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The surging is back... but have some codes

K

KerryKool

Hard-core CEG'er
Joined
Sep 29, 2004
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Location
Tampa, FL
Well at a car meet a couple of weeks ago my car decides to do the surging. And what I mean by surging is that at a low rpm the car increases the rpm and backs it down again rapidly for a number of times. At the meet we cleaned the EGR out and I drove the 2hr trip home without a hitch and this past week it was working fine. I also read some codes there too: 33, 335, and now I get 332. These are telling me the EGR is pretty messed up. I barely made it to work to day and gave it time to cool off, but leaving from work it stalled out going into reverse and the second try it had hard time starting and trouble keeping idle, I had a code there but couldn't read it.

I'm guessing the EGR is toast, but what else could be wrong. The car is still at work and will be towed to a shop tommorrow morning. What else should I look for?

Thanks, -Kerry
 
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Just an update, the mechanics at the shop are having a hard time replicating the symptoms. They noticed the hard to start and noticed the rough idle but not the bucking/surging I had. They're temped to bring it out on the road but don't want to be stranded if it starts acting up.

I also noticed alot of other threads about the same problems, mainly about the EGR and/or vacuum lines. I also had a wierd dream that it ended up being a vacuum line, so the next time the shop calls me I'll ask if they check the lines.
 
A very interesting twist. I just called them and they said the EGR and lines were fine but they found out what might be causing the problem, the MAF. They unpluged it when the car was having the symptoms and the car ran perfect, supposedly without a code, they plug it back in, symptoms are back. They are baffled why they don't get a code after unpluging the MAF. AFAIK, I have one unique contour.

Any ideas?
 
It very well could be the MAF acting up. You dont by chance have a K&N filter installed? Have they pulled the EGR valve to see if they can clean out the passages?
 
I have a K/N panel filter, but it looked fine last time I checked it. I'm not sure what they did to the EGR, but we cleaned it out at the car meet a few weeks ago. They're going to get a replacement MAF in the morning and see if it does any better.
 
I think the thing is the oil from the K&N filter sometimes messes up the MAF, although I've never experienced that on several cars.

Mike
 
mrutkaus said:
I think the thing is the oil from the K&N filter sometimes messes up the MAF, although I've never experienced that on several cars.
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I've experienced it a few times now, 3/4 times on a Ford. Get a can of MAF contact cleaner before buying a whole new MAF sensor and get rid of that K&N if cleaning the MAF solves the problem.
 
I guess it wasn't the MAF. Now they have no clue what the problem is. He called me earlier and said they cannot find what is causing the problem. They said to take it to Ford now, they have done what they could. He mentioned it might be a computer problem. They're not going to charge me, but I'm sure Ford will gladly take my money.

I'm starting to think my car has an expriation date program in..
 
So unplugging the MAF no longer smooths the car out? And you dont have any obvious vacuum leaks hissing away?
 
I'm going to find out now, I'm heading out there to get the details and I'll report back in awhile. I really hope its just a vacuum leak they over looked.
 
Well they did everything they could do and couldn't find the problem. I towed it to a Ford Dealer and right after I described the symptoms, the service guy mention the fuel filter/pump maybe at fault. I was actually think that on my way to the dealership. All I know is that I got one messed up ride and a soon to be empty pocket.
 
Well troubling news... its going to cost $2,390 to fix my car.:nonono:

What he has told me the the fuel pump, MAF sensor, timing belt(pullies + tensioner), and a IAC motor all need to be replaced. First of all WTF is an IAC motor, he said something about it connects to the PCM and connection was bad. Timing belt was missing a few teeth, but was replaced at Ford less than 20k miles ago. Fuel pump and MAF is easy and about time to replace anyway.

I love how Ford loves to rape people everytime they get a chance. And get this, I told him not to fix it and I'll have it towed to my house and I'll get the parts and do it myself. He then tells me it is drivable in the condition its in.

Well at least I know whats wrong, unforunately it costs $400 to tell me that.:blackeye:
 
Yep, car is back at my house and I'm in the process of fixing it. Fuel pump and filter is first, then IAC and last timing belt. I'm only going to replace the timing belt if I'm still having problems after the IAC is replaced.

Tomorrow I'm picking up the pump and filter at advance, autozone or napa, whoever has it first. Testing it and ordering the IAC if still having problems.

I'll let everyone know what fixes the problem.:cool:
 
An update:

Replaced the fuel pump, filter and IAC. The car idles fine but it dies when I put it into Drive. Every other gear is fine, even the lower 1st and 2nd gears. I'm very confused and hoping for something simple to be wrong. I still get a 33 code for a EGR problem.
 
KerryKool said:
An update:

Replaced the fuel pump, filter and IAC. The car idles fine but it dies when I put it into Drive. Every other gear is fine, even the lower 1st and 2nd gears. I'm very confused and hoping for something simple to be wrong. I still get a 33 code for a EGR problem.
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If you have not driven it yet I would do that.n Sometimes you need to drive it after so many components have been replaced for the computer to relearn where it is at, so to speak.
 
I did drive it around the block yesturday and it drove just fine. This was when the car was cold, once it warmed up I had the issues.

I'm not sure what it could be. I read up on the MLPS sensor that could go bad but its looking like a torque converter issue more and more.:blackeye:
 
KerryKool said:
I did drive it around the block yesturday and it drove just fine. This was when the car was cold, once it warmed up I had the issues.

I'm not sure what it could be. I read up on the MLPS sensor that could go bad but its looking like a torque converter issue more and more.:blackeye:
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Check the PCV valve. They are a pain in the butt to get to on the Zetec, but if it is stuck open or flowing too much, that could cause all of your problems. If you cant get the PCV valve out easily, take off the oil cap when it is running, if there is excessive vacuum there (sucks the palm of your hand right in) the PCV is bad.

If the torque converter were the problem you would not be able to make it idle in gear at all. Does it feel like a manual transmission that you just dump the clutch on as soon as you put it in gear? If it does not 'hard' stall, the torque converter is not the issue. It should also set a code for that.

You also state you are getting an egr code; check that system out. EGR can cause lots of wierd driveability problems. Make sure it is not sticking open, disconect the vacuum to the egr and see if that helps, etc.
 
I'll check to see if I have excess vacuum from the oil cap now and edit in a bit. Unfortunately I dont know exactly what a dumped clutch feels like. I'm sure what I'm feeling is similar but can't be sure.

I have checked out the EGR system. Took it off and cleaned it out. Checked it with the suck test and made the car stall. The DPFE sensor was replaced temporarly only to get another code and original is back in working fine, or so it seems. The only thing that may be wrong is the EGR solenoid. I haven't replaced that but might.

Edit: After checking for a vacuum from the oil cap, there was none. In fact there was air coming out of the oil cap. I'll check it again just to be in a bit. Right now I'm doing KOER tests and see what comes back code wise.

Edit2: Code is still 33 for an EGR problem. Is it possible for the EGR solenoid will give this code? After looking through the codes there is a code for the TC to be in lock-up(39) but I have yet to recieve this code.

I appreciate all the help!
 
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