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Charging system trouble

A

Aussie Ford

Hard-core CEG'er
Joined
Sep 3, 2006
Messages
2,033
Location
Portland, Orygun
I can use some help here..... My battery light is on steady and there is no CEL indication. Everything works, but at 2k I have battery volts (12) across the terminals. I checked the megafuse it is good and the fog lights work everything seems fine. Well I knew there was a problem with the alternator about 5 months ago so I bought a new one on sale at Auto Zone, and waited for mine to quit. Yesterday I'm headed off to work and the darn Bat light is on, so I get my spare Tour and off to work I go. Today I did all the checks and changed out the darn thing thanks to Ray's How To that is. (with the help of the other input too) Anyway, Hey I'm done, start the car and nothing has changed.......!:cry:

Where to go from here? Help I admit it I'm lost.. It ought to work and it don't :(

Thanks,
AF
 
Diagrams to help,

Diagrams to help,

Check for good wiring at your starter, battery post to alternator B+, F5 to alternator, gray jumper wire .75GY. Maybe have old alternator tested see if it was really bad..

Alternator.gif


and

Foglamps.gif
 
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Is it reasonable to presume that if the fog lights are working then then the gray jumper and F5 are good?

I have checked B+ to the battery it is good, I did not check yet from the bat to the starter. I will do that.

The gray jumper must be in that black connector I didn't check any of those three wires. (yet)

The car starts and runs no melt down of a shorted battery wire indicated, so is it reasonable to presume that the wire from the battery to the starter is good?
I had that wire short out on a Jeep and it is not a pretty sight. First everything went black and the thing stopped dead. Then the wire just melted off all the insulation and glowed red (it happened on a rainy night of course as I was driving)

Thanks,
AF
 
No, gray jumper goes to field coils, F5 would be good, wire to alternator may not be good, if foglamps work.

I'd say battery to starter are good, but megafuse wiring may not be.

Glowing wires, that happened to my neighbor's Intrepid, scary.
 
I have checked from B+ to battery..... good, that included a separate check across the mega fuse.

gray jumper goes to field coils, F5 would be good, wire to alternator may not be good .... ok I understand, got any particular good way to check this that doesn't involve pulling the alt? lol

AF
 
Check wiring from battery to ground (especially the one which goes below the battery tray).
 
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Thanks Tony, Will do as soon as it quits raining LOL. Fortunately I have a spare Tour with gas prices going back up :nonono:

I filled my 02 Ram today darn near $60.....

Regards,
AF
 
Well we have a plan as soon as it stops raining. The kid is going to open connector C3001 and check pins #8, & 16 which are the wires other than the jumper on the alt connector. The other end of the wires go to the instrument panel bat light and the power side of the foglights.

BTW my BJB is different than most of them must be a 99-00 thing, and my FG's are on F3 - 20 amp in lieu of F5 - 15 amp as it shows in the drawings.

Here's some pics:
BJB closed.jpg
BJB open 2.jpg
BJB cover 2.jpg
OM BJB a1.jpg
OM BJB 2.jpg

Thanks for the help, I'll pass along updates and results as they occur.

Regards,
AF
 
Like stated previously, check you're ground, battery cable from battery to alternator.

You may want to load test your battery as well, not something to rule out....

A good charging system should have between 13 and 15 volts when the car is running.

I would think the new alternator would be under warranty, if it is, you should be able to get it tested and replaced if it is at fault.
 
Thanks my friend, I should have said, I had the kid do that and it checked out OK. The battery was also checked as well as the starter.

The new alt has a life time warranty on it from Auto Zone. If all else checks out good I will pull it and have it checked too. BTW the other alt checked out good too, on multiple tests.

Thanks,
AF
 
Aussie Ford said:
Thanks my friend, I should have said, I had the kid do that and it checked out OK. The battery was also checked as well as the starter.

The new alt has a life time warranty on it from Auto Zone. If all else checks out good I will pull it and have it checked too. BTW the other alt checked out good too, on multiple tests.

Thanks,
AF
Click to expand...

Thats odd, what exactly does the book say about the battery light. Does it say what could cause that light to come on?
 
