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car wont turn over...HELP!

FauxhawkFox

Hard-core CEG'er
Joined
Oct 10, 2007
Messages
2,883
Location
28.01,-81.64
1999 SVTC 2.5L 191Kmiles:cool:

Just completed UIM/LIM rebuild. And changing wires and plugs. Plugs properly gapped to .054 the are the autolites doub plat. and I got matching wire set. 8mm. The car will not turn over at all. There isnt any "er er er". I tried banging on the starter. svttour has helped me a ton!

I put the old wires on just to see if that was the problem...nope.

I was just running this car two days ago. So would the starter go out that like this? Im in the garage pulling the starter right now. Anymore suggestions would be great.

BTW I tried turning the car over and see if I could pull some codes and it said I passed. I dont know if that matters.
 
Check the starter by a piece of thick wire directly from the battery to it, see if it cranks or not. Before, be sure that the gear is in Park.
 
ive got the same problem with my 99 green csvt 184,000kms. mine when you try to start it all the lights come on , but the battery light stays on.
heres a picture.
IMG00067.jpg

when i try to turn it over it wont move. battery is good i got it tested . wires are all in good shape too. everything else is normal radio works , windows lights. it just wont click over .its a real :blackeye::blackeye::blackeye::blackeye: problem :laugh: im working on mine today so if i figure out something ill let you know. good luck keep me posted on things you find. we can like help eachother out.
 
Check the starter by a piece of thick wire directly from the battery to it, see if it cranks or not. Before, be sure that the gear is in Park.

i tried putting a wire from the battery to the starter and nothing just spark:shrug: and nothgin else changed everything is the same as starter it normally but i have noticed when i turn to turn it over the radio turns off:shrug:. wondering if it suppose to??other then that dont see nothing. oh , i tried turning the crank with a breaker bar and nothing ,wont even move. when i have the car jacked up ,both wheels turn with it in gear or not???

thanks and keep it coming
 
It was the plugs....it was the :censored::censored::censored::censored:ing plugs. Took the autolites out and put the old ones in. Car turned right over. Plugs were gapped PERFECTLY and wtf. oh well. the car runs like new! The optd ypipe might help too. Im so glad it feels like :censored::censored::censored::censored:ing christmas...the car runs strong. Im haaaappy.
 
this problem could be either mechanical or electrical. First, make sure the engine is free to turn. Take the plugs out and try turning the engine from the crank. Check to see if it will go backwards if it won't go forwards, something may have fallen in the engine when the plugs were out... leave in neutral..G.
 
were the plugs too long?

were the plugs too long?

If I read your post correctly, the engine would not turn over at all with new plugs in place and would start and run fine with the new ones in place. Were the new plugs too long? If so the side electrode should be smashed against the center electrode.
 
The gap was way too big. I dont even want to understand why. .054 I could even take a picture of that. You can see where it tried to spark but it didnt have the power to jump the gap. These old plugs and wires will be in here for a short time since Im a freaking pro at pulling the UIM off. I memorized everything to do. I think that might be a bad thing.:laugh:
 
Sounds like to me that you got good and lost. Plug gap won't cause starter to not work, or motor to lock up. How can you see where spark "tried" to jump but couldn't? If it couldn't there would be no evidence at all. Some of the stuff you posted makes no sense at all.
 
... Some of the stuff you posted makes no sense at all.

I agree.

On your opening questions made it sound like the engine wasn't "cranking " over. That is why you were going to pull the starter.
 
isn't the spark plug gap supposed to be 0.054". I think SVT's have short reach plugs 'cos the piston comes up further. First make sure the engine turns freely..then make sure the starter works. ...G.
 
The engine would not make a cranking sound. I had two other reliable sources tell me that the sound it was making was the starter would not catch. You would think that the car would kind of try to crank and make that er er er sound with a too big/too small gap. Since I put the new plugs in I decided to just pull the new ones and put the old ones back in. To factor out that was the source of the issue. The car started right up. Luckily the starter didnt have to come out. I hope this makes more sense. It was such a cluster :censored::censored::censored::censored: my head was spinning. The plugs were gapped to .054 so I am still confused about why it seemed to big.
Since I was about 160miles away from home visiting my brother I felt rushed to make sure it was running to get home tonight. The car made it without a hiccup.
I will be pulling the UIM again and putting plugs in later on with some others to help. I need an extra opinion on what I did wrong. If my post didnt make sense, sorry. It didnt make sense maybe because I was so confused as to why the starter would go bad when I never touched it. Or anything close to it.
I still have the autolite plugs and some of them looked like they had carbon build up and you could see the top of the plug had been burned or not as new as they used to be. I can take pics of the plugs tomorrow to show what I mean. Maybe 3 out 6 looked like this. The others looked new. I hope this helped on clarification.
 
if the car refuses to turn over again, try putting it in 3rd gear and rocking it backwards and forwards. If the starter is sticking, this will free it. You say the car started after you changed the plugs back to old ones..make sure the new plugs are the right ones for an SVT. The starter may need replacing or servicing.. G.
 
We actually tried push starting the car a couple times in different gears. I gave the part number for the autolites but I will check again. Im pretty sure the starter is just fine since the car started right up with the old plugs in.
 
