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Gonna be doing a 3L swap for my Cougar, seeking a little direction

A

azbobbybooshay10

CEG'er
Joined
Dec 20, 2005
Messages
315
Location
Northern AZ
With my tranny exploding and the powertrain needing to come out, I figure this is the best opportunity I've had to make the leap to 3L power, while sticking my 2.5 into a Contour for use as a DD. My Cougar is far, far from a DD-type vehicle and I have no desire to just put the 2.5 back in, especially with my intended purpose for the car.

The car will be probably 50% or more for open track use on road courses, so good top end is more important for my uses. The more power the higher in the powerband, the better.

A friend did an MPV swap in his Contour, and in doing research, the MPV engine appears to be the "most straight forward" swap out there. The only issue I've heard about is the manifold clearing the hood. I'm not sure how the Cougar engine bay/hood line compares to a Contour, so that's something I'm looking for an answer for.

A few bullet point issues that are slightly clouding things up for me.

  • I do not have ANY SVT parts on my current 2.5. Doing the split-port matching setup would mean I would also need to source an SVT UIM/LIM/TB in addition to the engine.
  • My Cougar is return style, so I would need to mod the fuel rail/lines to accommodate. I see the NPG adapter and would most likely go with that if it is compatible with a complete 3L (not split-port)
  • I want the car to rev, as mentioned before. I had considered going ahead and trying to go with SVT cams, but have heard that the 3L cams are actually fairly comparable in power.
  • I hate IMRC's. The trans exploded before I could put a new IMRC in, but both Cougar's I've owned have had IMRC issues and I can't stand the damn things and their poor longevity, especially in Arizona heat. Going full 3L would eliminate this and make me VERY happy.

So basically, from what I can tell, the full 3L would be best for me, other than the uncertainty of the UIM fitment. I will be deleting the EGR and getting a proper tune before I really do any driving, so that is something I am already planning for. I'm just looking for a little guidance on which direction I should start pursuing, as you guys here on CEG seem to do a LOT when it comes to performance and 3L swaps. Thanks in advance, and as I start going on things, I will definitely be sure to be updating my progress.
 
Oval port 3L swaps are where it's at in my opinion. I just did my vary first oval port swap over the split port swap I normally do and the car runs awesome and it is not even tuned yet. From what I understand the svt cams produce more top end power as to where the 3L cams make more low end power. From whati understand. Even without a tune the car is vary drivable.

And if you're also interested I have a svt UIM, TB and throttle cable I could sell you for cheap if you do end up doing the ported swap. In my oval port I used a 04 sable engine and the 3L UIM cleared my hood without a problem. And I personally would just use a sable engine over a MVP engine unless you're cougar is a 01-02 because then you're altinator bracket would work perfectly on the mpg engine.

Just my two cents..
 
sounds like u got it all taken care of...
heres some advice i would give you if your going to track it. (from personal experience)

-get headers while the car is out. after my full open exhaust i would go with a true dual exhaust for performance.
-if u still want more power out of a full 3L then get cam regrinds right away. because cams need to been tuned too so you can get that taken care of right away.
-get a 65mm tb
-lightweight flywheel will make you car rev as u wanted
-i would highly recommend a clutch stronger than an svt. not all, but many ppl have slipping issues when doing some sort of racing or fast shifting.
-build your drivetrain while its out too. lsd, axles, wheel bearings, and whatever else. also check your syncros
-and one thing i didnt do, but should have, is get aftermarket rod bearings. better yet, get the rods themselves. to prevent any type of engine failures.

this is just my .02. and some of these things i have done, and some not. but i wish i have.
 
^^ I also agree with him if you're going to do it then I would take you're time and do it right if you're looking to spend the money that goes with it.
 
I already have a Fidanza Flywheel and SVT clutch on my current 2.5. And yes, NOT putting headers on while its out would absolutely asinine IMO. My Cougar is a 1999, so from what I've read, the alternator bracket is one advantage to the MPV engine in my case.

In terms of cams, that's one of my biggest variables. I've seen videos on YouTube of BuckeyeSVT's car with his custom cams, and I'm curious as to what his power band looks like. This may be a "novelty" thing, but I would love to be able to rev over 7k and make power all the way there. Like I said, when it comes to a road course, top end is what I'm after.

