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E-85 Compatibility

M

mrbnatural

New CEG'er
Joined
Dec 11, 2007
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Hi, I've got a 1999 Contour SE with the four cylinder automatic engine in it, I searched the forum but couldn't find an answer...so I guess I'll ask! :D Recently a bunch of E-85 stations have opened up close to me, and I'd like to take part in kicking the oil companies' butt for awhile... Will running E-85 in my car cause any problems? I'm already doing a mixture of E10 + E85 that comes out to around 30% ethanol, and have actually experienced some better performance...just slightly quicker acceleration and smoother shifting. But will this mixture, or a full E85 mixture, cause any damage to my engine due to it's different burn temperature? On the e85fuel website, it lists a few Taurus models of the same year (and previous) as compatible, so I am just hoping the Contour is also.......


Other than that, glad to be on the forum, I've had my Contour about a year and love it... I think more than anything, the coffee-mug compatible cup holder. Never had a car that could decently hold an 8oz mug. I suppose that shows you how superficial I can be... :D Nevermind that the car's got 113K miles and hasn't had any problem with it other than a dead battery. Who cares? I've got three cup holders that can fit coffee mugs!
 
mrbnatural said:
slightly quicker acceleration and smoother shifting. !
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What would the type of fuel powering a car have anything to do with how the car shifts?

And welcome! :)



I haven't done much research on the e85, but it is popping up all over the place. I will look into it, but I don't think I would run it in my car...
 
not sure about compatability but lets not forget that you will not get as far on a tank of E85 as you do with your normal gas ...
 
When using E-85 the user will notice a 3-5% horsepower inscrease. They will also notice that their gas mileage has dropped to about 80% of what is normal.
 
There are risks of degrading some of the fuel lines and components, as well as excessive valve and valve seat wear with use of E85 on a car not originally designed for it.
 
I would not run E85 unless the motor was made for it, there is a reason they have specific E85 compatible motors on some fords. As for what all those may be, I am not 100% sure on, but I would not try my luck. If was set for E85 it would say on your gas cap, normally in green letters.And I have no idea how that would effect your shifting.
 
I'd say theres little to no risk of damaging the engine internals, however theres a good chance you might corrode your hoses and seals. Also power might go down just because your tune is going to be leaner than it is stock (same volume vs air, less carbon to combust though) and your fuel mileage will go down.

On the plus side it has a higher octane rating than straight gas, so if you tune for it you can net more power than gas, but thats an extra expense and on a NA motor its probably not very significant.

All in all unless its at least 20-30% cheaper than gas I wouldn't bother anyway.
 
when we are visiting relatives in rural Iowa we see E85 a lot. once my dad put it in by accident in my moms 04 Toyota highlander v6. now that car says up to 10%, but i did yell at my dad. the car did not run any different as in running bad or noticing power differences. but he will never do that again. i was surprised nothing happened. i know a ton of people in Iowa run E85 in there cars that are not supposed to run it. I'm not sure of the long term effects but they cant be good. all in all just run what your car is meant to run and nothing else unless you want possible problems down the road.
 
Welcome.

Cars designed for E85 fuel have more robust rubber and plastic (and IIRC some engine components which are specially lined) which come in contact with the fuel. Fuel injector and nose rings are two such components I can think of, off hand.

The Contour was not designed for E85. You will most likely have issues showing up very soon if you use E85.
 
catfish said:
I'd say theres little to no risk of damaging the engine internals,
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I'd say if you don't know what you are talking about, you probably shouldn't throw inaccurate statements out there. My day job these days is designing engine valves for new engines. E85 fueled vehicles require different material selection or different processing of both the valves and valve seats compared to gasoline fueled engines in order to keep the valve and seat wear to a respectable level. The same thing happened when the US switched from leaded gasoline to unleaded, and harder seat inserts were required to prevent significant valve and/or seat wear.
 
your biggest issue will be the high content of ethanol eating away at the seals in the fuel line. flex fuel vehicles (vehicles designed to run on either regualar or e85) use a different type of seal to prevent this. also as Rara stated the valves and valve seats will be different. other differences will be the injectors, the pump, the tune, etc. FFV also typically have an "octane sensor" that will detec when you are putting in E85 and change the tune accordingly.

as someone who just graduated from auto tech school a year ago you should never run anything more than E10 in a car not designed for it. the contour is NOT a FFV.
 
.....and to add to all this, I have had a small handfull of customers come in with n on-e85 cars that they had filled up with it. SOME of those cars actually had check engine lights on and when scanned, they showed lean condition codes. Also other complaintrs I have heard are poor gas mileage and even loss of power but that might be in their heads or at least from their often mistaken "butt dyno's"
 
In response to the fuel cost comments, I live in Iowa, so...
E85 costs 1.99 at my closest station, regular Unleaded costs 3.07, so that's a significant difference that makes up the decrease in gas mileage. However, if you're saying it'll kill my seals, no go. Guess I'll quit before there's problems.

I don't know why it would shift smoother, maybe it's unrelated. Ok, DUH, it's unrelated. I do know that when I used to punch the accelerator from idle, or from a higher gear, when it shifted there would be a 1-2 second delay, which I thought was crazy. My crappy Saturn didn't even do that. But now it doesnt delay. Maybe it's just the winter? Wait? Wouldn't that make it worse???
 
Yeah Government subsidies help a lot in purchasing E-85. Put again you should be able to gain a small Hp boost. So if your running a drag for pinks, hit up the E-85. Except that with cars that aren't designed to run it, it could slow you car down because it could mess with different parts. I am not exactly sure. And I bet if you put it in your car once it shouldn't do anything, but after a while it might start to wear it down.

I have an idea. Some one buy a crap 200 dollar car and drive it on E-85 and see what happens...
 
Fuel system component compatibility and valve/valve seat issues aside, the engine will run way too lean. You may get away with that for a while with light engine loads, but under heavy load, you risk severe meltdown damage of pistons, rings, valves, and even aluminum heads. It just isn't worth the risk.

If you want an idea of the type of damage it can cause, find the posted photos in the old forums from when Buckshot tried to do a dyno run on a blown 3.0 before doing a tune to dial in the ignition timing while under boost.

You can have the same meltdown from running drastically lean under heavy load.

I really don't recommend it. It's like playing on the freeway.
 
Rara said:
I'd say if you don't know what you are talking about, you probably shouldn't throw inaccurate statements out there. My day job these days is designing engine valves for new engines. E85 fueled vehicles require different material selection or different processing of both the valves and valve seats compared to gasoline fueled engines in order to keep the valve and seat wear to a respectable level. The same thing happened when the US switched from leaded gasoline to unleaded, and harder seat inserts were required to prevent significant valve and/or seat wear.
Click to expand...

Gas is already 10% ethanol these days, and while ethanol is more corrosive than petrol its not going to eat through the engine block or valves. Sure its going to reduce the life of various parts, but theres a hundred other things that are going to go wrong and break first by running e85 (seals, gaskets, rubber) and plenty of reasons not to (fuel mileage, tune, etc.) puts a slightly decreased engine life pretty low on my list of reasons why its a bad idea.
 
Trying to stay away from my personal political views on E85, which is tough cause I think it's pretty much a scam. especially when you see the politics of the cafe credits the big 3 get compared to the availability and use of E85.

Anyway! back on point...is anyone sure of the differences between a regular auto and a flex fuel? I've read that it only cost automakers around $50 more to produce a flex fuel. that leads me to believe it's not much more that some heavier duty lines, filters and computer tune....
 
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