dyno comparison showed no gains from the rockers, which led me to measure installed lift of an old rocker vs. a new one. There is no change in lift between the two rockers. :blackeye:
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i had been thinking that, since i compared my 3L to my 2.5L rockers extensively during my swap, but I didn't want to say anything since i didnt know what year 3L i had (supposedly an 04), and my rockers didnt have any stampings on them.
 
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