I second andreslobo, could be broken band. Band needed for 2nd and 4th gears. Could possibly also be a hydraulic or broken part in servo under that 3 inch round cover under bottom front of trans, held in with snap ring. Servo is what clamps the band tight. That servo has one heck of a spring under it, requires special tool to compress cover slightly so snap ring can be removed. Under cover is a piston/rod combo that if seal is blown or breakage of some sort could render band dead without it's actually being broke. That can be checked without pulling trans. Band can be semi checked with servo piston removed by inserting long screwdriver up in piston rod pilot hole to engage the dimpled end of band. Should be able to push into it and if not broke it will tighten up with resistance. If broke will just rattle around because other end not anchored down. Shop may have done all this already and come to same conclusion.
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CD4E, sudden problems
- Thread starter Matt R
- Start date
There is a tranny rebuild how-to with pictures by btrautman.Thanks. I'll check with the friend who is helping me pull the tranny. He may be willing to give the band replacement a shot. Too bad there's no nice how-to like for so many other things on this site.
http://www.contour.org/ubbthreads/s...531563&page=0&view=collapsed&sb=5&o=7&fpart=1
andreslobo
Hard-core CEG'er
want to be brave?
want to be brave?
Okay, band replacement.
1. I think this one CD4E ATSG AUTOMATIC TRANSMISSION REBUILD MANUAL very practical, shows you how to use old parts and common tools to do the rebuild.
2. If you can avoid the temptation to 'rebuild' a trans do this.
a. Get a filter, its seal, case half gasket, valve body cover gasket, the thrust bearing that always breaks (the first one you encounter on the oil pump housing just under the torque converter side of the cases), new servo cover, and oil pump to casing seal along with your new band.
b. You have to take all of the parts off of the oil pump housing and then take the oil pump out of the cases, you shouldn't need to pull any clips, just remove by hand. Now you will need to remove the valve body to gain access to use a channel lock to remove the servo cover and the oil filter seal. Remember remove only what is neccessary, the manual tells to to take out way too many parts.
c. slide out the broken band and try to find the broken parts.
d. replace the band and if you are really brave just put everything back together, a couple of cut off bolts will work fine to align the oil pump assey to the cases and the valve body to the cases as well.
e. If not so brave, make the servo adjusting tool as recommended in the manual above and test the servo travel. I did and wasted my time.
f. Put everything back together and enjoy your 4 forward gears.
g. Total cost should be less than $100 and alot of your time.
Best of luck.
want to be brave?
Okay, band replacement.
1. I think this one CD4E ATSG AUTOMATIC TRANSMISSION REBUILD MANUAL very practical, shows you how to use old parts and common tools to do the rebuild.
2. If you can avoid the temptation to 'rebuild' a trans do this.
a. Get a filter, its seal, case half gasket, valve body cover gasket, the thrust bearing that always breaks (the first one you encounter on the oil pump housing just under the torque converter side of the cases), new servo cover, and oil pump to casing seal along with your new band.
b. You have to take all of the parts off of the oil pump housing and then take the oil pump out of the cases, you shouldn't need to pull any clips, just remove by hand. Now you will need to remove the valve body to gain access to use a channel lock to remove the servo cover and the oil filter seal. Remember remove only what is neccessary, the manual tells to to take out way too many parts.
c. slide out the broken band and try to find the broken parts.
d. replace the band and if you are really brave just put everything back together, a couple of cut off bolts will work fine to align the oil pump assey to the cases and the valve body to the cases as well.
e. If not so brave, make the servo adjusting tool as recommended in the manual above and test the servo travel. I did and wasted my time.
f. Put everything back together and enjoy your 4 forward gears.
g. Total cost should be less than $100 and alot of your time.
Best of luck.
andreslobo
Hard-core CEG'er
oh yeah try this
oh yeah try this
First unplug your transmission from the car, this plug is under the battery. The car will go into a limp mode that puts it into 2nd. If the band is broken your car won't move.
oh yeah try this
First unplug your transmission from the car, this plug is under the battery. The car will go into a limp mode that puts it into 2nd. If the band is broken your car won't move.
I'll have to see if the mechanic helping me pull the trans is willing to crack open the case and give the band repair a shot. It doesn't look that complicated.
The how-to pictures won't show up... so I don't know how useful that is.
As far as pulling the trans from the car and cracking open the case, is there anything else I should replace while it's out? I'm thinking the tranny mounts at least. Should I worry the 2nd/OD band is going to break soon? And what's a good place to get replacement parts from?
