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Electrical short I think?

H

Heywood

Hard-core CEG'er
Joined
Jan 24, 2006
Messages
1,422
Location
Montreal
On my way home from work tonight I developed a strange electrical problem. My abs and park brake lights started to flash and now they stay on unless the car is idling. They seem to turn on as soon as I touch the gas pedal. Also, the battery light started to come on when the revs are below 2000 rpm or so. I had some light smoke come from the engine bay when I was sitting at the lights, so I think its probably a short. Anyone had similar or have suggestions as to where to look?
Not likely to be the abs module right?
Thanks.
As a long shot, I have a stage 3 clutch that besides the regular chatter, makes a moaning noise intermittently when I let off the clutch. I thought this was just the clutch but it might be the throw out bearing. Related? Might explain the smoke if the clutch is slipping?
 
yep thats the one. thanks for confirming that for me.
I'll have to get under the car tomorrow and look for burnt wires.
 
A quick update, when I went to the car this morning it was completely dead (36 hours after problem appeared). Even the interior light. Does this help narrow it down at all? The short must be somewhere that has permanent power for this to happen right? And its not going to be a fuse?

Actually, something I forgot to mention initially is that when the problem started, the radio started to squeak and pop. I am wondering if its something to do with power regulation in the charging system?
 
Another update. I jump started it this morning and it seems to be idling OK, none of the dash lights at idle anyway.
I have a relocated battery and I did have to jump it from the starter. I tried to jump it off the battery in the trunk and it just clicked. Moved the cables to the starter and voila. I let it run for a little while, turned it off and it starts again no problem. Maybe in getting to the starter I moved whatever was shorting?
There is a high pitched whining noise (think electric motor) that increases with RPMs which makes me think something with the alternator, but also at higher rpms (close to 3k) the battery light comes on. would this be a voltage regulator.

I am terrible with electrical stuff, any advice or suggestions appreciated.
 
Well I'm in the process of pulling the alt. Have all bar the single little wire undone, just cant find how to release it. Searching now but if anyone wants to help me out and tell me how that clip works it'd be much appreciated.
Also,this is what the area around the altenator looks like. I think it might be more than the regulator. And yes those are metal flakes.
c769e0a7.jpg
 
Battery connections

Battery connections

Just mentioning this cause you said not too familiar with electrical things: Remove and clean battery connections with wire brush or sandpaper, put a little grease on, very little, and replace tightly.

Un detectably corroded battery connections can do weird things.

Best of luck,

Mike
 
The metal shavings confuse me because that boot spins when you drive and it only looks piled up on top of the boot and the subframe. :shrug:.... is that pic before or after the new alternator was installed?
 
blu_fuz said:
The metal shavings confuse me because that boot spins when you drive and it only looks piled up on top of the boot and the subframe. :shrug:.... is that pic before or after the new alternator was installed?
Click to expand...
the car could have been sitting running:shrug: the axle wouldnt be spinning then but the alt would be still
 
Have a look at the mega fuse connections for the alternator. If you have corrosion built up on those connections you could run into some weird problems like you are describing. Also I read that you relocated your battery to the trunk... one whats the condition of your terminals in the engine bay and two what size wire did you run to the trunk? How long has it been since your relocated it that these problems started happening?
 
blu_fuz said:
The metal shavings confuse me because that boot spins when you drive and it only looks piled up on top of the boot and the subframe. :shrug:.... is that pic before or after the new alternator was installed?
Click to expand...

That is the 'old' alternator. I still haven't got it out because of that clip I asked about. I was thinking about the metal flakes and I think they may be from when we installed the alternator bracket on the 3l. We forgot to cut the tab and had to do it in place. Funny that they're still stuck to the CV boot as you say. Alternator spins freely.

CSVT#49 said:
Have a look at the mega fuse connections for the alternator. If you have corrosion built up on those connections you could run into some weird problems like you are describing. Also I read that you relocated your battery to the trunk... one whats the condition of your terminals in the engine bay and two what size wire did you run to the trunk? How long has it been since your relocated it that these problems started happening?
Click to expand...

Wire is at least 2 ga I think. It was relocated before I bought it. The only sketchy thing about it is that its wired directly to the starter in the engine bay, no terminals or distribution block to speak of. I've been driving the car like it is for 6 months without issue.

Would the megafuse issue cause high voltage, increasing with RPM?

Also, would the high voltage through the battery kill it? It doesn't seem to hold a charge at the moment.
 
Heywood said:
Wire is at least 2 ga I think. It was relocated before I bought it. The only sketchy thing about it is that its wired directly to the starter in the engine bay, no terminals or distribution block to speak of. I've been driving the car like it is for 6 months without issue.

Would the megafuse issue cause high voltage, increasing with RPM?

Also, would the high voltage through the battery kill it? It doesn't seem to hold a charge at the moment.
Click to expand...

:shocked:...

