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Cylinder Head Port and Polish Flow Testing

CSVT#49

CSVT#49

Addicted CEG'er
Joined
May 28, 2004
Messages
6,768
Location
Andover, MN
So guys I'm tittering on edge on what I should do on this. Here are my options...

Before and After P&P flow test on one cylinder = $110
Before and After P&P flow test on all six cylinders = $210

BPE Racing says that historically after their port work a single cylinder flow test is very representative of all the cylinders and flow testing all of them is not really necessary.

So with that said do I spend the extra $100 to see all of the cylinder results or do I just pay $110 to see the results of one cylinder...

Thoughts?!
 
when they say flow testing, they are really just measuring the volume?

if I was you, I'd really want to know all the cylinders and the % deviation of all of them
 
bensenvill said:
when they say flow testing, they are really just measuring the volume?

if I was you, I'd really want to know all the cylinders and the % deviation of all of them
Click to expand...

No when they say flow testing they will be providing me a value in cfm that the port flows at a specific lift, while at a specific pressure, before and after the P&P work. Here is an example of some SBC AFR heads

180ccSH.gif

 
Well gee, you better be working up a set of exactly equal length headers too if precise flow is a huge concern. I would just save the money and trust that they'll all be close in number. I can't imagine a slight variant having that significant of a difference in power. Because at that point, you'll want to make sure the coil will give an equal, hot spark in each cyl, each injector spraying the same volume of fuel with the same pattern etc etc etc. I don't mean to rant, but I've been waiting for this beast to hit the road!!
 
Save the money and give it to me for my turbo build :). Seems as if the build has slowed down a bit Mike?
 
Yes, yes the build has slowed down a bit. However there is a good reason for it. It took forever to figure out what I wanted to do with the heads. Now that I finally have a quote in front of me, which includes everything I wanted, the last decisions I need to make on them are the following..

1. Pay to have only 1 cylinder flow tested or all 6 cylinders.
2. Do I pay to have them do a final cleaning, set spring heights, and assembly the heads for an extra $175

So with that I've decided to only have 1 cylinder flow tested and I'm going to assembly the heads myself since I dropped the money on the equipment to do so.

However that said once I receive the heads back from the P&P I will have 99.9% of everything to assembly the powertrain. I'm not going to assembly it until I'm ready to drop it in the car. The majority of the work that is left is on the body of the car itself. It's too cold to do any work on it. Because as soon as I sand everything down there will be exposed metal in some spots, which I will need to primer. However with my limited garage space (everything needed to be brought in for the winter) I don't have a means to paint it. So I'm stuck waiting until the weather heats up to a point where I can clear everything out of the garage again, which won't be until April if I'm lucky. It would be nice if I had access to a large garage where I could actually get some work done on it. I may start inquiring to some friends of mine that have larger garages (pull barns) if I can bring it over and get some work done on it, but the reality is I would only have time on the weekends to get the work done. That may not work so well as I'm not sure if I can tie up their garage space for that long.

Now all of that said the one thing I have been working on is rewiring the engine harness. That has been going well. My next steps are to completely remove the rest of the dash and work on how I'm going to route the rest of the harness and power distribution block.
 
wantsansvt said:
quick question how much are they charging to P&P the heads?
Click to expand...

It all depends on what you want to do...

Here is a breakdown on the price list of things I purchased...

Stage II porting - V6 - 4 valve ----------- $450
Additional port and polish work 1.5hrs (I added this to have the full ports done rather then just openings) ------ $180
Surface & Debur cylinder heads -V6 - up to 0.020" -------- $70
Bead Blast Steel valves - 24 Valves ------------ $56
Profile & Swirl polish valves 1.5hrs ------------ $135
Face, Backcut, & Tip steel valves - 24 valves ----------- $102
Flow Test 1 cylinder, before & after, supply data - change over time ------------- $110

Grand Total ------ $1,103.00

I have a full price list if interested. Another thing to keep in mind is that the heads as they are receiving them are already disassembled, bead blasted and completely cleaned by me. If you were to send them the heads as you took them off your engine it would be a lot more expensive.
 
Just thought I'd update this thread. Here are the results from my flow testing, which I also posted in my build thread.

bpeflowplot.jpg
 
Brokendown said:
I am guessing Intake #1 is the before? If that's true, I would say 225 CFMs isn't that bad for stock. Did you get velocity readings by any chance?
Click to expand...

Intake #1 is the lower dark line intake #2 is after the port and polish work, same thing for exhaust 1 and 2. I've got a full chart in a PDF, but I dont think it will read good if I try to convert it into a JPEG (small print) however I'll try. Give me a bit and I'll load it up.
 
