planning a 3L swap

[compudude86]

alright, I am now in the planning stages of a 3L swap. My car is a 2.5L, non-SVT, 2.5" exhaust from the Y-pipe back, ATX, and I am running 17lb injectors but I have a brand new set of 19's here (bought when I was looking for 17s for my car to later find out they werent 17s). I was thinking of doing a hybrid, as I am not loaded down with machining tools, have limited funds, and can "pre-build" a hybrid at the junkyard. as I understand it, I need the 2.5 LIM/UIM, fuel rail, heads, valve covers, timing cover, and that is all I can think of. anything else?

This engine will be getting a full rebuild, using a "master rebuild" kit. I have a tuner and it goes without saying will be tuning for the 3L, I will also be gutting my precats and optimizing my Y-pipe, down the road throwing the mustang/crown vic TB on it. I'm not building this to race for money, I might take it on the track a few times in its life, or possible (big possibility) auto-X, but thats about it. other than that I want a daily driver with a bit more step in it and as a personal project to make something I enjoy.

My reasoning for a hybrid is to keep a "stock" design appearance under the hood, going for more of a "sleeper" look. Am I cheating myself that much by choosing a hybrid vs a full or portmatched? I'm thinking with the exhaust path opened with the precat gut, y-pipe, a bigger exhaust, and tuning, it should give a bit more than 200hp.

I also have a question regarding model years: out by me, I count at least 4 or 5 escapes on the road around me or in a parking lot at any given time, however, the 2 yards I go to have none, ever. my options as of today for engine years are 3 99s, 1 00, 3 01s in taurus-es, and I saw one 02 sable.

What year should I be picking for this project? I think the 99 is the closest 3.0 kit I can get for the gaskets etc to match the 2.5 heads, and still get the 3L pistons, but I have heard the 99's are not the right engine. How about timing components? will the 99 3L timing set work with stock 2.5L cams? down the road I may get a set of SVT cams, will this require a major change of timing components?

Obviously I am pretty new to 3L and have done a bit of reading here, but still need some major help...

 

[Blackcoog]

FYI a ported 3L also looks identical to a stock 2.5L motor.

Buy a low mileage motor (pay more for one) so you don't have to spend money rebuilding it. Otherwise there is no reason to buy a low mileage one so get a cheap high mileage 3L if you are going to rebuild it.

You need to get a 01+ 3L. The 04+ is preferred for various improvements. Pre 01 motors don't have a water pump driven cam so you'd need to build a custom electric water pump setup. You can use either the 3L or the 2.5L cam/timing equipment. You may need to buy new 2.5L timing equipment if yours is worn.

 

[compudude86]

ah I see what you mean, I should've been more clear, I should have said hybrid or portmatched vs full. So what is necessary to mate a 2001 3L head to a 2.5L intake? Do I still need to pull LIM/UIM/ valve covers/timing cover, or is it all there? Would it be easier to pull 2.5L heads and install those? do I need to machine/use "bugzuki plates" on my 3L head to match the LIM, or is it all bolt-on?

thats the thing, the yard charges a flat rate for motors, under $200 (im sure im missing fine print somewhere in there). I feel like I'd rather rebuild now, get another 200k (300+ with religious maintenance) than to throw in a 3L, not know how the previous owner took care of it, and have it out of service later for X amount of time while I rebuild it, at least for now I have a still running engine in the car while I could be rebuilding. Though it does have me thinking about throwing it in anyway and worrying about a rebuild later, choices choices. (hell for under 200 I could buy one later and rebuild it and keep it as a spare if it were that big of an issue )

my question about timing refers to some posts I read that the tooth spacing is different on a few cams, just trying to figure out if I would run into issues like that during a build or rebuild.

 

[Blackcoog]

I don't know what is needed to go hybrid other than you have to block some passages on some heads. Others with hybrids will have to chime in. To mate a 3L head (oval port) to a 2.5L intake you need to port the heads out and use bugzuki plates to cover the old 3L injector ports. You need to use your 2.5L timing cover. You can use a 3L oil pan. You should use 2.5L valve covers for a ported or hybrid build so the IMRC and coil pack bolt up like they would on a stock motor.

There are two different types of timing gear. Just use the set that came with the cams you are installing. If those are worn out get a new set of timing gear.

