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I think I've outgrown the Baers

Loco4G63 said:
Holy crap! That better stop on a dime....literally!:laugh:
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Nezerconezer said:
Or do a forward flip.
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mrrockwood said:
I just want to know what kind of power plant it has to need that kind of braking power.
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bishop375 said:
Those are great for when you need to have stopped 10 minutes ago. ;)
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Plastique_synthetiX said:
They do look cool, but definitely overkill, especially on a car that light. The brakes can only be as good as the tyres that are making contact with the road.

I'll just stick with my StopTechs.
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Why so so many people believe that more pistons = more braking power?

There are several primary factors that determine how much brake torque a particular setup can generate, and the # of pistons being used has never been one of them. Don't get me wrong, there are a number of good reasons for a multi-piston caliper design, but "brake power" isn't one of them.
 
Rara said:
Why so so many people believe that more pistons = more braking power?

There are several primary factors that determine how much brake torque a particular setup can generate, and the # of pistons being used has never been one of them. Don't get me wrong, there are a number of good reasons for a multi-piston caliper design, but "brake power" isn't one of them.
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Rara said:
Pad area isn't one of the primary factors for "braking power" either.
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care to enlighten anyone so they don't make the same mistake?


I don't understand the reasoning behind telling someone they're wrong without offering up the right info :shrug:
 
TGO said:
care to enlighten anyone so they don't make the same mistake?


I don't understand the reasoning behind telling someone they're wrong without offering up the right info :shrug:
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Well, I don't really have the time to go through a full brake system design class, plus it has been discussed here before . . . but, I'll hit a few highlights just for you.

The three main factors that control brake torque are:

1. Effective radius. This is basically the rotor (or even drum) diameter divided by two. To get very technical it is the distance from the center of rotation of the rotor/drum to the geometric center of the pad (or the surface of the shoe in the case of a drum setup). This determines the "lever arm" that the friction force has to work.

2. Friction couple. This is noted by the greek letter mu (looks like a u with a tail on the front too) and is a dimensionless unit that refers to the resistance to sliding motion between two materials / surfaces. In this case, the two surfaces are the pad face, and the rotor face. This factor is different for every combination of pad and rotor, and will even change as temperatures and other conditions change. Common modern mu values range from 0.35 to 0.60

3. Application pressure. The actual force resisting the sliding motion between the pad and rotor is determined by the amount of force (N) pressing the pad into the rotor times the friction couple (mu) , or Ff = mu * N. Obviously the force (N) is determined by a number of factors itself, all going back up through the caliper and actuation system. Sub factors include master cylinder to caliper piston area ratios, brake boost curves, pedal mechanical ratio, and how much pedal pressure is applied by the driver.


These three are the very basics of brake design. Multi-piston calipers and pad area and all the rest come into play for covering secondary factors, such as heat management, caliper stiffness, pad wear (both normal wear and undesirable taper wear) rotor wear, brake noise, brake dust, etc etc etc.
 
Fwiw, I've been out of the brake design stuff for a little over 2 years now, but that SilverSnake guy that posts every now and again still might just know a thing or two about brakes too. I'm sure he'll correct me if I have forgotten anything :D
 
Rara said:
Fwiw, I've been out of the brake design stuff for a little over 2 years now, but that SilverSnake guy that posts every now and again still might just know a thing or two about brakes too. I'm sure he'll correct me if I have forgotten anything :D
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You go the gist of it. I just posted a long responce in CC.com about Carbon vs. Ceramic rotors....took too much out of me. I need to get coffee before I post any more. ;)

-Todd
 
Silver Snake said:
You go the gist of it. I just posted a long responce in CC.com about Carbon vs. Ceramic rotors....took too much out of me. I need to get coffee before I post any more. ;)

-Todd
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I can't wait for these things to become more affordable. :(
 
TGO said:
they must really be expensive if you're waiting for them to become "affordable!"
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They cost an arm and a leg. :)

My stock AP Racing set is not bad. I'd prefer a matching set of non-crossdrilled rotors, at the very least. The weight savings of a good carbon rotor and monoblock calipers makes an incredible difference, especially on a lightweight car.
 
Big-Reds.jpg

:cool:
 
If anyone tries to claim those holes are cast in, they will be banned instantly. I'm sick of hearing it, lol.
 
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