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ATX dead and high rpm, what can be the cause?

B

BalusC

CEG'er
Joined
Apr 13, 2009
Messages
57
Location
Willemstad, Curacao, Netherlands Antilles
This morning I was cruising to bring the kids to school. Right before we arrive the school, the car shocks for two or three times very hard and then the ATX didn't respond on gas anymore. It was like N, even when I put it in D or 2. It was a downhilled road, so I let the car roll out until school, it was about 500m. When I brake to make a turn, I noticed that the ATX was "connected" again and shifts back (it was on D at that time). But after 20 meters or so, it lost the "connection" again. I parked the car, turned the car off, brought the kids to school.

When I want to drive again, I started the car, it is working as expected, but when the ATX was about to shift to 2 or when I lift the gas, it died again. It is like N all the time and the engine is stationary at ~1500rpm all the time even when I don't give any gas (it is usually ~750rpm). I turned the engine off, turned back on and then it works again for a while, but when the ATX should shift or when I lift the gas, the ATX died again. The story continues when I turn the engine off and on.

There is no CEL and also no (flashing) OD light. Nothing at all. Just an ATX which decides to stand in N all the time and an engine which decides to run stationair at higher rpm than usual after driving a (short) while.

Any insights? A dead sensor again? Or really a dead ATX?
 
Fluid level is perfect, color is a bit browny, but that's normal for aged ATX fluid. I suspect it's something electrical. The VSS is brand new, so that is excluded.

I found another fact out, idling at high rpm did only occur when I was been above 3500 rpm (at the stage the IRMC should go open), it look like that it doesn't get closed anymore until I turn engine off and on again.
 
I think we all mean the same :)

I discussed with a mechanic, he said that either the ATX brake-band can be broken or that the oil presurre is low (either caused by low oil or by some dead pump). Because the car doesn't drive in all the gears and the oil level was OK according to me, he suspects the pump.

Is there some oil pump in the Contour's ATX?

He also said that I have to check the oil level when the car is warm. Does the level have to be around max then? When I checked it, it was in range, but it was close to min. Where exactly do I have to (re)fill the ATX oil? In the same hose?
 
zorrex said:
MLPS, not MPLS.
Click to expand...

Yep. Typo, sorry.

BalusC said:
I think we all mean the same :)

I discussed with a mechanic, he said that either the ATX brake-band can be broken or that the oil presurre is low (either caused by low oil or by some dead pump). Because the car doesn't drive in all the gears and the oil level was OK according to me, he suspects the pump.

Is there some oil pump in the Contour's ATX?

He also said that I have to check the oil level when the car is warm. Does the level have to be around max then? When I checked it, it was in range, but it was close to min. Where exactly do I have to (re)fill the ATX oil? In the same hose?
Click to expand...

Yes, there's a pump in the ATX to pressurize the ATX fluid in order to drive the internal workings - it's hydraulic.

Level doesn't need to be at max, as long as it's within the range. Refill is through the dipstick hole.
 
oh yea... hahaha i knew thats what we were talking about... yea... transmission OIL... hahahahhaha, then yea... your right...
 
Linkman said:
Yep. Typo, sorry.
Yes, there's a pump in the ATX to pressurize the ATX fluid in order to drive the internal workings - it's hydraulic.
Click to expand...
Interesting, where exactly is it located? And a hydraulic pump means that it is fully mechanic and thus not controlled by some electronics? So that I can exclude bad sensors and/or wirings from this specific problem?
Level doesn't need to be at max, as long as it's within the range. Refill is through the dipstick hole.
Click to expand...
OK, thank you.
 
Kind of similar thing happened to me this morning. My ATX(CD4E) started banging and rpm went up and down. The care was bucking or so.
It however didn't disengage as it happened to you. I made it back home safely but I am sure something is going on. I know mine isn't VSS either; speedo working just fine.
I started a thread about it today I will see what people would say. I would also read about MLPS and watch this thread closely...
 
For my reference, you started this thread: http://contour.org/ceg-vb/showthread.php?t=46792 I'll watch your thread as well. And yes, I also found it hard to monitor the fluid level at the dipstick when the engine is running.

Yesterday afternoon I finally got my car towed home with help of a mate. This weekend I'll take a closer look. I'll start trying to add more ATX fluid and see what happens.
 
BalusC said:
Interesting, where exactly is it located? And a hydraulic pump means that it is fully mechanic and thus not controlled by some electronics? So that I can exclude bad sensors and/or wirings from this specific problem?

OK, thank you.
Click to expand...

Pump is internal to the ATX, that's as specific as I can get :) , and it is computer controlled - the ECU commands the shift solenoids, based on the vehicle speed sensor, turbine speed sensor, and the MLPS (and possibly more inputs, but at least those).
 
Linkman said:
Pump is internal to the ATX, that's as specific as I can get :) , and it is computer controlled - the ECU commands the shift solenoids, based on the vehicle speed sensor, turbine speed sensor, and the MLPS (and possibly more inputs, but at least those).
Click to expand...

While the pump is internal to the ATX (all automatics have one), it is NOT computer controlled - only the solenoids are so controlled.

There is a set of hydraulic diagnostic ports on the CD4E so that a pressure gauge can be hooked up to monitor several of the hydraulic circuits. See the service manual for details.

Look, the bottom line is this: If it doesn't move in reverse or 2nd and the fluid level is normal, the transmission is busted internally and is going to have to be rebuilt or replaced. There's no way to sugar-coat that news.
 
BalusC said:
For my reference, you started this thread: http://contour.org/ceg-vb/showthread.php?t=46792 I'll watch your thread as well. And yes, I also found it hard to monitor the fluid level at the dipstick when the engine is running.
Click to expand...

Yes, you are correct. That's thread I started. I am still driving my car(have no other ride at the moment). When driving very slowly(40mph top) and being easy on the accelerator, it drives fine.

They recommened that since it banged several times, I should change the fluid again. I guess the fluid goes bad when this happens.
I will do it on the weekend.
 
iskoos said:
Yes, you are correct. That's thread I started. I am still driving my car(have no other ride at the moment). When driving very slowly(40mph top) and being easy on the accelerator, it drives fine.

They recommened that since it banged several times, I should change the fluid again. I guess the fluid goes bad when this happens.
I will do it on the weekend.
Click to expand...


It doesn't go bad under those circumstances. Now, if you had been getting slippage, then, yes, the fluid may have been contaminated from friction materials.
 
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