CSVT_2004 said:
Thats odd, what exactly does the book say about the battery light. Does it say what could cause that light to come on?
Click to expand...
Many things are a possible and it depends on how it is on, full time, key on, blinking, etc. In my case it is on with the key, and my alt is not charging so I am addressing the no charging first.
DIAGNOSIS AND TESTING

Charging System
Inspection and Verification
Symptom Chart

Pinpoint Tests

PINPOINT TEST A: : THE SYSTEM DOES NOT CHARGE (Index)
Charging System

PINPOINT TEST A: : THE SYSTEM DOES NOT CHARGE
A1: CHECK FOR POOR GROUNDS
A1 CHECK FOR POOR GROUNDS
1 (there is a diagram here that I can't copy and paste for some reason......)
2 Measure the voltage between generator casing and negative ( - ) battery terminal.

Is the voltage less than 0.25 volts?

Yes Go to «A2».

No CLEAN and REPAIR grounds as required. TEST the system for normal operation.
A2: CHECK FOR OPEN "B+" CIRCUIT - CIRCUIT 20 (BK)
A3: CHECK FOR OPEN "A" CIRCUIT
A4: CHECK FOR OPEN FIELD CIRCUIT
A5: CHECK CIRCUIT 15S - BA9 (GN/BK)
A6: CHECK VOLTAGE DROP IN "A" CIRCUIT
A7: CHECK FIELD TURN ON
A8: CHECK VOLTAGE DROP IN "B" CIRCUIT
A9: CHECK FOR OPEN STATOR PHASE


PINPOINT TEST B: : THE SYSTEM OVERCHARGES (Index)

PINPOINT TEST C: : THE CHARGING SYSTEM WARNING INDICATOR STAYS ON (Index)
Charging System

PINPOINT TEST C: : THE CHARGING SYSTEM WARNING INDICATOR STAYS ON
C1: CHECK FOR OPEN "A" CIRCUIT
C2: CHECK CIRCUIT 15S - BA9 (GN/BK)
C3: CHECK CIRCUIT 15S - BA9 (GN/BK) FOR SHORT TO GROUND


PINPOINT TEST D: : THE CHARGING SYSTEM WARNING INDICATOR IS INOPERATIVE (Index)

PINPOINT TEST E: : THE CHARGING SYSTEM WARNING INDICATOR FLICKERS/IS INTERMITTENT (Index)

PINPOINT TEST F: : THE GENERATOR IS NOISY (Index)

PINPOINT TEST G: : RADIO INTERFERENCE (Index)

PINPOINT TEST H: : THE BATTERY DOES NOT HOLD A CHARGE (Index)

Under every step there is a proceedure, which leads to another step if not fixed there, until you get to step 4,112... sell the damm car and go have an adult beverage :D
 
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SUCCESS AT LAST!!!
This is what I did: today I just started over at step one of the alt not charging on the Ford CD. I found after removing the pass side wheel and the engine access covers I could reach in and remove the connectors from the alt. My goal was not to remove the alt if at all possible. 10-06-07_1139.jpg

Next I figured since I might need to access both leads on the battery I made some jumpers and connected them to the battery posts10-06-07_1136.jpg
then dropped the other end down below the engine so I could reach them with my meter.10-06-07_1140.jpg
At about the third step I found I couldn't get to the test point on the back of the alt so I changed the plan and started checking out the wires to the connectors. First test was the easy one on the jumper, it was good. Then I went after that wire to the F5 - foglights. I inserted a small spade pin into the connector and attached the other end to one of the wires I had hanging down there. That made a jumper I could test with on the top side after first removing the end from the battery. Since I didn't have and F5 I tried the F3 which is my foglights. Not the same wire, and I started thinking about opening up connector C3001. It is the big one by the Dr side strut tower that is bolted together. I decided to first test the the remaining wires at the fuse locations, and hit pay dirt with F2.10-06-07_1138.jpg

