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timing marks?

Don't know if mine will have the spring in it. Early ones didn't, as I understand it, but I'll order the gates kit. What else does one need: valve cover gasket, crank pulley bolt, timing cover gasket?

I know his will alll seem simple after I've done it but you know how it is....... until you do it, it is still a mystery.... LOL

AF
 
Aussie Ford said:
Don't know if mine will have the spring in it. Early ones didn't, as I understand it, but I'll order the gates kit. What else does one need: valve cover gasket, crank pulley bolt, timing cover gasket?

I know his will alll seem simple after I've done it but you know how it is....... until you do it, it is still a mystery.... LOL

AF
Click to expand...
the only thing you need is the timing kit and valve cover gasket (unless is been replaced recently and then you could probably get by without replacing it). the crank bolt is not TTY and there is no timing belt cover gasket.
 
Thanks for the info my friend,

I'll get the kit ordered up today, but I'm off on vacation for a couple of weeks so install will be a bit out there.

Regards,
AF
 
Lol well my 96 had one, but you definitely don't need the spring for the tensioner, really.

I'm pretty sure the cam gap is also 3/16", as I guessed. We've been using a 1/8" piece of angle iron and that works good enough. They can be lined up by eyeballing them at the ends :shrug:

Also, I suggest using thread locker on the crank bolt, as a precautionary measure.
 
You are fooling yourself using 1/8" stock to time the cams. Cams can be off 15-20 degrees doing that. The correct tool thickness is .200", 3/16" is .187". Buy a cheapie $5 feeler gauge set from like Autozone, pull the .012" and .013" feelers out and put one each on top of a piece of 3/16" square keyway stock from Home Depot, cost maybe $3. Make keyway piece maybe 8 1/2" to 9" wide to cover distance from valve cover side to side. Slide keyway in cams with the two feeler pieces one on each cam and you have a PERFECT fitting camtool with virtually ZERO play. You may not need tensioner spring, but recognize also that these take VERY LITTLE tension, almost none. If you are tensioning by hand you will almost always be too tight, the belt will either walk and chew up on end or not make maximum lifespan. On the ones I've seen, once belt has gone a long life, the tension is so low that you can pull belt off by moving it sideways on pulley. It's that loose. Basically zero slack but zero tension too. That's how belt lives so long.
 
Aussie Ford said:
So what do you do to set the belt tention w/o the spring and not over tighten it?
Click to expand...
There should be about 1/4" of play up and down on the belt between the cams after tension is set. The top of the tensioner is hooked onto the engine, and then bolts it. What you can do is bolt in the tensioner at the "least tension" setting, and install the timing belt, making sure the teeth line up correctly on the cams and yadda yadda. When you do this, the play between the cams will be about 1.5" or so...pretty loose. Loosen the tensioner bolt, and use an allen wrench to adjust the tensioner, then tighten the tensioner bolt. Then double-check the tension as I had mentioned early between the cams. If it is too tight or too loose, follow the same procedure and check again.
 
You're kidding, right?? One could very conceivably set tension like that and then when engine rolled around once have so loose it would fall off. If set with camtool in place the tension could be trapped between cams, look correct, and still have slack between cam and crank sprocket say if crank backed away from the crankpin tool while putting on belt. Tensioning tensioner might not pull it out since would have to pull hard enough to rotate crank back against pin tool, meaning way too much tension on tensioner. The ONLY way this could come out right would be to finish up by pulling all tools and rotating crank in normal direction 2-3 revolutions to average out the belt. If still OK after that and all tools still go in proper when set back on the marks, then probably OK. One should also bear in mind that one guy's idea of 1/4" play is different from another's since it's a rubber belt. Impossible to quantify just what '1/4"' is without knowing how much force exerted on rubber belt to get that 1/4". Makes getting that spring seem so much easier way to do the job................
 
The spring has NOTHING to do with the tension in the belt. Zero. Zilch. Nada. And how do you expect to set the tension without the tensioner? As long as the cam gears haven't been removed, they are only gonna line up one way as long as some sort of cam alignment tool is used, whether it is 3/16" of 2/10", so applying the belt loose and then tightening is no different than applying the belt "tighter" and then tightening.

If I'm so totally wrong then my timing must be completely off. :shrug:
 
Hmmmmm....pray tell, what is the spring for??? Also, go back and READ THE POST AGAIN, the english is clear. No one ever said to set tension without tensioner. Also, the slop acquired from using 1/8" cam bar means you could very easily be off on timing, just because you can't tell the loss in performance does not mean it's not there. You also STILL miss what I'm saying, witness the last sentence:

'so applying the belt loose and then tightening is no different than applying the belt "tighter" and then tightening.'

