Oil Cooler

[gorman]

Hey guys;

Has anyone done a remote cooler system ?

I need to know which order the pipes go in.

engine adaptor ...... rad ....... filter ..... engine adaptor ? or fliter ..... rad ?

Also; where does the center pipe on the adaptor and the remote
filter go ? in or output pipe ?

Thanks .... G.

 

[gorman]

Hey guys; ok i've had time to look at a dismantled engine, here how it looks...

oil gets drawn up the pick up pipe and is pumped through the pump and out along a gallery to the outer ring of the oil filter.

The oil is pushed through the filter and back out through the center of the filter, along a gallery to the end of the engine block behind the pump and then rises and splits to each half of the block.

So; anyone disagree with that route ?

anyone care to suggest whether the rad should be before or after the remote filter ?

thanks .... G.

 

[gmorrell]

I have done a remote oil filter and a remote air/oil cooler on my CSVT, removing the factory water/oil cooler. It can be more complicated than it initially appears, especially on this engine.

The first question you should ask yourself is "Do I really need and want to do this?"

Apparently you've answered yes...

If you're going to use an air/oil cooler, you should remove the water/oil-cooler between the engine and filter. You'll need to do some water line re-plumbing to bypass the water/oil cooler and route the line coming from the heater core back up to the water pump. The little metal lines that feed the oil cooler don't come out from between the block and exhaust manifold without cutting or damaging them, so be prepared to wreck them.

If you want to keep the stock filter location, you're going to need a thermostatic sandwich plate to mount to the block, this controls the flow of oil to the cooler so the oil isn't over-cooled. Oil that is over-cooled is probably worse for your engine than oil that is too hot. You'll need something like this from BATinc., specifically the SP1GT in 22mm thread, since M22-1.5 straight pipe is the female thread in the engine block.

So, to install this sandwich to the block, you'll need an M22-1.5 to M22-1.5 straight thread pipe nipple, these are very hard to find, but I made one from a pressure washer hose connector, you'll need to chuck it in a lathe and machine off the wrench flats so it fits properly.

Now you need to site a proper oil cooler and run large bore lines from the sandwich plate to the cooler, I strongly recommend nothing less than 5/8" I.D. (-10 AN) lines, as these lines will be carrying ALL the oil for your engine when the oil thermostat is open and routing oil through the cooler.

When you site the new oil cooler, you need to put it somewhere where it gets cool air, AND you really should place it so it doesn't dump its heat into the engine radiator airstream, or you've sort of defeated the whole purpose of adding an external oil cooler.

Are you sure you still want to do this? :laugh:

Seriously, I have multiple-hundreds of dollars invested in my oil cooling and filtering, and if you do this wrong, either by cheaping out on components or hose size, or you blow an oil line, you'll be spinning rod bearings and building a new engine before you can say "Oh shi..."

 

[gorman]

Hey gmorrell; thanks for the lengthy reply .... it's appreciated. I've chopped up your post with some questions still outstanding..

You'll need to do some water line re-plumbing to bypass the water/oil cooler and route the line coming from the heater core back up to the water pump.

i was going to use the pipes from a non cooler setup to re route the water ... correct ?

The little metal lines that feed the oil cooler don't come out from between the block and exhaust manifold without cutting or damaging them, so be prepared to wreck them. .

the whole lot came off when the engine was still out of the car.

If you want to keep the stock filter location, you're going to need a thermostatic sandwich plate to mount to the block .

already have the adaptor plate mounted ( got a thread adaptor made before christmas). The remote filter is mounted too. I have located the rad in front of the power steering cooler. Brackets made and ready to go. I'm just checking on the oil pipe route before cutting pipes to length.

I strongly recommend nothing less than 5/8" I.D. (-10 AN) lines, as these lines will be carrying ALL the oil for your engine when the oil thermostat is open and routing oil through the cooler.

check and check.

When you site the new oil cooler, you need to put it somewhere where it gets cool air, AND you really should place it so it doesn't dump its heat into the engine radiator airstream, or you've sort of defeated the whole purpose of adding an external oil cooler.

can't really see where else to mount it ..... have to see how i go ... maybe move it if i have issues.

Are you sure you still want to do this? :laugh:

Seriously, I have multiple-hundreds of dollars invested in my oil cooling and filtering, and if you do this wrong, either by cheaping out on components or hose size, or you blow an oil line, you'll be spinning rod bearings and building a new engine before you can say "Oh shi..."

i have a Vortech kit installed .... i don't have a choice, since the vortech style front header fouls the stock oil cooler plate.

Do you agree with the engine oil circulation route posted above ?

... also, filter or rad first ? I found a guy who did a V8 truck and he went filter... rad, what is your preference ? ..... G.

 

[gmorrell]

OK, so you're further down the rabbit hole than I thought.

So you already have an oil take-off plate on the engine block and you're remoting the oil filter too, good.

