Has anyone done a 3L PCM?

[SicSE]

Has anyone used a 3L PCM and MAFS along with injectors in a swap? In my quest to understanding the operation of the SE PCM, I've come to wonder if a 3L PCM may be a better starting point for tuning... provided that a CEL from no auto trans would be the only real problem, and that it could be tuned out with the PRP software.

 

[todras]

Why when the SVT PCM is far superior. It wouldn't work for a non ATX trans car either.

 

[SicSE]

Why when the SVT PCM is far superior. It wouldn't work for a non ATX trans car either.

Because the 3L PCM can be had for about $25. And I expect that the 3L base tune would be at least a LITTLE better than the SE, for a hybrid w/3L cams.

I expected a CEL for the non-ATX trans, but it wouldn't work at all?

 

[Pudmunkie]

Because the 3L PCM can be had for about $25. And I expect that the 3L base tune would be at least a LITTLE better than the SE, for a hybrid w/3L cams.

I expected a CEL for the non-ATX trans, but it wouldn't work at all?

Hybrid = 2.5 liter heads on a a 3 liter block. You'd be retarded to run 3l cams in that set up.

 

[SicSE]

Hybrid = 2.5 liter heads on a a 3 liter block. You'd be retarded to run 3l cams in that set up.

Then I'm retarded ... but yesterday, my retarded ass put down 177hp/188tq on the dyno. And guess what, I'm still using the 17lb injectors... and stock PCM! You probably think I'm SUPER retarded now huh? Wait, answer that in a different thread in the appropriate forum. It would be nice to leave THIS thread to the discussion of running a 3L PCM, injectors & MAFS.

 

[Pudmunkie]

Then I'm retarded ... but yesterday, my retarded ass put down 177hp/188tq on the dyno. And guess what, I'm still using the 17lb injectors... and stock PCM! You probably think I'm SUPER retarded now huh? Wait, answer that in a different thread in the appropriate forum. It would be nice to leave THIS thread to the discussion of running a 3L PCM, injectors & MAFS.

I'm trying to decipher this... You put down 177 hp 188 tq at the wheels in a 3 liter? Sounds pretty retarded to me. I put that down in my 2.5 :shrug: After all the threads on this forum, you decided to ignore all the good advice and put 3 liter cams into a 2.5 liter head?

 

[todras]

Then I'm retarded ... but yesterday, my retarded ass put down 177hp/188tq on the dyno. And guess what, I'm still using the 17lb injectors... and stock PCM! You probably think I'm SUPER retarded now huh? Wait, answer that in a different thread in the appropriate forum. It would be nice to leave THIS thread to the discussion of running a 3L PCM, injectors & MAFS.

Then go ahead and don't listen to any of us. Sounds like you've already closed your mind by running 3L cams! Why even post?

 

[SicSE]

you decided to ignore all the good advice and put 3 liter cams into a 2.5 liter head?

I was trying to be cool, but if y'all want to be dicks, I can play that game. What FACTUAL information do you have that concludes it is "retarded" to put 3L cams in a hybrid? And try to keep in mind that OPINIONS are like assholes.

So you put down 177/188 in an untuned 2.5L SE?

Then go ahead and don't listen to any of us. Sounds like you've already closed your mind by running 3L cams!

I take in everything offered and actually listen to the "intelligent" responses that come about. Someone calling me retarded for doing something that has NOTHING to do with this thread, is FAR from intelligent.

I'm just trying to seperate fact from opinion. You said that a 3L PCM "won't work", I asked you to explain why, because I didn't know that it wouldn't work... but you have yet to explain. Is that because you don't care to share, or because you don't know for a fact? I'd bet it's the latter. Or is it that it "won't work" in the same way that 17lb injectors "won't work" in a 3L? That was some of the "good advice" that I've received in the past.

Now who's close minded? The people that are bashing someone for doing things different than they would, or the person who is just trying to sort out?

 

[96BlackSE]

The 3L PCM can work but there is a tremendous amount of wiring that you would need to sort out.

The PCM pin outs are not the same so you would need to match up the pinouts on the PCM to the engine wiring. Then you will have an issue with PATs that you would have to sort out.

Either way since you have the 2.5 heads on there you are better off with the 2.5 PCM... If you had a full 3L I would understand although its not practical at all.

 

[Pudmunkie]

This is why its retarded:

• High compression - Using the 2.5 heads bumps up the compression, take advantage of it with some hot cams
• Pointless - You spend the time to change the timing components from small to big. I dont see the point when you go from a midrange cam to a midrange cam. You would have been better off just using your SE's cams and selling off the 3liter cams.