The statement alone is correct, but STILL has no valid meaning since BOTH ways can be incorrect. If you do it like that, seems right, and ROLL THE ENGINE AROUND several times and RECHECK AND IT'S WRONG, makes all your effort wasted. If you want to GUARANTEE your work, the ONLY way you can do it is to roll the engine around several times and RECHECK TO MAKE SURE SETTING IS GOOD. Rolling engine averages out the tension to show where really at. You can be damn sure engine will do it anyway at first startup. This stuff where you put on the belt in one position and do not lift a finger to recheck work by rolling around is why so many people get into trouble here. It ties in with the insistance on loosening the cam pulleys, someone (Ford!! of all people) thinks that makes it easier but it does not, only introduces more room for error. I NEVER loosen the cam pulleys, timing is GUARANTEED automatically especially with VCT, since only error now possible is one of an entire tooth, easy to catch that one. Kinda like other twin cam engines which do not loosen cam pulleys to change belt, you leave cam bolted in position to sprocket to PRESERVE THE POSITION AND GUARANTEE PROPER TIMING.

Let's go back to the spring. What's it for? I'll be back in 24 hours to read your answer..................................meanwhile beware that big black hole you are about to fall into.
 
It is standard procedure to roll the engine over and recheck the cam alignment afterwards. As I stated before, as long as the cam gears are not loosened, and the tension is set correctly, and the teeth match up where they should, then the timing will be correct. Timing stays preserved as you said, and as I said previously. People make Zetec timing out to be a big deal, but it is honestly a joke! As for the spring on the tensioner, I have NO idea what purpose it could serve. All I know is that it certainly doesn't seem to be totally necessary.
 
the spring and pin are suppose to be used to set the tension on the belt with the tensioner.

I'll try to get the pre98 instructions posted back up again from the shop manual.
 
Well I have ordered the Gates kit and Fel Pro valve cover gasket from Rock Auto. Total was $113.12 shipped. Then I ordered the spring from Tousley Ford for $8.79, but I couldn't make my self pay $9+ for a bolt that I can get from the hardware store around the cornor for 50 cents. My question is does anyone know how long that bolt is, I know it is metric and they have quite a selection of that.

BTW they charged me $0 for shipping on that.

By compairson Team Ford priced the items separately:
the tensioner is $69.52, 48mm pulley is $52.14 60mm is $54.62 the the valve cover gasket is 19.85.... now did you notice they didn't even give me a price on the timimg belt! and wanted another $20+ to ship the stuff. Tousley Ford parts were similar priced but a bit less and shipping was less too. So if you were going to get Ford stuff Tousley offered the best deal...... FYI I was told the Ford's tentioner included the spring and bolt but I'm not actually sure they knew what I was talking about at Team Ford.

Bill J is not part of the parts dept anymore and so when you contact them you are just another customer that walked in through the web door. My email was totally ignored for several days then I called them and OH Hey they found it..... at that time I was told to just order the parts off the web site..... then I got an email from someone named Pat Kelly with the prices above. I think he is the fellow that told me, when I called to find out why I hadn't heard from them, to go the the web site to order..... anyway the whole thing was not in accordance with how things have been done in the past and I didn't get the feeling this fellow knew much about our cars. Then he tried to blame it on Bill because he is on vacation and didn't pass on the email. What I didn't tell him was I used the site to contact them and did not email Bill J direct! It will be a very long time before I contact them again. In the past you could call up Bill chat a bit he'd tell you what was needed and then when he could send them out and what your CEG discount was. If he didn't have the part he'd scour the country to find it for you and then tell you where to order it or get it for you. It ain't that way anymore, might as well go to your local stealership and get ripped off there at least you don't have to pay shipping..... LOL

AF
 
The spring is indeed used to tension the belt. To help prevent those that second guess the factory and think THEY know just how tight the belt should be. I worked in the printing field for many years around all types of cogged belt driven equipment. If there's one thing I found, it's that most people have a tendency to way overtighten that type of belt, probably falling back on V belt experience. Cogged belts do not have to be nearly as tight in most instances, tight kills the daylights out of belt life. The spring used in this instance and also the tensioner assembly itself on post '98 models will seem to tension way too little but will work like gangbusters. My view is that the tension is low enough that when belt stretches near end of life there is almost NONE on but to keep slack out. The last two heavy mileage ones I did, I pulled belt off by working it sideways without loosening a single thing. Both the engines were running fine with it like that.
 
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