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Should I claybar again?

G Stone

CEG'er
Joined
Sep 9, 2003
Messages
241
Location
Sauk Rapids, MN
I clayed my car probably around 3 months ago and it got off all the water spots, dirt, etc. Now I see that there are water spots on the car again after I washed and dryed it. I thought claying the car and then putting wax (cleaner wax) over it would prevent this? Should I clay my car again and do a 3 step wax process to help reduce the need to clay so frequently?
 
Claying is good but to much is not, When you say wax then cleaner wax was it cleaner wax or wax, there's a difference..i dont think you waxed it hence why its starting to show again. but this is how it should be done

Clay
Cleaner wax
sealant
wax
 
Claying is good but to much is not, When you say wax then cleaner wax was it cleaner wax or wax, there's a difference..i dont think you waxed it hence why its starting to show again. but this is how it should be done

Clay
Cleaner wax
sealant
wax
Damn, I just used Meguiars Cleaner Wax and ended right there. What would I use for a sealant made by Meguiars? I have Gold Class for the final wax. I didn't know the steps :(
 
Meguires has a great system.

1. Paint Cleaner
2. Polish
3. Sealant

All the bottles are numbered too
 
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Damn, I just used Meguiars Cleaner Wax and ended right there. What would I use for a sealant made by Meguiars? I have Gold Class for the final wax. I didn't know the steps :(


You really dont need the sealant, it just helps, im not sure of any Mequiars sealant but i use the Klasse, you can find it on ebay cheap, while your on ebay check out S100, this wax ROCKS the house..
 
Meguiar's sealant's in order of my preference:

#21
#20
ColoRx
NXT

Gold Class or #26 are excellent choices for the LSP.

Cleaner waxes do provide some protection, but it's a good idea to top them w/ something else.

In terms of using the clay bar too much, it only removes stuff bonded to the clear coat (which includes wax). As long as the clay is clean, doing it once a month wouldn't be a problem.
 
Claying is good but to much is not, When you say wax then cleaner wax was it cleaner wax or wax, there's a difference..i dont think you waxed it hence why its starting to show again. but this is how it should be done

Clay
Cleaner wax
sealant
wax


That sounds a little overboard and redundant. If you're using a cleaner wax, there's very likely little benefit to top it with a sealant and then again with a pure wax. At most, I'd do sealant or wax -- but not both. And use a spray wax after washing to help maintain the protection.

G Stone, what color are we talking about? How's the finish?
 
Color and condition of paint and clearcoat are very crucial in choosing waxes....

On the generic side, and for some great over the counter stuff
My choices and what I used to use before internet shopping are Clay, #7 Show car glaze, #21 Sealant and top her off with some Gold Class.
The numbers there are correct, but the names might have been changed to protect the innocent, or i can't remember right now.

I have to agree with Kev on the Klasse products though, you can't go wrong. If you're gonna order it Order both Klasse AIO, Klasse Sealant, and the P21S (Or S100 from a local Harley dealer). The carnua P21S isn't the most urable as far as longetivity, but you'll love the results.

Last Friday I washed the Grand Prix at a local car wash, brought it home and threw the last of my S100 on it. I took her on a road trip, dirtied her up and washed her again two days later. Being that I was out of S100 I decided to experiment and trow a coat of Gold Class on top of the S100.....
Holy Fizzle Sticks, these pics were taken after a quick wash 5 days after the last coat of wax was applied....

 
That sounds a little overboard and redundant. If you're using a cleaner wax, there's very likely little benefit to top it with a sealant and then again with a pure wax. At most, I'd do sealant or wax -- but not both. And use a spray wax after washing to help maintain the protection.

G Stone, what color are we talking about? How's the finish?

Black. Finish?
 
Finish = paint condition, age, oxidized (or not), etc.; i.e., is there any paint to polish? If this is on your Honda, black would have a clearcoat.


Look at your washing/drying habits... sheepskin mitt, quality wash, gentle rinse -- all in the cool shade (early morning/late afternoon). One bucket for suds and one for rinse of the mitt before re-sudsing.

Water spots will tend to appear on black if washed in the sun -- no matter how much wax you have. Black's tough. It can be a battle.