The engine would not make a cranking sound. I had two other reliable sources tell me that the sound it was making was the starter....

After your latest post, I think, you had , what Big Jim coined "cylinder wash" The oil on the cylinder walls was not present, from the cleaning of the LIM with solvent, compression wasn't established so no starting of the engine. The engine cranks but makes a sound that is different than the normal sound. The engine is cranking faster than normal and fools you into thinking something is wrong with the starter. I was fooled by this when I did my cleaning and the car did eventually restart. The quick remedy is to remove the front three plugs and add a teaspoon or so of oil into the cylinders, reinstall plugs and try starting engine. The engine will run poorly untill the rear cylinders establish compression.

You don't have to remove the UIM to reinstall your new plugs just remove the coil pack, it's alot easier
 
You don't have to remove the UIM to reinstall your new plugs just remove the coil pack, it's alot easier

I like the sound of that. Taking off the UIM can almost be done with my eyes closed.

I did think about the how the oil not being there but I never did it.:troutslap:

Im going to double check the gap on the plugs before I reinstall and see if they start up. And if the car starts right up Ill know it was the lack of lube on the cylinder walls. That does make a lot more sense since I started by pulling everything off at night time and restarted in the morning.
 
No turn

No turn

I would suggest to test the hot lead to the starter for resistance. If the wire is corroded on the interior it will not allow enough power to turn the starter. Then I would look at the quality of the ground connections. My guess is that the plugs are a red herring and have nothing to do with the no start. In changing the plugs by removing the UIM you could have changed ground conditions. Just a Thought.
 
I don't buy that "cylinder wash" idea, you don't lose enough compression to stop engine starting unless motor already dead enough you shouldn't be working on it. Anybody here ever worked on 2 strokes? They run with almost no oil on cylinder walls at all. Take a well running one apart immediately after running it and tell me how much oil is on the rings or piston. Hardly anything, the lube is more gas than oil. Complicating things more is the fact that those motors have almost half the compression ratio to begin with that a 4 stroke does. Yet they start all day long just fine. What really happens is that excess gas wets down everything, all carbon and chamber surfaces. Plug too, starts shorting across the electrode porcelain and voltage drops like a rock. Extra volatile component of the fuel then throws off starting F/A ratio to where doesn't want to start easily. Ether, or starting fluid, will start a motor in this condition because it will light off with no compression and hardly any spark voltage. A plug shorting across porcelain will still light it off. There used to be this old woman lived next door, she was always flooding out her 350 chevy V-8, then would come over. "Please, can you get my car started?", you know the type. After several times I got pissed and refused to come to door when she knocked. After 2 days she got someone to come out and repair it, they gave up after a while and told her she needed new motor. I gave in when saw how unhappy she was, had pets at another home, they would starve. Realized previous guy had been pouring fuel in intake to crank, motor wouldn't even give a pop. Plugs totally wet, black. Pulled them and HEI cap/coil, wires, so wouldn't blow myself to smithereens. Whirled engine over a bunch, liquid fuel ejecting out of spark plug holes, what a joke. Wonder it didn't lock up and bend a rod. Blasted out remainder with portable airtank. Let the whole mess sit for an hour in the Texas sun to evap the fuel. Degreased the same plugs with acetone and filed on tips to make sharp new spots, regapped. Put all back together, shot a little ether in the carb, car cranked up in like 5 seconds. Ran like pure crap until got some temp in motor, and burned plugs a little cleaner, then it ran better and better, was idling pretty much right in 5 minutes of time. You can't get any more cylinder wash than that engine had, jack, and it still got up and running. They just get super :censored::censored::censored::censored::censored:y when you wet everything down. Now don't think I'm a champion of ether, because I'm not. I try to avoid using the stuff, however, it can be a VERY handy tool if you DON"T OVERUSE IT. All it's for is to provide the initial hit to get motor up and running for no more than 2-3 seconds. Use more than that amount, 1-2 second shot from the can, and you are ASKING FOR IT. If fuel system working, that short time enough to pump fuel from a mechanical fuel pump to engine, carb or FI will be working by then. Had a friend who rebuilt a Pontiac V-8 in a wagon, drove up to his shop seconds after he had blown up the new engine. Smoke still drifting out of all the holes in engine sides and pan. He used starting fluid to crank it, it would just pop a little before that. Ether at least got motor running for a few seconds at a time, he knew it had some type of a fuel problem but couldn't find it. Meanwhile kept using bigger and bigger shots of starting fluid thinking "It's almost running, a little more'll do it". He was leaning under hood when it blew, someone else cranking it for him. Wonder he didn't get really hurt, the noise wrecked his hearing for a month. Explosion broke 6 of 8 rods and all went through block/pan in various places. Later investigation showed fuel pump eccentric on camshaft nose was not tight, flopping loose, leading to just a little, erratic fuel supply. That's why wouldn't start in first place. Ether users beware, it can bite you HARD.
 
If you didn't even get the solenoid clicking, check for power at start on the smaller wire, that one powers up the solenoid. Checking starter out on floor, ground case to battery ground. Positive cable from battery plus to small wire for solenoid check, then put it on big lug for starter operation itself. Could have disturbed that smaller wire while messing with the intake.
 
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