Now I'm not super rich here, so its still going to be a bit of a "budget build". I am definitely wanting an LSD, but I'm not sure if I can afford going with a fully built transmission and engine. The MPV engines I've been finding are all around 100,000 miles, so at the very least I would want to put new bearings in the bottom and of course new gaskets."Economical but smart" is probably the best way I can describe the build I'm wanting to do.
 
You really should put a LSD into the car. The differentials are so brittle in the stock trannys, the extra power of 3.0L destroys them rather quickly. One thing you could do, is look for a 95-96 differential. They were stronger than the 98+ ones....and they are dirt cheap to get.
 
eldaido, you should see my open dif after 125k miles. it still looks new. and i beat the •••• out of my car! not saying his will last but you have to know what breaks a dif and not do it.


if its a budget build then i would reccommend just gathering parts over time so you can do it right the first time.
at least get everything for teh engine wise. then save up for teh drive train and pull out the tranny alone. thats what i did. and it wasnt bad at all
 
aboythatskates said:
eldaido, you should see my open dif after 125k miles. it still looks new. and i beat the •••• out of my car! not saying his will last but you have to know what breaks a dif and not do it.
Click to expand...

And a TON of people have blown their up with just 2.5 power levels while DD. I would rather be safe than sorry and change it out.
 
Other issues for the full 3L swaps:
-You need to build a custom throttle body bracket for the 3L intakes
-The 3L injectors will not connect to the stock harness so you'll have to deal with that since you're going that route.
-Most of the vacuum lines will have to be cut up and re-routed
-The injector harness doesn't fit very well around the 3L intakes so you need to trim some of the plastic casing off.
-The throttle position sensor connector doesn't reach so you'll want to extend it. You could force it in a pinch but it's really tight.
-The coil pack will need a custom mount

azbobbybooshay10 said:
[*]I do not have ANY SVT parts on my current 2.5. Doing the split-port matching setup would mean I would also need to source an SVT UIM/LIM/TB in addition to the engine.
Click to expand...

Not that it matters but for others that read this: You don't need SVT parts for the ported motors. Stock parts are split port intakes. I've built a few 3L's running stock 2.5L parts. Of course SVT's would be preferred.
 
How much of a power loss would I be looking at by using the regular 2.5 UIM/LIM/TB vs. the SVT on a split-port 3L? And I'm still curious, for my particular application, what sort of differences am I looking at with 3L cams vs. switching to (and of course tuning for) SVT cams?

EDIT: Also, I was hoping to keep my 2.5 intact as-is and stick it into a Contour with a blown engine for use as a DD. I would highly, highly prefer to not cannibalize my 2.5. Of course if I sourced the split-port parts from an SVT and didn't have to touch my 2.5 that would be preferred.
 
the requirements that blackcoog posted for the full 3L arent as hard as they seem though. a little soildering, a little welding, and a little bit of rubber fuel line hosing and clamps. just fyi
 
As for power difference with non-svt components on a ported motor. A good guess would be 180-190whp (non svt) vs 190-210whp (with SVT UIM/LIM/TB). Add headers, intake, exhaust and it will push the numbers up a bit more for both cases. It's hard to pin down but that's probably a good estimate based on the dynos I've seen. For those that like ported builds SVT parts are pretty easy/cheap to find now.


aboythatskates said:
the requirements that blackcoog posted for the full 3L arent as hard as they seem though. a little soildering, a little welding, and a little bit of rubber fuel line hosing and clamps. just fyi
Click to expand...

True, none of it's extremely hard just tedious and if you know ahead of time it makes it easier.
 
Thanks for the info. Right now I'm just trying to balance my wants vs. my budget, and trying to get the most "bang for the buck" if you will. I've got a very lofty goal of driving to Cougarfest 2013 next July, so the easier/cheaper the better, but on the other hand, I don't want to go too cheap and end up shorting myself power and drivability.
 
Best bang for the buck imo would be a full 3L swap. My full Taurus 3L put down 210whp with just a sri, headers and exhaust. Swapping tming covers isn't a difficult task and it really simplifies the swap since you keep nearly all the 3L except for the timing cover. Plus Taurus 3Ls are cheaper from what I've found... No problems with hood clearance on my 05 intake.
 