Claying doesn't remove all water spots -- clay can remove residue, but polishing and protection is what you probably want to work on. If the spots care caused by etching into the paint (water boiling away on the surface), then you're going to have to polish. Light water spots that clay doesn't remove can usually be rid of by using a cleaner wax or a vinegar solution. Tough water spots (etching) need to be polished -- but only to the extent that you do not breach your clearcoat, or you'll have fubar'd it.

After 3 months, you'd expect to have to wax again... unless you're under cover 24/7.


If you liked the look of the cleaner wax, stick with that; or try FX SynWax, which I like for a synthetic and it's much easier to use. What you choose depends on how much work you want to put into it and how much you want to spend. There's been lots of other suggestions here. The Mothers 3-step (Pre-Wax Cleaner, Sealer & Glaze and Pure Carnauba) is excellent for black cars and can be applied by hand and it's great for something you can pick up at Pep Boys, but whether you use a one-step (i.e., cleaner wax) or multi-step, you'll want to use a spray wax or a layer of pure carnauba wax every few weeks to maintain the look and protection. I use FX Spray Wax as I dry my car after about every other wash -- it really takes more effort to think about it than to do it, and it keeps the finish fresh and easier to maintain.
 
Thanks for the awesome post! This will relly help me out when I detail my car on Monday. I just bought a big brush the works really well when I was the car. I keep it very clean so hopefully I don't have to worry about stuff the one would at a self serve car wash. I use a chamy (sp) to dry and use Meguiars products religiously. I think i'll go with the four step process. Clay, cleaner wax, polish, gold class. I remember when I first used a clay bar I was shocked at how beautiful the car's natural finish looked. I am going to have to whore after this. :)
 
Thanks for the awesome post! This will relly help me out when I detail my car on Monday. I just bought a big brush the works really well when I was the car. I keep it very clean so hopefully I don't have to worry about stuff the one would at a self serve car wash. I use a chamy (sp) to dry and use Meguiars products religiously. I think i'll go with the four step process. Clay, cleaner wax, polish, gold class. I remember when I first used a clay bar I was shocked at how beautiful the car's natural finish looked. I am going to have to whore after this. :)


Seriously, use a sheepskin mitt to wash the body (I use an old mitt for wheels, tires, wheel wells and other grungy areas with a separate bucket of suds -- I do that first if I'm doing a good job). Do not use a brush -- brushes have pretty much no place on the paint (unless it's an SUV and you can't reach the top).

Do not use a chamois to wash or dry -- not enough nap and it removes your wax and causes streaks. Use a quality waffle weave microfiber to dry -- Most auto stores or Wal-Mart or Target or even Home Depot (in a little roll) have a decent towel that'll do in a pinch. If you can't find a suitable waffle weave, the large gold Viking drying towel at K-Mart or I think Checker also has them and they will also do the job just fine. (I really dislike Meg's microfibers, JMO.) Even the Vroom drying towel from Target will do in a pinch, and their Premium towels are decent for everything else. These aren't mail-order alterternatives, but they're light years ahead of a chamois. Use plush 100% cotton bath towels if you can't swing the microfiber route (don't use those cheap 3/$1 Pakistani towels).

Again, with the products... you're using two of the same product, just one's more expensive than the other.

Meguiar's Cleaner Wax is polishes/cleaners and wax.

Meguiar's Gold Class Liquid Wax is polishes/cleaners and wax -- just a more expensive version.

So pick one or the other, and skip the polish -- unless you really think you need polishing, then maybe you could use that before the Cleaner Wax or Gold Class (whichever of the two you chose) -- do test areas if you like to compare results.


Remember that a 3-step system is not just any three products -- it's 3 products that are meant to be part of a system -- cleaner, polish/sealer/glaze, and finally, carnauba wax. Meguiar's is called the Deep Crystal System -- Paint Cleaner, Polish and finally Wax. Mothers is called Ultimate Wax System -- Pre-Wax Cleaner, Sealer & Glaze, and finally Pure Carnauba Wax (liquid or paste; I like the paste).

So either be adjust the use of the products you have, or buy new products if you think your car needs a little extra TLC.
 