For the heater hose routing, I think I went to Advance Auto and bought a 90º hose elbow that was 3/4" on one end and 5/8" on the other. IIRC, the nipple on the bottom of the water pump is 3/4", and it has to now splice to 5/8" heater hose, and this was the easiest solution to bypassing the factory oil cooler water lines.

Are you going to use an oil thermostat? They make in-line units, BAT has a decent selection of Mocal in-line oil thermostats.
Instructions for plumbing them are on the last page.

You can see a Mocal -10 AN thermostat plumbed-in here on my Taurus SHO:

If you're not using an oil thermostat, then I'd recommend this for routing:
1. Engine block adapter outlet (outside port) to oil filter inlet.
2. Oil filter outlet (center of filter) to oil cooler.
3. Oil cooler to engine block inlet (center hole).

If you're using an oil thermostat:
1. Engine block adapter outlet (outside port) to oil filter inlet.
2. Oil filter outlet (center of filter) to oil thermostat "from engine" port.
3. Oil thermostat "to engine" port to block adapter inlet port (center hole).
4. Oil thermostat "to cooler" port to oil cooler.
5. Oil thermostat "from cooler" port to other port on oil cooler.

For the most part, I prefer to plumb the filter in first. Everything else: thermostats, coolers, whatever, should be downstream of the filter.

Here are some pics of the remote dual filter on my Taurus SHO here:
http://s301.photobucket.com/user/gmorrell_1959/library/SHO Remote Oil Filter?page=1

The CSVT remote filter is here:
http://s301.photobucket.com/user/gmorrell_1959/library/SVT Contour Oil Filter Relocate?page=1
I haven't updated this album to show the oil thermostat and cooler, it looks very different now.

 

[gorman]

OK, so you're further down the rabbit hole than I thought. .

wow !! feeling super confident now :laugh:

Are you going to use an oil thermostat?. .

i am planning to use a sandwich plate under the relocated filter.
One question... i don't have a 1/2" bsp / 10AN union to hand ( thermostat plate ports are 1/2" bsp) .... would these pipe unions be restrictive to a 10 AN pipe setup ?

Your dual filter setup looks the biz ... i see where you put all the time and effort. I've tried to keep all my pipes as short as possible ... is this a good aim to have, or does it not matter ?

I'm also trying to route pipes so that air can run uphill and escape..... How do you bleed the system ? especially concerned for initial start up ..... G.

 

[jaged]

gorman, you have a set up very similar to mine, i had the same issue with the vortech. mine goes out from block to filter to cooler back to block. i dont have a hood latch so i mounted my cooler on the radiator support right in where the grill opening is

OT: any chance youd be interested in a meth injection kit?

 

[gorman]

hey jaged; do you have an in line stat ? where did you put it ? aren't you concerned about an air lock with the oil cooler being so high ?

My car is dual fuel.
It runs propane most of the time and only uses gasoline on warm up, unless i choose otherwise. Propane has a high octane rating, so i'm not anticipating pre-ignition. Once i get it running i'll know for sure if 7psi of boost causes issues ... maybe if you still have the kit i'll check back, if that's ok .... G.

 

[jaged]

i didnt see that about the LPG, thats interesting

i dont think i have room to mount it lower, ill look into it just to make the run shorter

 

[gorman]

i didnt see that about the LPG, thats interesting

the price of gasoline is a national joke !! I converted to LPG to make a V6 affordable as a DD. The fact that it suits high compression was a happy accident. The fact that the LPG kit and the vortech will all bolt straight on to an ST220 some day, is another. :crazy:

i dont think i have room to mount it lower, ill look into it just to make the run shorter

is your system regulated by a stat? What oil temps do you have ? .... G.

 

[gmorrell]

I am planning to use a sandwich plate under the relocated filter.
One question... i don't have a 1/2" bsp / 10AN union to hand ( thermostat plate ports are 1/2" bsp) .... would these pipe unions be restrictive to a 10 AN pipe setup ?

Tapered NPT pipe will work in a BSP hole, but the taper can split thinwall pieces, and it doesn't always stay leak free. I just happen to have two brand new 1/2" BSP to -10 AN unions with Dowty seals, don't need them, $20 to my PayPal and they're yours, shipped. PM me.

I did the same thing on my CSVT, used a thermo plate on the filter remote mount, made the plumbing much easier than the in-line thermo I used on the SHO.

Your dual filter setup looks the biz ... i see where you put all the time and effort. I've tried to keep all my pipes as short as possible ... is this a good aim to have, or does it not matter ?

Short lines are good, just keep in mind how stuff needs to flex and move, and long hoses should be well supported. If you're using line with Stainless outer braid, the stuff is like a file, it will abrade and cut through softer stuff.

I'm also trying to route pipes so that air can run uphill and escape..... How do you bleed the system ? especially concerned for initial start up ..... G.

