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turbo question

S

steebsSVT

CEG'er
Joined
Jun 3, 2007
Messages
258
Location
Rochester, MI
oh no, the contour is sick.

i've been talking to reebs about this a little, but we've both been busy with school so it's hard to get together and come to a conclusion, maybe someone can help me sort this out.

for the few weeks before i garaged the contour for the winter and whenever i take it out to keep the fluids moving, there has been oil burning out the tailpipes. here's the facts:
1. it doesn't burn at idle, aka no boost
2. it burns worse at higher RPM's
3. it's not as bad as i turn the boost controller down to lower numbers
4. there is a fine mist of oil on the BOV and the engine area around where it ejects.

now, from my limited turbo knowledge this sounds like the seal is leaking on the cold side of the turbo and running through the engine / getting shot out the BOV, am I right? and does this mean a whole turbo rebuild?
 
i haven't has a chance to pull anything off yet, my garage is too small. i was hoping for some idea of what to look for when i do. and no, it's not a massive amount of oil, just a fine mist builds up whenever i drive. but the cloud that comes out the back can get pretty intense when the turbo kicks in.
 
I had similar issues when my PCV valve was bad.

Either find one for the duratec that seals when you blow through it or buy one specifically for a boosted car, popular options are the turbo thunderbird and lightning.

I pulled 3-4 out of the box at the dealer and ALL, when brand new, did NOT seal. Had to go through another 3-4 at a Pep Boys to find one that sealed. Oil out the BOV gone!

Now, it could be turbo seals leaking...but i think that setup has the proper restrictor on the oil supply line so it should not be an issue. Its worth a look though, too much oil vapor effectively kills the detonation resistance of your fuel.
 
I picked out the best pcv I could find during that build, but it would hurt to try another one. The oil feed line does have the restrictor at the turbo drilled 1/16 inch iirc. It could be a little oil blowing by the seals, but I highly doubt and entire turbo rebuild would be needed with a turbo that has very low miles. It was brand new when I put it in. Anyways, if you say it started to burn oil at higher rpm, when oil pressure is highest in the oil feed line, it could be all that extra oil backing up from the oil drain line causing too much oil pressure around the bearing for the seals to stay completely sealed... we could first try by upgrading the size of the oil drain line to make sure all that oil is getting out of the turbo bearing. I think you said you checked the pcv, didn't you!??!
 
ya, I was going to do that but I was too lazy at the time and then I went out of town for a month. Apparently I dont understand where the pcv valve functions in the order of things, let me go educate myself on that real quick and get back to you.
 
Ya, I'm clearly missing something here. Can someone educate me real quick about why the pcv would cause oil to come out the bov? Wouldn't it only affect things very close to the intake, or if its too complicated just tell me to trust you, whatever. Anyways the drain line makes sense too, is there any way to check that or just get a bigger and hope for the best? Also I've read a couple of things about a very dirty air filter causing similar problems, it looked decently clean bit who knows, is there any way to get the filter off to clean it without removing the whole front end?
 
FWIW, BADSVT had a PCV problem and when his Piping came off (and back on) It had a good amount oil on it where it was coming out of the BOV.
 
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If there's oil in the inlet it will end up coming out the BOV even if the pcv feeds after the BOV because the BOV is opening to vent out the air that just slammed into a closed TB and is pressure spiking.

Not to mention that a leaky PCV could be causing pressurized air into the crank and forcing very oily air back into the inlet via the valve cover line.
 
your from michigan. its cold out, right? turbo guys run thicker oil, right? (typically) so you may have higher oil pressure because the oil is running a little cooler and the drainback is just a little too small for that lower temperature of the oil (higher oil pressure in some cases will occur) if you let it sit too long could it have dried out the turbo seals?
 
TRicker said:
your from michigan. its cold out, right? turbo guys run thicker oil, right? (typically) so you may have higher oil pressure because the oil is running a little cooler and the drainback is just a little too small for that lower temperature of the oil (higher oil pressure in some cases will occur) if you let it sit too long could it have dried out the turbo seals?
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You are correct about the oil pressure being higher during cold temps, and yes I ran very thick oil (Royal Purple 10w40). I doubt sitting for a few weeks messed up anything in the turbo because steebs starts it all the time and such. I just think that either oil pressure is too high during these temps for the size of the drain line or the pcv isn't sealing well. I wonder if you could put a different restrictor on the oil line during very cold temps like this to cut down on the oil going to the bearing.... so basically use a resistor with a tad smaller hole. I know the turbo bearing doesn't need a very big hole at all in the feed line due to how much oil pressure our engines already have.
 
I'm guessing its going to be the pcv most likely. The oil pressure hasn't changed significantly over the seasons (starts around 80, drops to 20-30 range) I'm also wondering if something may have dumped a bunch originally and its still burning off. The first time I noticed it it was really bad, I lost around 1 quart in a few days, but since then I have not noticed any measurable oil loss. Either way I'm going to replace the pcv, can't hurt right?
 
Just make certain that the 'new' PCV seals very well before installing it. Even brand new ones can seal very poorly.
 
ok, been working on the car for a few hours now taking a break. replaced the PCV and hasn't helped. someone help me out real quick, should the PCV have an airtight seal? cause i figured it would but the guy at autozone looked at me like i was an idiot when i asked, who's right? also i've found smoke is coming from the turbo, i'm pulling that later and going to check the oil return line to make sure that's clear.
 
steebsSVT said:
ok, been working on the car for a few hours now taking a break. replaced the PCV and hasn't helped. someone help me out real quick, should the PCV have an airtight seal? cause i figured it would but the guy at autozone looked at me like i was an idiot when i asked, who's right? also i've found smoke is coming from the turbo, i'm pulling that later and going to check the oil return line to make sure that's clear.
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re route the PCV line so that it goes through an oil separator and then into the intake tract BEFORE the turbo. doing this will always keep at least a small vacuum on the crankcase as well as not require you to find a PCV valve that has a perfect/near perfect seal.

If you dont want to reroute it then you need to either add a one way check valve to the line or find a PCV valve that gets a perfect seal (or as close as possible to one)
 
well, more bad news. there's smoke coming from the crankcase out the dipstick hole and the oil fill hole when i have them open. it's a regular puffing, 1 per engine rotation. i'm assuming the PCV isn't venting correctly, that's granted but is that a sign of a bad ring or something? i don't see how that would be possible as the engine is basically brand new and i baby it. anyways if anyone has an idea about that, i'd really like to not have to tear down the engine.
 
steebsSVT said:
well, more bad news. there's smoke coming from the crankcase out the dipstick hole and the oil fill hole when i have them open. it's a regular puffing, 1 per engine rotation. i'm assuming the PCV isn't venting correctly, that's granted but is that a sign of a bad ring or something? i don't see how that would be possible as the engine is basically brand new and i baby it. anyways if anyone has an idea about that, i'd really like to not have to tear down the engine.
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First sign of ring land broken is the smoke begins out of nowhere you have unusual oil leaks too. The next sign is that if you put your hand over the oil cap hole and fell alot of air then your seal is going due to the ring land not sealing. So next you need to do a compression check and at best due a leak down test if you are still worried. Joey
 
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