All in all, I think changing out the alt is not necessarily as big an issue as it is lead to be. After getting started by raising the car, removing the front wheels, opening the access in the passenger side, the first thing to do is apply PB Blaster to the upper and lower bolts. The easiest way to access that top bolt IMO is from the drivers side with a long extension that includes a swivel closer the the DR side that allows it to drop down a bit and access out the wheel well. You definitely need a breaker bar I used a 1/2" drive so the bar is about 2' long. I did try going in through the top and yes you can get access there but you have to remove more stuff to get to it. The bottom bolt is accessed from the bottom between the Y pipe and the transmission. You do have to pop the tie rod end out so you can remove the alt out of that area. The little L bracket is also accessed from below. There are several comments about how hard it is to reinstall the new one, and about it binding up. Well the reason for that is there are some bushings that are hardened and in a C shape. on the ends when you look up there it looks similar to a lock washer. Ray talks about them in his how to, but I don't think he had them figured out. Key here is they slide. I squirted a little PB Blaster on them and was able to free them up so install was easy. When you tighten the bolts that forces them in and tight against the alt tabs.


ADULT BEVERAGE TIME :D with out that red glow...... LOL

Regards,
AF
 
Last edited:
Aussie Ford said:
SUCCESS AT LAST!!!
This is what I did: today I just started over at step one of the alt not charging on the Ford CD. I found after removing the pass side wheel and the engine access covers I could reach in and remove the connectors from the alt. My goal was not to remove the alt if at all possible. View attachment 1827

Next I figured since I might need to access both leads on the battery I made some jumpers and connected them to the battery postsView attachment 1825
then dropped the other end down below the engine so I could reach them with my meter.View attachment 1828
At about the third step I found I couldn't get to the test point on the back of the alt so I changed the plan and started checking out the wires to the connectors. First test was the easy one on the jumper, it was good. Then I went after that wire to the F5 - foglights. I inserted a small spade pin into the connector and attached the other end to one of the wires I had hanging down there. That made a jumper I could test with on the top side after first removing the end from the battery. Since I didn't have and F5 I tried the F3 which is my foglights. Not the same wire, and I started thinking about opening up connector C3001. It is the big one by the Dr side strut tower that is bolted together. I decided to first test the the remaining wires at the fuse locations, and hit pay dirt with F2.View attachment 1826

All in all, I think changing out the alt is not necessarily as big an issue as it is lead to be. After getting started by raising the car, removing the front wheels, opening the access in the passenger side, the first thing to do is apply PB Blaster to the upper and lower bolts. The easiest way to access that top bolt IMO is from the drivers side with a long extension that includes a swivel closer the the DR side that allows it to drop down a bit and access out the wheel well. You definitely need a breaker bar I used a 1/2" drive so the bar is about 2' long. I did try going in through the top and yes you can get access there but you have to remove more stuff to get to it. The bottom bolt is accessed from the bottom between the Y pipe and the transmission. You do have to pop the tie rod end out so you can remove the alt out of that area. The little L bracket is also accessed from below. There are several comments about how hard it is to reinstall the new one, and about it binding up. Well the reason for that is there are some bushings that are hardened and in a C shape. on the ends when you look up there it looks similar to a lock washer. Ray talks about them in his how to, but I don't think he had them figured out. Key here is they slide. I squirted a little PB Blaster on them and was able to free them up so install was easy. When you tighten the bolts that forces them in and tight against the alt tabs.


ADULT BEVERAGE TIME :D with out that red glow...... LOL

Regards,
AF
Click to expand...

Pics didn't show...
 
BTW Folks, thanks for the help in working this out...... seems no one has the proper layout of the 99's not even on the Ford CD. It would be nice if someone with a 00 CD could check and see if it is correct on there.

Regards,
AF
 
Sorry for necro posting, but I have the same problem. While looking around for the F2 fuse in my car, I noticed that my 99 csvt has a totally different fuse layout than the one pictured above. It looks like AussieFord was right in that his is the same layout as the 2000 fuse box as shown in the 2000 user manual. F2 is listed as alternator.
http://www.motorcraftservice.com/pubs/content/~woycnt/~mus~len/41/00cntog1e.pdf

Unfortunately my 99 has the older fuse layout and the alternator fuse must be mixed with another fuse. Anyway, just thought I would post since the 99 vs 00 question had been asked.
 
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