Flow Chart

Flow Chart

Here is the chart, I uploaded it to a 17" screen size on imageshack so it's big but at least you can read the print. They spelt my name wrong, but then again everyone does :laugh:

riesflow1chart.jpg
 
Nice chart - did they flow them at 25" or 28"? It says tested pressure was 25" which is cool because you can directly compare to the stock heads, but why would they convert it? Why wouldn't they just test it at 28" if they wanted those numbers? I learned how to flow test on a Superflow 600... Did they flow the stock heads? Or does anyone have that information?

What kind of cams are you using again? I am sorry but I don't want to read back through this thread... If I remember correctly the valve lift on SVT cams was around .400", so it would be sweet if you got cams that had a valve lift of .550". That looks about the point where the flow plateaus.

Just a thought, but it would be nice if you started a new thread and the first few posts just updates everything. If there is a good reference point of all the stuff you are using, let me know!
 
Well I've got all of this in my build thread so people can use it as a reference point. I also have most of the information about the heads in this thread (or so I thought) so that if people where interested in only a port and polish job then they could reference this thread.

Anyway they tested it at 25 and converted it to 28, not sure, but that is what they did. This is the first set of heads I've had flow tested. As for the cams my 05 3L cams have the same lift as the SVT cams, the duration is a little different but yea. The max lift on these cams are 9.8mm or 0.385". Searching around the only upgrade I could find for a cam was CAT Cam's rally/race came which they advertise to have a 10.7mm max lift or 0.421". Apparently SHO-Source has an option for cam grinds, but I'm not sure what the spec of the cam would be. Another point is I will be running a garret turbo so I'll have that going for me as well.

Another comment about the lift though, I'm not sure what I have left for valve to piston clearance with the diamond racing pistons. The last thing I want is to smack a valve with a piston and screw over my valvetrain.
 
Yeah, if you are worried about clearance, reliefs can always be cut (to a point). I know the cylinder heads have rockers, but do they have a ratio that is involved? Or do they calculate that into the equation? But if I were you, I would almost go with the SVT cams for your car. I am a big fan of the 3L cams, in fact I have them in my 3L. But if you are building a car that's going to be seeing some track time, I would use the SVT cams to get the longer duration up top and be able to wind out the car more. In my opinion, 3L cams are really for a street car because they have that great low end torque, but I doubt you are looking for low end torque instead of high end power.

But about the whole valve lift, according to your flow chart, your heads still have a lot left in them, so only opening the valve to 0.400" isn't really going to maximize the port job. Port work is less import with a turbo because the air is already pressurized. Pressurized air can go through smaller openings a lot easier than the normal vacuum an engine creates. So if you are running stock cams I would have run stock heads with a touch of DIY porting on that inside radius and in the throat area. If you paid all this money for some nice heads (and I know this is really easy for ME to say cause it isn't my money), but I would put some money into some better cams. Otherwise a lot of that money you spent is really kind of going down the drain.
 
The work that BPE did for me was just to smooth out the ports, basically just removing the casting imperfections. No enlarging was completed, it was just piece of mind to have had the work done by a company that one had done work on these Duratec heads before (for Noble owners) and two to have a professional, with a lot more porting experience then me, do the work. I gained roughly a 13% increase in flow overall on the head so I'm satisfied. Could I gain a lot more by custom cams with more lift sure. Is it worth it... probably not. It would involve more work on custom pistons that are already assembled to rods and sized piston rings and ready to go into the block, spending more money on custom cams and in the end it will be power gained that may not even make it to the ground. I will still hit my peak horsepower goal of 500 with the setup I have. Even that amount of power in this car is a bit much, but its more of a 'look at the capability of my engine build' then anything else. I want to be able to drive it on the street and enjoy it on a daily basis. So realistically I'll have it tuned to run 375hp, to which I have a much better chance of getting to the ground with the rest of the supporting modifications on the car.
 
CSVT#49 said:
I'll have it tuned to run 375hp, to which I have a much better chance of getting to the ground with the rest of the supporting modifications on the car.
Click to expand...


Ding, Ding, Ding. We have a winner. I agree with your ideas about max power on the street. Sure in 3rd gear and higher you could probably add 50 hp or more. I am interested in what you will do with the suspension to help get some power on the ground. Right now I can only give it half throttle in first and second or it smokes the tires badly. With your adjustable boost that will be far better than my right foot control.

My son and I can't wait to see how your project proceeds.
 
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