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My opinion on 3 liter salvage motors

B

BurritaSVT

Veteran CEG'er
Joined
Feb 28, 2001
Messages
756
Location
houma, LA 70360
I have a customer here who bought the LIM mod and he also bought a low mileage motor 12k on it he put maybe 1200 miles on it and spun a bearing on it this week. I know everyone strives to get a motor under 20k but you must sit back and ask yourself this how long has that motor been sitting out of the car or even not running. These motors are over 5 years old and if it has less then 20k you must ask yourself that question because a motor that sits there undriven or exposure to humidity you should not use this motor unless you swap all the bearings out.

My opinion is that a motor with 50k to 30k is still a new motor by this time if there was a flaw in the casting or in the bearings it would have happened before this mileage. Heck I have a 95k motor with 11 psi running through it llike it is nothing no smoking or blowby 2.5 liter SVT motor too. The duratec motors are built very well and don't go out and spend $300 more to just get a motor that has been sitting there for three years in the salvage yard.

Thankful the guy bought my LIM mod other wise he would be modifying heads again like the old way and he save time with is money for a mechanic or himself.

So my conclusion is mileage means very little under 50k in my opinion because there are no major maintenance until 75k or better. Joey
 
I would have to somewhat disagree on this matter, I work in the salvage industry and we sell alot of used engines and have a VERY low failure rate , although we do keep our engines that have been removed from the vehicle in a warehouse , it is not climate controlled , and a good percentage of that low failure rate is installer error. I think it depends most on where the engine is bought from. Some yards store their engines outside, or arent truthful of actual mileage, I dont completely disagree with what you said but there are alot of variables that would affect the longevity of a used engine. The engine i used for my 3L swap had sat for almost two years and looked great inside. Just a different point of view from the other side of the fence :)
 
The one I have sat for about three months before I got ahold of it. It's been sitting in my garage since March. I have the vin of the car it came out of and everything checks out. The car was a rental and sold only 4,000 miles before it was wrecked. It was well maintained.

Though since I've had it, I do turn it over by hand and run oil through it on occasion to keep things, hopefully anyway, happy.

I agree with Kev that it could be just a fluke. It is a machine built by humans so anything can go wrong at any time.
Then again, how it was treated, stored, ran and maintained will have a huge affect on how long it lives.
 
We all know a motor sitting up is the worst thing you can do to a motor trust me being in the auto mechanic side of it for 18 years you will see seals set up/oil gummed due to oil aging/ cylinder walls will gain surface rust/ intial startup are killers due to oil drained out of bearings/ the list goes on........ it would be better for a salvage yard to dump the motor within a year regardless of how good they think they sealed the motor. Installation error would be unlikely unless someone removed the bearings and didn't prelube the bearings and do plastic guage for clearances. Now I am not saying this is what killed the motor but if I was to buy a salvage motor I always ask when the car was wrecked just some pointers to others that just because it is a low mileage motor doesn't mean you will get more mileage out of a salvage motor. We all know in the past we had many of swaps that had spun bearings right after the swap as a result everyone has been swapping bearings to avoid this when it is not the bearings but the oil gummed up or the dry bearings causing the damage. Once you scar the bearing bad it will slowly eat away till it overheats and spins on you. Just my .02 cents
 
Well, my personal opinion and I've probably dealt with more of these salvage motors than just about anyone one the boards other than Blackcoog, is that you're a f'in idiot if you ASSume that a salvage motor doesn't at least warrant a partial tear down and inspection. I've built and sold a large number of these engines and have yet to hear of one spinning any bearings. Actually, the only failure on any of my motors other than my own from issues not related to the actual build, is the Hahn's motor which also had a large amount of boost being poured through it and it's inconclusive how that failure occured and even then it wasn't bearing related.

However, if you read through the boards here, it would seem that the bearing failure rate for guys doing these engines on their own seems to be 1 in 10 to 1 in 20 because they're not following basic common sense and slapping a motor in their car that they have absolutely no idea what the history is.

I do agree that mileage doesn't necessarily guarantee a good motor, but for me it's a starting point only. I've seen under 30K mile motors be complete trash inside requiring a full hot tanking to clean properly and I've seen motors that don't require more than a rag to clean inside and out. Bottom line is, if you put a junkyard motor in your car without doing at least a basic inspection of the bearings, you're living with a ticking time bomb.

Rick
 
Yes I agree you need to know more than the mileage with the motor because you can't judge the motor by it's skin only. Now I know we are talking maybe 5% of the people may have had this problem but I figure I would mention to others about the small risk of the engines sit up time. I know you do have more engine under your belt but you also rebuild them completely so that eliminates alot of problems too. I am just saying I rather buy a 30-50k motor save $300 put in $150 into the motor with new bearings and have a new motor in my opinion while still saving $200 too.