The how-to pictures won't show up... so I don't know how useful that is.
As far as pulling the trans from the car and cracking open the case, is there anything else I should replace while it's out? I'm thinking the tranny mounts at least. Should I worry the 2nd/OD band is going to break soon? And what's a good place to get replacement parts from?
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Check the pump driveshaft, that's the hex shaped long shaft exposed when converter is pulled. Make sure it's not about to strip out. If you buy another CHECK THE LENGTH, easy to get the wrong length one. 2 sizes on CD4E. Check forward clutch cylinder around the big snap ring for cracks that will allow pieces to break off end of cylinder. Soak the new band in tranny fluid so it's not dry on startup. Once you have new band, high likelihood that something else will fail first as long as trans put back together right. The washer andreslobo referred to is the direct thrust washer, usually black plastic. It usually is chewed up because of the funny thrust surface it works against. Make sure when putting all parts back together that they go back in ALL the way, a place or two where something may seem to be all the way in but is NOT, will destroy trans if you manage to get it back together. You can prime the oil system by using a drill on the pump driveshaft after pulling converter so trans goes up with oil quick.
andreslobo
Hard-core CEG'er
Only one band
Only one band
The trans has only one band, so no need to worry. The band anchor has a couple of bolts or rivets and it appears that the holes for them create a stress riser and that is where the breakage begins.
Good point on checking the oil pump shaft, it is said that they do twist and if twisted then you may have deeper problems. Lucky me no problems.
If you haven't replaced the TSS, now is a good time to push it out while you have the pump out and clean up the TSS bore so that the new one will just slide in. I used some scotch brite, worked like a charm.
On the transmission mount, before you pull anything look at the pump end of the trans, if it is resting on the subframe then you should find out why (maybe trans mount). Mine was and I was too cheap to buy a new mount so I 'adjusted' the mount when I reinstalled it and it bought me about 3/8" clearance. Enough for a cheap car.
The haynes manual and the auto trans book are more than adequate.
Only one band
The trans has only one band, so no need to worry. The band anchor has a couple of bolts or rivets and it appears that the holes for them create a stress riser and that is where the breakage begins.
Good point on checking the oil pump shaft, it is said that they do twist and if twisted then you may have deeper problems. Lucky me no problems.
If you haven't replaced the TSS, now is a good time to push it out while you have the pump out and clean up the TSS bore so that the new one will just slide in. I used some scotch brite, worked like a charm.
On the transmission mount, before you pull anything look at the pump end of the trans, if it is resting on the subframe then you should find out why (maybe trans mount). Mine was and I was too cheap to buy a new mount so I 'adjusted' the mount when I reinstalled it and it bought me about 3/8" clearance. Enough for a cheap car.
The haynes manual and the auto trans book are more than adequate.
Pump shafts I've seen didn't twist so much as just shear the corners off the drive hex to where no drive. Even new part does not have a lot of material there, have seen aftermarket new part that was somewhat beveled instead of sharp cornered meaning half the wear effectively already there even though part not even used yet. If buy shaft, look for discoloration showing heat treat done on BOTH ends. Part needs to be installed in converter and torqued to 10 ft. lbs. I think to test if converter stripped inside. You used to be able to buy pump insert separate from Ford, that's the part that other end of shaft goes into. Now you must buy an entire pump assembly to get that $5 part. Yay, Ford.
andreslobo
Hard-core CEG'er
10 inch pounds
10 inch pounds
The 10 inch pound spec is for the maximum torque allowed for starting to turn the pump. This is to check to verify that the pump was assembled correctly and that there is no binding in the pump. It is not a check for the torque converter. The only thing that part of the torque converter does is to turn the oil pump shaft.
With no real tools I checked the 'hand' torque for the pump before I dissassembled it and then checked again after I reassembled it. But you are going to be much braver than I and not even open up the pump, so no worry.
If you have a pressure gage (up to 300 lbs) you might tap into the pressure port on the pump end of the trans and check the pressures as recommended by the trans manual you will buy. That will give you a great indication of the pump condition. Mine was near the low end of the spec both pre and post rebuild.
I have over 10,000 miles on the trans, including a 3,000 mile road trip through the desert towing a motorcycle at 80 mph. No trans cooler, no problem.
Best of luck
10 inch pounds
The 10 inch pound spec is for the maximum torque allowed for starting to turn the pump. This is to check to verify that the pump was assembled correctly and that there is no binding in the pump. It is not a check for the torque converter. The only thing that part of the torque converter does is to turn the oil pump shaft.