Common sense prevails, try to route hoses and coolers so bubbles leave easily via gravity, but these engines flow so damn much oil that they'll clear bubbles, no problem. If you're really anal, you can crack the lines and drain them at the oil change, but I never bother with that, I leave the oil in the lines to shorten the prime at the first startup.

Once you get a handle on the extra oil volume in the remote plumbing, just overfill the crankcase a bit, pull the coil pack connector and the fuel pump relay and crank the engine for awhile to prime the system. My oil filter is mounted vertically, so I prefill it, FL1-A style filters will hold damn near a quart.

 

[gorman]

I did the same thing on my CSVT, used a thermo plate on the filter remote mount, made the plumbing much easier than the in-line thermo I used on the SHO.

Hi Gary; can i ask please, i'm looking at the mocal thermo-sandwich plate and i'm struggling to see how it works.

From what i see, the oil would come into the top of my remote filter plate and feed oil to the right chamber in the top of the SP. Oil would flow out of the port to the rad and back to the SP, in thru the left underside chamber and down into the filter then up thru the center of the whole unit and back to the engine.

So, what the hell is that spring thermo unit doing ? it looks like it would just allow greater or lesser amounts of oil to bypass the rad and bleed straight through the SP via the thermostat chamber, into the filter !! .. so constant cooling with less cooling when the oil gets hot !! or have i got the action of the thermo - spring backwards ?

..... been hunting the internet for answers and drawn a complete blank, any help would be appreciated ... thanks ... G.

 

[gmorrell]

Your thermo sandwich plate probably looks something like this one I have. This is one of the Mocal high-flow marine units.





Think of it like this: Oil from the engine enters the outside ring on the engine side, but the oil is cold, so the thermostat valve keeps the crossover passage open. The oil flows through the crossover passage to the outside of the filter side, flows into the outside of the filter, flows through the filter and exits the filter through the center stem back to the engine.

As the oil warms, a wax pill in the thermostat valve expands, and closes off the crossover passage. Now, hot oil must exit the left port on the engine side picture, flows to the cooler, returns to the engine side right port, flows through the filter and back to the engine.

The cooler and lines to the cooler always see oil pressure, even with cold oil, but having the crossover passage open means the pressure in the cooler and lines is all relatively the same, so there is very little flow to the cooler with cold oil. Once the oil is hot and the crossover valve fully closes, the cooler sees full flow. The valve is progressive, it will throttle oil flow to the cooler to maintain the setpoint temp.

They're a little counter-intuitive at first, you look at it and go "HTF can this work?"

 

[gorman]

Hi gary, thanks for that reply.

From what you've said, i got the operation of the thermo valve backwards. I assumed that when the oil got hot, the wax melted and allowed the expanding spring to open the valve further .... which is why i couldn't fathom its' operation. I feel happier now that you've explained that the valve closes with a rise in temperature, even though i still don't understand exactly how that mechanism works.

The plate i've got looks almost the same as that one you have. I did open up the ports a little with a grinding bit... didn't like the flashings left after the casting process... i expected better from Mocal ... G.

 

[gmorrell]

The plate i've got looks almost the same as that one you have. I did open up the ports a little with a grinding bit... didn't like the flashings left after the casting process... i expected better from Mocal ... G.

The unit in the pictures is the spendy SP1T-HF, it's about 2X the cost of the other Mocal units, it's a much nicer casting, and it should be for the extra $. I've also done some considerable casting roughness cleanup in the lesser Mocal oil filter adapters and thermo sandwich plates.

 

[gorman]

... i looked at the high flow units.

After measuring the ID of the original adaptor from the watercooler/ filter (15mm, slightly less at the hex flats), i took that measurement to size the rest of the new install .... G.

 

[gmorrell]

The guts of the shuttle valve.


The thermal "pill" at room temp.


The pill after a few moments in a pan of boiling water.

 

[gorman]

Thank you so much for posting those pictures Gary, that are greatly appreciated.

I thought about opening mine up but i chickened out

The pictures explain clearly how that spring you can see, only returns the valve to its' cold temp position.

I put the sandwich plate straight onto the engine block ... but ughh, every position i tried, the tight piping route was horrible. Remote definately gives smooth clean lines. .... G.

 

[gorman]

hey Gary; I've now got the engine running. It sounds very rattley up top.

Before I take the top off the engine in an attempt to find out what's causing it.... can I ask if you had oil flow issues before you went to the high flow sandwich plate. .... G.

 

[gmorrell]

Never had any issues with pressure or flow. Post up some pics of the oiling plumbing and double check all the ins and outs, it's easy to mis-connect something when you have a face-full of -10 lines.

Oil flows out of the block on the outside port.
Into the remote filter stand on its outside port.
Filter stand outlet from the filter's center port.
Return to the engine block at the center port.

Thermo sandwich plate to oil cooler connections don't much matter.