What I diagree with is what if you bought a car from someone that runs with the motor in the car. Are you going to change the bearings out? No and why is that Rick? You say I would never put a motor in the car without changing the bearings. Now you would usually say because the motor is already out why not but all it takes to change the rod bearings is to drop the oil pan that is quite easy too. The real reason I would expect is because the motor has not been ran for a very long time and possibly moisture has traveled inside the motor otherwise it is no different from buy a car with a motor with 50k on it or even less right. Now they have this other car who sat all winter long and now needs to sell it I am sure you start it when you buy it rev it up and drive it and finally say its good. Well that same car is the one I call borderline for me because it is the exact same motor that was at the salvage yard only for 6 mos with caps in the hoses and out of the direct weather. We know if the motor was there only 6 mos the car just was running when it was totalled. And the only part I disagree about this part is you don't know what you have till you put the motor in which can be time and money to some so changing the bearings out may assure you that too. Though some people have the problem further down the road than others too. Joey
 
Joey,

I think I get what you're saying in the second part of your post. However, I think the comparison is apples to oranges. If you buy a car that runs, but has been sitting on for 6 months+ you don't expect to have to change a bunch of parts in it as long as it starts and runs. However, you get the benefit of seeing the rest of the vehicle and are able to more generally asses what the possible care for the motor was based on the rest of the vehicle plus you know that the engine was stored in a sealed environment-i.e. hooked up to all the wiring, hoses, etc in the car.

When you buy a salvage motor, you have no clue what the care was like other than the car was obviously destroyed in a crash of some type. On top of that, you don't know if the engine remained in the car until it was pulled for your order (I know a number of yards that operate like this), was it exposed to outside elements because of cut hoses, broken pan, etc? There are a number of extra variables when buying a junk yard "running" motor versus buying a running car.

Rick
 
My 2 cents is try to get a motor that was run the most rescently, When engines sit they tend to have more problems when the are eventually used again.
 
my experience was a little different than yours. i got to go look at the engines before i decided. numbers don't mean much. i looked at a 25k mile motor and the compression readings were all 20 psi differed. my engine had more miles, but looked brand new, and the compression numbers were all within 5 psi. i think the problem lies in people buying engines according to mileage which could be a total lie. plus they don't look at the engines they just have them shipped usually.
 
so what would everyones take be on a 2004 taurus with 3k miles if the engine has never been removed or if it has it has been stored properly? The site lists the engine as tested and from the pics it does still appear to be brand new, however I do not know how old the provided pictures are. Since it near to me I would go and check it out first if possible.
 
Hmmm, 3000 miles? I'd take it over any 2006+ with 50K on it(assuming same price)! It would need checking but I think the chances are pretty darn low that the engine internals had been mistreated in the 3000 miles it was in use. As for sitting around time, take the pan off and if all looks well (clean) slap the pan back on. Do a compression check (or leak down) and if that looks good, leave it alone and use it. MY opinion (gut feeling) as to why old yet low mileage engines are crapping out so soon is how people are bringing the engine back online. I read somewhere the recommendation to prime the engine (oil) you should crank the engine for 15 to 30 seconds with the fuel turned off before actually starting the engine. Sorry, not me, thats basically crossing your fingers that all is well. Oil pumps that are bone dry could very well take that amount of time (or more) for presure to come up. Even better ways to do it, but for me:

Pull the plugs and turn engine over until I actually see the oil pressure is up (I continue cranking at this point for another 20 seconds or so). I like to actually SEE things, so I will be doing this before the engine goes back in. I will do this with valve covers off and visually verify oil is making it to the top end.

Install plugs, start engine, leave at idle, verify oil pressure is up and steady. Immediately shutdown if it isn't.

Depending upon how anal I'm feeling at the time will help dictate how soon I change the oil and whether I throw some sort of 'cleaning' agent in the oil. My <10K engine to be installed will have it's oil changed at 50-100 miles, with close monitoring during that time. I just may use a qt or so of kerosene, run 5-10 minutes and change immediately afterwards. Then run the 50 miles or so and change again. Figure I can do this a few more times and still stay under $100. And what's $100 for the added security of knowing your engine is being properly oiled?
 
that kerosene trick is popular on the probe boards..i did it on my 197k mile engine to clean out the hla's..worked like a charm:cool:
 
I checked the site out alittle bit more and noticed that it listed a purchase date of early 2005, which would make sense with its low miles and it was T-boned on the passanger side. Now they only have a few parts left from the car so I am thinking that the engine was pulled. But I need to contact them about it.
 
BrApple said:
I checked the site out alittle bit more and noticed that it listed a purchase date of early 2005, which would make sense with its low miles and it was T-boned on the passanger side. Now they only have a few parts left from the car so I am thinking that the engine was pulled. But I need to contact them about it.
Click to expand...


So, when are we going to check this motor out? :)
 
I would think you should ALWAYS tear it down if you care. An older 50K mile plus engine would need seals, bearings and probably new stock rings though the cylinder walls typically don't wear on these engines in normal operation.
You could do a basic check for cylinder taper, examine the rings and then slap in a new standard set along with new standard bearings and seals and probably be just as good as a low miles motor.
A low miles motor that has been sitting really only needs a disassembly, clean and relube along with new gaskets and bolts for the TTY ones you pull apart.
I got a very low miles motor the last time it didn't even lose that silvery finish on the inside where the oil normally stains parts. However on a hunch I decided to pull the pistons...or I may have not been sure what was in the cylinders....hahah, anyway I opened it all the way and I was glad I did. completely gunked rings had held dirt, probably would not have sealed anymore because they would have allowed a lot of blowby and perhaps have even scratched the walls.
I pulled the rings off and cleaned every piston and ring carefully and reassembled because once clean everything looked like new. I didn't stint on the bearings though, brand new ones went in along with all new seals.
valves were like new but crud sitting there needing cleaning. The seats were great though, looked freshly installed. The inside of the intake was not clean either but I wasn't using it.
The engine had definitely been sitting a while even though it may not have even had its first oil change from the looks of it under the valve covers and in the pan. It was near perfect afterwards though.
 
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