With no real tools I checked the 'hand' torque for the pump before I dissassembled it and then checked again after I reassembled it. But you are going to be much braver than I and not even open up the pump, so no worry.
If you have a pressure gage (up to 300 lbs) you might tap into the pressure port on the pump end of the trans and check the pressures as recommended by the trans manual you will buy. That will give you a great indication of the pump condition. Mine was near the low end of the spec both pre and post rebuild.
I have over 10,000 miles on the trans, including a 3,000 mile road trip through the desert towing a motorcycle at 80 mph. No trans cooler, no problem.
Best of luck
No, no, I am aware of the inch pound pump check, there is another check done to ensure converter is not stripped inside. It is done with a higher force, foot pounds. Had a Tempo, trans suddenly died, total no move condition. Took apart, trans used but all OK, at least to outward view. Could not figure out what happened until did that check. Pump shaft would go in converter by hand and seemed tight, but when torque applied as mentioned above, it popped free and started spinning. Changed converter, shaft and pump drive insert, car still running 60K later. Any wear on pump end will also be on converter end, including converter itself.
Looks like I'll be buying a rebuilt tranny from 800700tran out of Florida... since a few people here seem to have bought from them and liked them. So I'll get them to install a CD4E-jr kit, and once I swap out trannys, I'll use my old one as practice for a rebuild.
a. Get a filter, its seal, case half gasket, valve body cover gasket, the thrust bearing that always breaks (the first one you encounter on the oil pump housing just under the torque converter side of the cases), new servo cover, and oil pump to casing seal along with your new band.
From bulkpart.com: I'm trying to figure out what part numbers I need.
filter E96010 $14.84
filter seal 96379A $3.55
VB up/low gaskets 96320 $1.44x2
Band (high energy) B96020B $14.15
Pan side gasket [FONT=Arial, Helvetica][SIZE=-1][FONT=Arial, Helvetica][SIZE=-1]96301F[/SIZE][/FONT][/SIZE][/FONT] $4.15
Servo cover A96904 $3.05
Not sure what thrust bearing I need.
Just not totally sure on which of these gaskets I need: http://www.bulkpart.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=CTGY&Store_Code=2&Category_Code=CD4Egasket
Or could I just get this? http://www.bulkpart.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=2&Product_Code=96002C
andreslobo
Hard-core CEG'er
parts
parts
Matt
You will need the case half gasket as well, I'd add the oil pump outmost o ring or mabye its a seal, I forget, delete the valve body gaskets unless you are going to rebuild the valve body (I didn't). If I remember correctly the valve body does not have a gasket between itself and the trans case.
As for the band, just order the normal band for that trans. I don't know anything about the high energy band, but I doubt it will have a different anchor and that is what likely broke on your band. I can pretty much assure you that the friction material on your broken band is okay. I THINK that using the stock style band is the reason I did not have to 'adjust' my servo pin was that I used a stock band.
The complete gasket set contains everything but the band and filter. but it will tempt you to replace steels, seals, frictions, and the like. If you are going to do the cheap rebuild, don't tempt yourself.
And to wind up the rest of the folks (OMG) who think I am a retard, forget the trans cooler. Yes early models of the cd4e did have problems due to inadequate cooler design in early MAZDAs (there was a tsb to install an external oil cooler to address this problem, but NOT on contours). Over time ford improved and got it right and by time your car was made it was pretty much a moot point.
after all it is just a 4 cylinder dd. Not like you are towing a motorcycle across the desert through mountains is it?
Best of luck
parts
Matt
You will need the case half gasket as well, I'd add the oil pump outmost o ring or mabye its a seal, I forget, delete the valve body gaskets unless you are going to rebuild the valve body (I didn't). If I remember correctly the valve body does not have a gasket between itself and the trans case.
As for the band, just order the normal band for that trans. I don't know anything about the high energy band, but I doubt it will have a different anchor and that is what likely broke on your band. I can pretty much assure you that the friction material on your broken band is okay. I THINK that using the stock style band is the reason I did not have to 'adjust' my servo pin was that I used a stock band.
The complete gasket set contains everything but the band and filter. but it will tempt you to replace steels, seals, frictions, and the like. If you are going to do the cheap rebuild, don't tempt yourself.
And to wind up the rest of the folks (OMG) who think I am a retard, forget the trans cooler. Yes early models of the cd4e did have problems due to inadequate cooler design in early MAZDAs (there was a tsb to install an external oil cooler to address this problem, but NOT on contours). Over time ford improved and got it right and by time your car was made it was pretty much a moot point.
after all it is just a 4 cylinder dd. Not like you are towing a motorcycle across the desert through mountains is it?