Split port would be easiest and cheapest. The intakes and exhaust can always come later, but headers and the svt cams would be a good thing to install while the engine is out. I am a fan of the oval port 3L swaps but they are more work and will cost more money. Its up to you, I would say doing the split port swap you wont have to spend as much money and have the car back on the road sooner. It might be wrong, but you could hunt for a CSVT with a blown motor and use all the SVT parts off of it on the cougar and put the stock 2.5 in the contour for DD duty. At the end of the day your going to have a 3L which will blow your old 2.5 away.
 
Blackcoog said:
Other issues for the full 3L swaps:
-You need to build a custom throttle body bracket for the 3L intakes
-The 3L injectors will not connect to the stock harness so you'll have to deal with that since you're going that route.
-Most of the vacuum lines will have to be cut up and re-routed
-The injector harness doesn't fit very well around the 3L intakes so you need to trim some of the plastic casing off.
-The throttle position sensor connector doesn't reach so you'll want to extend it. You could force it in a pinch but it's really tight.
-The coil pack will need a custom mount
Click to expand...

I'm gonna make a few comments/suggestions on things I learned when I did an '04 Taurus 3L install on my '00 SVT...

1.) You don't need a custom throttle body bracket. Use the bracket that comes with an '04 taurus that bolts to the TB. You can then use the taurus throttle cable (just move the Contour's firewall rubber grommet over) and get a cruise cable from a 99-04 V6 Mustang. This will bolt right up and works well with ZERO modifications. The mustang Cruise cable is slightly long but if you play with the routing you can snake it in and make it look factory.
2.) Since you have a return vehicle you could swap to 'returnless' injector harness. It works just fine but there are 3 main differences (Injector connectors, Oil Pressure Sensor Connector & Front O2 Connector). You will also have an additional plug for the fuel pressure sensor that won't be used. You could also splice the injector portion of the harness over since you'd have it from the 3L engine you get. Just make sure you do a good job splicing (solder it, heat shrink, etc... no crimp connections!).
3.) Yep, vac lines and routing are different. I picked up an assorted set of tees and connectors from the local auto parts store as well as one of the sections of vacuum line and just cut to fit. Using Contour/Taurus parts and this kit I was able to set it up so it looked factory.
4.) For the injector harness, I removed all plastic, set the harness on the engine and re-wrapped the harness with electrical tape. Be sure to use a good quality electrical tape as the cheapo stuff will break down.
5.) While you're rerouting the injector harness, take the TPS/TB connector into account. I learned that you can run a 3L TB with a different sensor than what comes with it that rotates the connector 180 degrees putting the connector towards the engine. This should allow you enough room that you won't need to extend the wiring. I'm not sure what the TPS was off of as I had it in a parts bin but I can guarantee you it was either a Contour or a Taurus.
6.) Yep, you definitely need to find a good way to mount the coil pack (may need to extend wires) or build a COP harness. There was a good thread on this a while back that has a wiring diagram.

Blackcoog is absolutely right on these and there are some challenges. I just wanted to offer some solutions and things I learned from the builds I've done. Hopefully someone can use some of this information. :)
 
Well it looks like I will be doing this in two stages. My primary winter job has slowed down too much to keep me on, so I got laid off from there over the weekend. Thankfully my other job I've had for nearly 4 years still has me on for part-time, and they are in their busiest time with Polar Express, so they can put me right in and get me hours for the next month or so. It just sets my budget back a bit, and I've changed my plans a little bit as a result. For now, I am just going to get a new transmission and have it cleaned up and put an LSD in it, and keep going with my current 2.5. It has been running great and I've taken very good care of it, so I feel comfortable going back with that again. My #1 goal is to go to Cougarfest next July, so I need to stick with a realistic plan of having my car running in time to save up the money to take that trip.

On the subject of transmissions, does Terry Haines still built MTX-75's? And if he does, what is the best way to reach him? If I can get my built transmission done now, that's a lot less money I need to shell out later when I do the engine swap sometime next year (probably next winter, just save my money through the year and have it also built right).
 
Found his contact info and will be sending him an email. I was figuring around $2k for a fully built transmission, so that sounds like it's in the ballpark of what I was guessing. Splitting it up like this may be a blessing in disguise, as it breaks up my costs, and takes care of one issue big issue for the future with a built 3L.
 
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