bullion
CEG'er
Did the Pro-M MAF meters come tuned for specific SVT years (i.e. 98, 99 00)? I was debating buying a used one that came from a 2000 CSVT and wanted to make sure it would work on my 98 CSVT without having to re-tune it.
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Quick Pro-M MAF tuning question
- Thread starter bullion
- Start date
DemonSVT
CEG'er
No.
Any MAF for the CDW-27, regardless of the V6 used, is just Pro-M's base calibration based on a 19lb injector curve.
Here is the kicker though. Without the original Pro-M data sheet you do not know if they hacked the output signal. They called it "tuning for modifications" but all it was was altering the output voltage to deviate from the actual flow vs voltage curve the MAF electronics produced. Without this sheet I would not buy a Pro-M for any type of car. Well unless you have the time and equipment to fine tune the PCM MAF curve yourself.
On the same note you can not "just" swap a stock V6 MAF (or any other application) for an SVT MAF for the same reason. The MAF's respective curves are different.
Any MAF for the CDW-27, regardless of the V6 used, is just Pro-M's base calibration based on a 19lb injector curve.
Here is the kicker though. Without the original Pro-M data sheet you do not know if they hacked the output signal. They called it "tuning for modifications" but all it was was altering the output voltage to deviate from the actual flow vs voltage curve the MAF electronics produced. Without this sheet I would not buy a Pro-M for any type of car. Well unless you have the time and equipment to fine tune the PCM MAF curve yourself.
On the same note you can not "just" swap a stock V6 MAF (or any other application) for an SVT MAF for the same reason. The MAF's respective curves are different.
bullion
CEG'er
The seller only has the calibration number on the part, but he did say that it was calibrated for a completely stock 2000 CSVT.....sounds like I should pass this deal up according to you...
DemonSVT
CEG'er
Why are you wanting a different MAF?
The stock SVT MAF can meter until nearly 300 FWHP. Yes it is a flow restriction long before it gets there but we are only talking a handful of HP tops and mainly above 200 FWHP.
The 19lb Pro-M can meter until 300-325FWHP (i.e. barely more then stock) depending on what "final" calibration it has. It does not act as a flow restriction like the stock MAF style but also can require a lot more fine tuning to get it right.
If you are going to turbo your car then go with an 80mm OEM MAF. (the later curve/electronics is better then the earlier models) By all means skip the 90mm MAF just on size alone. Much less the fact that tuning it for anything but WOT is going to be rough because of its lack of resolution in the low kg/hr per voltage range. (i.e. used on a small displacement engine)
The stock SVT MAF can meter until nearly 300 FWHP. Yes it is a flow restriction long before it gets there but we are only talking a handful of HP tops and mainly above 200 FWHP.
The 19lb Pro-M can meter until 300-325FWHP (i.e. barely more then stock) depending on what "final" calibration it has. It does not act as a flow restriction like the stock MAF style but also can require a lot more fine tuning to get it right.
If you are going to turbo your car then go with an 80mm OEM MAF. (the later curve/electronics is better then the earlier models) By all means skip the 90mm MAF just on size alone. Much less the fact that tuning it for anything but WOT is going to be rough because of its lack of resolution in the low kg/hr per voltage range. (i.e. used on a small displacement engine)
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TRicker
Hard-core CEG'er
hey with a blower and nitrous should i get a lightning 80mm MAF? lol. i have overlooked that component thus far......and i'll be over 300HP
warmonger
Hard-core CEG'er
Don't change it until you need to. That means check it with a wideband. Just because you exceed your maf voltage doesn't mean it will go lean either. It just means it will use the max airflow on the chart as the rpm climbs and add fuel. If you drastically exceeded it you might....but you wont.
TRicker
Hard-core CEG'er
at its max point so far it only usses 56% of the airflow N/A, it didnt change with nitrous that much....so i'll probably be pushing it, but probably okay with boost? something like 8psi is what it's going to run for now...
that's the maf voltage, btw.
that's the maf voltage, btw.
warmonger
Hard-core CEG'er
It shouldn't have changed the airflow with nitrous at all.
Ask yourself why that would be...
Oh, 8psi with a 3L would probably be a bit over 400cfm so I think it would be close but close enough to still stay with the stock maf until you see what you've got.
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TRicker
Hard-core CEG'er
dont ask me i didnt think nitrous would change it but it did....i thought it would show a lower number on the bottle....i duno
DemonSVT
CEG'er
Nitrous enters after the MAF. You either hack the PCM signal (dry kit) or add more fuel mechanically (wet kit).
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Remember that 8psi "rating" is relative to the engine's natural cfm flow and not a universal to use against any turbo map. That is considering it to be a perfectly matched compressor map.
Also 8psi (1.54 bar ambient) on a 3L at 6500rpm is going to be ~525cfm (1100kg/hr) and well beyond the stock MAF. In this same ideal setting.
~~~
Remember that 8psi "rating" is relative to the engine's natural cfm flow and not a universal to use against any turbo map. That is considering it to be a perfectly matched compressor map.
Also 8psi (1.54 bar ambient) on a 3L at 6500rpm is going to be ~525cfm (1100kg/hr) and well beyond the stock MAF. In this same ideal setting.
TRicker
Hard-core CEG'er
it's a blower, im sure that makes a difference. i'll work on that after i get the thing on this weekend, ive got a lot of work ahead of me
warmonger
Hard-core CEG'er
Yes, but I'm betting on two things, that the compressor won't be perfectly matched at max rpm, and that his VE at those rpm's will be 90% or less.
I mean figure the vortech unit is probably the best matched compressor, this won't be as good as the vortech. At least not based on the previous dyno I saw of the TK compressor.
so 1.54 x ~330cfm max= 508cfm, times 85-90%VE is no more than 450cfm. I'm guessing with this compressor if he can push a full 8psi through it that this is what he needs to shoot for. Still over the stock maf but possible to tune for it I think.
DemonSVT
CEG'er
VE 90% or less. :blackeye: Glad I didn't build that engine.
I was getting close to that cfm from my 2.5L engine. Though it wasn't at 6500rpm either though. meh...
My main point was that a 3L at 8psi of boost is definitely going to peg the stock MAF. A 2.5L would need around 10.5psi to do it. With this same ideal compressor map.
Yes I agree the compressor map of the Vortech is a good match; for a 2.5L engine. You would have to spin the hell out of it on a 3L engine. (IIRC 4psi with stock pulley & 7psi 3 steps smaller) That would induce a significant jump in parasitic losses though. That on top of the slight intercooler pressure drop since running it non-intercooled is just playing with fire. Especially if you turn up the wick. I still think it is a good match for this chassis though. High rpm power is what it can use.
I was getting close to that cfm from my 2.5L engine. Though it wasn't at 6500rpm either though. meh...
My main point was that a 3L at 8psi of boost is definitely going to peg the stock MAF. A 2.5L would need around 10.5psi to do it. With this same ideal compressor map.
Yes I agree the compressor map of the Vortech is a good match; for a 2.5L engine. You would have to spin the hell out of it on a 3L engine. (IIRC 4psi with stock pulley & 7psi 3 steps smaller) That would induce a significant jump in parasitic losses though. That on top of the slight intercooler pressure drop since running it non-intercooled is just playing with fire. Especially if you turn up the wick. I still think it is a good match for this chassis though. High rpm power is what it can use.