Best of luck
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andreslobo
Hard-core CEG'er
thrust washer
thrust washer
Matt
The thrust washer is located IN the trans cases on the main shaft immediately behind the the torque converter side of the case. Some times parts of it stick to the case sometimes they stick to the shaft. Look and you will find it.
It was broken on my car, and from several other posts it has been broken on many others as well. Not expensive but necessary.
the kit you linked to is for a 2003 and up cd4e, don't know if it is the same.
Best of luck
thrust washer
Matt
The thrust washer is located IN the trans cases on the main shaft immediately behind the the torque converter side of the case. Some times parts of it stick to the case sometimes they stick to the shaft. Look and you will find it.
It was broken on my car, and from several other posts it has been broken on many others as well. Not expensive but necessary.
the kit you linked to is for a 2003 and up cd4e, don't know if it is the same.
Best of luck
andreslobo
Hard-core CEG'er
Matt
The oring and gasket sound right.
The washer does not, too cheap. I call it a thrust washer.
I was going to order stuff online, so I got the prices and then went to the transmission supply store in this dinky town. Paid about 10% more to buy in town, but they provided much help. I remember that they had me bring in my broken thrust washer as their book didn't show the correct one. Walked out the with correct one and put it back together with no hassles.
Best of luck
BTW, if you are like most folks you won't get everything you need the first time.
Oh yeah, get about 10 quarts of trans oil. Need most for the trans and the rest of the power steering that you will drain.
The oring and gasket sound right.
The washer does not, too cheap. I call it a thrust washer.
I was going to order stuff online, so I got the prices and then went to the transmission supply store in this dinky town. Paid about 10% more to buy in town, but they provided much help. I remember that they had me bring in my broken thrust washer as their book didn't show the correct one. Walked out the with correct one and put it back together with no hassles.
Best of luck
BTW, if you are like most folks you won't get everything you need the first time.
Oh yeah, get about 10 quarts of trans oil. Need most for the trans and the rest of the power steering that you will drain.
I second andreslobo, could be broken band. Band needed for 2nd and 4th gears. Could possibly also be a hydraulic or broken part in servo under that 3 inch round cover under bottom front of trans, held in with snap ring. Servo is what clamps the band tight. That servo has one heck of a spring under it, requires special tool to compress cover slightly so snap ring can be removed. Under cover is a piston/rod combo that if seal is blown or breakage of some sort could render band dead without it's actually being broke. That can be checked without pulling trans. Band can be semi checked with servo piston removed by inserting long screwdriver up in piston rod pilot hole to engage the dimpled end of band. Should be able to push into it and if not broke it will tighten up with resistance. If broke will just rattle around because other end not anchored down. Shop may have done all this already and come to same conclusion.
I figure I better do this before attempting to pull trans. However, if the piston/rod combo is indeed bad or broken, this would require the trans to be removed and opened anyways, correct?
Andreslobo is right. The washer part number is the one I refer to, goes in the location described on that web page. The one he's talking about is the main end play determining one that comes in several thicknesses I believe. They are color coded, just get the one you have color wise unless you change some major parts. Then you must measure endplay and find the new thickness needed. My manual calls his part the "#10 drive sprocket thrust washer". Goes between the drive sprocket (not the driven, which has differential on it) and the case. If your just changing band, forget the direct one. That one forces you to disassemble the reverse drum from the forward/direct assembly, if that is put back together wrong, a really good chance of burning something up. The reverse clutch hub MUST be assembled to line up oil holes with notches (either 2 or 4 depending on year) or bushing fries from lack of oil. You can avoid all that by leaving that subassembly alone.
The piston/rod and cover can most certainly be serviced or replaced without removing trans or cracking it open. The problem is that the spring behind it is QUITE STOUT and can hurt you if snap ring popped off. There is a special tool to hold cover in a bit while snapring removed, then spring preload slowly removed by backing off a screw holding cover in. An enterprising person could figure out a way to get it off safely. Cover faces down but at a slight angle. A jack placed under it might just slip off because of that angle. However, if you're going toward removing trans anyway, pull the front and rear roll restrictors but leave passenger and driver main mounts fastened up and tight. The entire motor/trans can be swung back and forth then. Place some blocks under the back roll restrictor area to jack up back higher or use a second jack and you may neutral out that angle so that a simple jack can hit the cover and compress it enough to remove it easily. Just an idea, but might work.