 

[compudude86]

I see, I am thinking about going with the 01 3L block, 2.5 heads (as I understand, at least when I was in engine class taking apart the duratec, they have both "2.5L" and "3L" cast into them, leading me to believe these are the same heads/same valves/same intake/exhaust ports either way, with the absence or presence of a few passages?) the 2.5 timing cover and pulse wheel, contour alternator bracket, and 2.5 valve covers and UIM/LIM. would I want to keep a 2.5L non-SVT cam, or should I trade up to the 3L cam? I think I read that the 3L cam is matched to the pear ports, and the lack of IMRC, so I am thinking it would be best to stay with the 2.5.

I see what you mean about timing sets, a few parts can be swapped to make it all work... I can get my 3L rebuild kit without oil pump and timing set, and then just add the 2.5L timing set and use the 2.5 sprocket, 2.5 chain, with the 2.5 cams.

the nice thing about this is it being a "pick your own" junkyard, so it gives you the flexibility to pull a 3L and then pick and choose what you want to go on it without having to buy the engine, then go buy the right heads for it or take it off your car, then buy the proper accessories and covers, etc, I would be taking home an engine that after the rebuild of replacing bearings rings timing etc, could be bolted up to my trans (which I will also be R&Ring) the old lump pulled out, and the new one dropped in, bolted down, everything attached, and awaiting the retune, and it will be back on the road in a day or two vs the time and labor needed to swap the parts off the old engine to the new one and having the vehicle offline for that time...

 

[Smokinjoe]

If it were me, I'd go with a tried and true portmatched build. 3L block, heads, and cams, with an SVT UIM/LIM. I'd go with a low mileage motor, and I wouldn't rebuild it.

 

[Blackcoog]

I agree. Either that or a full 3L also with a low mileage motor (no rebuild). 2.5L heads are not the same as the 3L heads. The valves, passages, combustion chamber, etc are larger on the 3L. 3L heads will flow more than stock 2.5L heads. If you put 2.5L heads on a 3L you end up with 11.2:1 compression.

 

[compudude86]

11.2:1 ?!?! This is with stock 2.5 (NOT SVT) heads? This concerns me, as I need to keep this running 87. If gas were still $2 a gallon id be more than happy to run 110 octane racing fuel in it, but until that day comes back around im stuck at 87, or finding a way to convert to E-85. So what is my best way to do this, so that I can use split-port heads and 3L with a cam-driven waterpump, and still run 87?

 

[compudude86]

I may have misunderstood, my tuner program allows me to use 11.0:1-11.5:1 and tune for 87, so it must do the necessary calculation in the tune to allow that compression on pump gas...

 

[Beans]

I think i would only 3L a atx, if it was the zombie apocalypse and there were no other cars or engines left on earth.

 

[CSVT#49]

11.2:1 ?!?! This is with stock 2.5 (NOT SVT) heads? This concerns me, as I need to keep this running 87. If gas were still $2 a gallon id be more than happy to run 110 octane racing fuel in it, but until that day comes back around im stuck at 87, or finding a way to convert to E-85. So what is my best way to do this, so that I can use split-port heads and 3L with a cam-driven waterpump, and still run 87?

I may have misunderstood, my tuner program allows me to use 11.0:1-11.5:1 and tune for 87, so it must do the necessary calculation in the tune to allow that compression on pump gas...

The 11.2:1 is only if you use the 2.5L heads (SVT or non-SVT doesn't matter). This is why we are telling you to stick with the 3L heads and port match them if you wish to keep the stock 2.5L LIM & UIM. Also do not use 87 octane with that compression. You might as well drop a grenade into your intake and pour water into your oil pan.

I think i would only 3L a atx, if it was the zombie apocalypse and there were no other cars or engines left on earth.

As long as he doesn't build the snot out of it a 3L with a non-SVT LIM & UIM isn't going to put much more then 180-190hp to the wheels. He'll be fine.

 

[compudude86]

ok, I understand now, 2.5L heads are a bad idea. was just reading the info over at NECO, I read you get a bit more HP with a hybrid, but because of that compression you need premium fuel or you will get detonation. In general it looks like a lot of hybrids live short lives as well. this looks like reason enough to go 3L portmatched, I want to get as much life as I can out of it, I guess extra HP isn't worth a dead engine between 10,000-100,000k...

What do I do with my IMRC on a portmatched setup? I would think running them would be worthless, but I dont know about disassembling them.

Also, in a 3L portmatch, what should I be taking from the 2.5L and what from the 3L? so far:

2.5L:
*valve covers
*timing cover
*UIM/LIM
*alternator bracket (I have a brand new alternator to fit it..)

3L:

?