And you're right, I didnt put down those exact numbers in my untuned stock ish SVT. But to illustrate my point, Stoobie put down 175/175 in his 2.5 SE. So you picked up some tq from stock by upping the displacement, but you're still down about 20 hp and 10 tq from the average 3 liters

Im just curious why you decided to do that? After all the threads on cam choice, intake manifold choice etc. etc. Even the most die hard of oval port guys will tell you to match the cams to the intakes. 2.5 heads = split = SVT cams or SE cams if you had to.

Also, back to your first post. If you're planning on tuning the PCM, there is no point in going to a 3l PCM. Aside from all the wiring you would have to do, when you tune a pcm you... have the magic ability to alter the maps! jeez, any benefit from a 'starting point' you may have had from a 3l PCM is gone!

Finally, Im sorry if you took offense to my original comment.... You're not retarded, but your cam and engine choice are..., Yup opinions are like assholes, I've got mine.

 

[SicSE]

The PCM pin outs are not the same.

The ones that I checked were the same, but I didn't cover every one. I might map them out today at lunch if I get a chance. Thanks for the input. *thumbup*

Im just curious why you decided to do that?

I needed new tensioners & guides and the 3L stuff was cheaper. Plus I considered future serviceability if necessary.

Not to mention that with all the debate about the cams & their listed specs, I couldn't personally substantiate enough of a performance difference in the SVT cams to justify the extra expense.

 

[BrApple]

I couldn't personally substantiate enough of a performance difference in the SVT cams to justify the extra expense.

have you ever driven an SVT or a SE with SVT cams? couldn't substantiate enough performance difference


here is the difference the SVT PCM and 19# injectors made in my 2.5L (blue line is with the SVT PCM

and before SVT cams

and after SVT cams

There is way to much involved to make a 3L PCM work. I know you are doing all of this as cheap as possible but come on, sometimes you just have to spend the money and not monkey around with it and just do it right ....



btw no one ever said that you couldn't run 17# injectors in a 3L, its just not suggested ...

 

[SicSE]

have you ever driven an SVT or a SE with SVT cams?

I've driven a mostly-stock SVT.

There is way to much involved to make a 3L PCM work. I know you are doing all of this as cheap as possible but come on, sometimes you just have to spend the money and not monkey around with it and just do it right.

I DO appreciate your input man, but the "right" way to do a hybrid is completely subjective, isn't it?... I was really just curious if anyone had done the 3L PCM, MAF & injectors.

btw no one ever said that you couldn't run 17# injectors in a 3L, its just not suggested ...

I would have to try and dig it up because it was sometime last year. I can't remember who posted it, but I was told initially that the 17lb injectors would not work and I was bashed for even suggesting that I might try it.

 

[Pudmunkie]

ppl told you not to use 17 lb injectors because you should be outflowing them. as for not having enough evidence... id say 177 hp vs 200 is more than enough....

 

[Blackcoog]

ppl told you not to use 17 lb injectors because you should be outflowing them. as for not having enough evidence... id say 177 hp vs 200 is more than enough....

I'd say the stock SE intakes/heads is the reason for the 177hp not the 17lb injectors. It's easy enough to test though. Assuming he had his air/fuel checked on the dyno he could post up his graph and you can verify they were supplying enough fuel.

 

[SicSE]

ppl told you not to use 17 lb injectors because you should be outflowing them. as for not having enough evidence... id say 177 hp vs 200 is more than enough....

The injectors are flowing enough for commanded richer than 10:1 A/F. If I was running out of injector, that A/F could not be sustained.

So you're saying that a 3L or hybrid swap should put down 200hp untuned?

I'd say the stock SE intakes/heads is the reason for the 177hp not the 17lb injectors. It's easy enough to test though. Assuming he had his air/fuel checked on the dyno he could post up his graph and you can verify they were supplying enough fuel.

I'm running the SVT intakes. My runs are on a computer at work so I can't post them until tomorrow.

 

[biminiLX]

This is now way off the original topic, but to go back you should be able to run an ATX PCM with a MTX and be OK with the SCT tuning. Mustang guys do it no problem.
-J

 

[BrApple]

This is now way off the original topic, but to go back you should be able to run an ATX PCM with a MTX and be OK with the SCT tuning. Mustang guys do it no problem.
-J

almost the case with this car. in the atx->mtx swaps done using the atx harness the car will not rev above 4krpm ... and there are a few other things that you need to hack to make it work. best is to use the correct mtx harness and pcm ...

 

[SicSE]

It looks like it stays at 10:1 because the computer hooked up to the dyno only goes down to 10:1.

 

[KAOS_3.0]

uh, dont 2.5SE and 3.0 cams have the same profile?

SVT cams give a longer duration, but the same lift.

only higher lift is from the follower ratio with late 3L followers.

at least thats what I've seen/read