So just claying the car and putting Gold Class on it will be good enough? No sealant needed?

Also, is there any good in putting on more than one coat of wax at a time? I was thinking about putting on 3 in a row. Is that overkill?
 
So just claying the car and putting Gold Class on it will be good enough? No sealant needed?

Also, is there any good in putting on more than one coat of wax at a time? I was thinking about putting on 3 in a row. Is that overkill?

Since you weren't listing a sealant in your detailing arsenal, I wasn't recommending it. I don't know where you're shopping or what you're willing to buy. But if you're using this particular genre of products and they work for you, that's great. I'm a "pro-over-the-counter" kind of guy.

But I'm pretty sure you could use a sealant like Meguiar's #20 or 21 as mentioned above over your cleaner wax. A natural "sealant" that I know would work would be a Pure Carnauba Wax (that is, a wax without cleaners). A sealant, I believe, would technically be a synthetic wax without cleaners. For clarification, NXT isn't really a sealant, in my opinion, because technically it's a cleaner wax in synthetic form, and ColoRX is just a heavy duty cleaner wax (so it's not a sealant either).

Most seem to feel that two applications of most any cleaner wax product is fine, but beyond that the law of diminishing returns sets in. But instead, if you want extra protection without remove wax you already applied, follow with a pure carnauba wax or a pure sealant such as #20 or #21 Meguiar's Mirror Glaze.

Personally, so long as the look is okay, I'd either stop with the cleaner wax and use a spray wax the next time I washed, and keep using it.

The look is in the prep -- that's why 3-step systems are great for dark colors, because they prep the finish.

You're not going to get an appreciably better look with more coats of cleaner wax, and the protection will not be appreciably longer.
 
An ammendment on my microfiber towel recommendations...

The Micro Gear towels that Pep Boys carries aren't anything to get all excited about, except for the No-Edge Polishing Cloth looks pretty nice. The Aqua-Sorber waffle-weave is ok and their Ultra Shine towel isn't all that thick, but it's better than many. Though for the money they're not bad.

K-Mart carries the ultra-plush Viking in a large gold drying towel size and a dark green 16x24 size for detailing -- these are high-quality towels at a good price ($6-9 bucks) and feature a split weave on one side and a regular weave on the other. Don't confuse these with the crappy Viking multi-pack towels, because they do make some crappy towels. These ultra-plush are very nice towels and are on par with the Mothers Detailing Towel and mail order towels.

Wal-Mart has both cheap and a couple of decent towels... never go cheap unless they're for utilitarian purposes.

Generally speaking, avoid the 3- to 5-towel rolls or bundle packs that are only 12x12 or 12x16 -- they're too small and thin for much and they are generally too cheap to last very long, but they do serve a purpose now and again.
 
I just wanted to say thanks for this thread. It helps explain a lot for someone who hadn't heard of clay or "sealant vs cleaner" before visiting this site.
I'm a new CSVT owner looking to keep my Tour just as clean as the last guy who owned it. Threads like this help a lot! Thanks All! :cool:
Erick --
 
The learning section of autopia.org is really good for alot of these topics. http://guidetodetailing.com/

You can't go wrong with:
- wash
- clay (remove tar, bugs and other stuff stuck to the paint)
- polish (remove some water etching, swirls and scratches)
- cleaner (optional Klasse All in One, Meguiars cleaner, etc)
- sealant and/or wax (always do sealant before wax)
 
The learning section of autopia.org is really good for alot of these topics. http://guidetodetailing.com/

You can't go wrong with:
- wash
- clay (remove tar, bugs and other stuff stuck to the paint)
- polish (remove some water etching, swirls and scratches)
- cleaner (optional Klasse All in One, Meguiars cleaner, etc)
- sealant and/or wax (always do sealant before wax)

Depending on your definition of "polish," this process is correct. However, some people (including myself) think of a polish as a very light to no-cleaning product (something that just adds depth/wet look, but doesn't take care of any defects). Doing the cleaner after the polish will remove the polish that you just spent time applying. Cleaners (swirl/defect removers) should come before polish, or just use a product like Meguiar's #80 (Speed Glaze) to do both steps at once:cool:
 
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