:eek:

Wired directly to the starter!? So where is the distribution box?? Is it installed under the dash maybe?

Second 2awg is a bit small... but for Cali it's probably fine since you don't see the cold temp's that we see here up in the frozen tundra.

I wouldn't consider the high voltage to be due to the megafuse, but you do know that the faster the alternator spins the more charge it creates. What do you consider high voltage and did you measure the voltage? Typically I would expect the voltage from the alternator to be anywhere from 13.5-14.5V.

Very interested to hear your response on the wiring... take some pictures of it in the engine bay please!
 
I just want to make sure. You are removing the alternator, right? I say this because I don't know what you mean by "clip". Basically there are 3 bolts. 2 mounting bolts and 1 on a support bracket. In your picture you can see one of the mounting bolts. It is the bolt coming out the wrong way. The other is toward the firewall and on top. It comes out the wrong way. I say this because the idiot engineers at Ford thought it would be "fun" to have you remove the bolt toward the engine. A place you can't get you hands in, unless your an 8 year old girl. Turning what would be a 15 minute, simple, Alt replacement into a 4 hour (or more) long nightmare. And, if that weren't bad enough. When you finally get those 2 bolts out and think "thank god I'm finally done"!!!! No No, just for an added amount of misery, Ford decided to put a mounting bracket on the back. It's a 90 degree support bracket. The easiest bolt to remove (at least for me) is the one that goes straight into the back of the alternator. All I can say is good luck and have "fun." I think the rest of us here are raising money so we can hire a Hit-man to have the engineer who designed this setup assassinated!!! :laugh:
 
Pugulis said:
I just want to make sure. You are removing the alternator, right? I say this because I don't know what you mean by "clip". Basically there are 3 bolts. 2 mounting bolts and 1 on a support bracket. In your picture you can see one of the mounting bolts. It is the bolt coming out the wrong way. The other is toward the firewall and on top. It comes out the wrong way. I say this because the idiot engineers at Ford thought it would be "fun" to have you remove the bolt toward the engine. A place you can't get you hands in, unless your an 8 year old girl. Turning what would be a 15 minute, simple, Alt replacement into a 4 hour (or more) long nightmare. And, if that weren't bad enough. When you finally get those 2 bolts out and think "thank god I'm finally done"!!!! No No, just for an added amount of misery, Ford decided to put a mounting bracket on the back. It's a 90 degree support bracket. The easiest bolt to remove (at least for me) is the one that goes straight into the back of the alternator. All I can say is good luck and have "fun." I think the rest of us here are raising money so we can hire a Hit-man to have the engineer who designed this setup assassinated!!! :laugh:
Click to expand...
the clip he is talking about is the one little black one on the back of the alt i guess its prob a ground but im not sure. I cant remember the design or id help you out op.
 
OK Guys, I got the alternator out, brand new bosch one in. My alt tested bad at 3 different places (Kragen, Autozone and Pepboys). Got the clip, had to pull the tab out, not push in, thanks GT2SVT. I think its a signal wire or something.

High voltage was like 17V. I measured it across the battery terminals and checked it while I had someone rev the engine. Went up from 14 at idle to 17 at ~3k rpm. This is why I thought it was just the voltage regulator.

Tonight I'll jump start it and see if its all fixed. Just had time to get it all put back together last night. If alls good I'll drive it up to the auto shop and test the battery and get a new one if need be.

I'll snap some pics of my install for you CSVT#49.
I also found a nice way to get at the top bolt, by undoing one of the wiring harness fasteners at the top and pushing it back toward the fire wall there was enough room for even my big hands to fit down in there with a small rachet.
 
Just took it up to Kragen and the battery tested fine. Might be a drain somewhere I guess.

The high pitched whine is still there too so I need to get to the bottom of that.

I'll go out and take a couple of pics later on.
 
gorman said:
the high pitched whine through the stereo could be because you have lost a ground connection... G.
Click to expand...

This isn't through the stereo, it sounds like an electric motor or a supercharger type whine. I couldn't hear it standing in front of the engine bay because the engine noise drowns it out, but inside the car I can hear it get louder and higher pitched from ~2500 rpm to red line. It kind of lags the rpms when I let off the gas. Like it gets spun up by the engine revs and then spins down when you let off.
 
Here are some pics.
Battery in trunk:
c76e155a.jpg


Engine bay terminal on the starter motor (hard to see):
dc595ffc.jpg

d750fc3b.jpg
 
So then my question is where is your distribution block? The car requires those fuses and relays to run properly. If it's not in the engine bay it's somewhere else. Follow your power wire and you should find it. I'm betting you have a bad ground somewhere that's causing current to flow somewhere other then where it was designed to go. Possibly putting a strain on your alternator/battery. Is your battery grounded in the trunk, in which case where is the ground in the engine bay? Or did they bring the ground all the way back up to the engine bay and if so where did they attach it?
 
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