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High NO levels for smog-FAILING

N

Nerawkas

CEG'er
Joined
Feb 26, 2008
Messages
213
Location
West coast
I own a 1999 Contour SE, ATX, 2.5L v6 DOHC Duretec... what else.. 173,000 miles, last tune up was probably over 2 years ago, not sure, previous owner didnt tell me, i didnt ask. was free car :).
I've been trying to get this thing smogged for 6 days now, failed over 5 test. each worst than the last. but now my biggest problem is NO(PPM) levels are way to high for both speeds. im considered a "gross polluter" rawr. Ive replaced the egr, and the pcv. cleaned the maf and put a new air filter. ive replaced a few hoses because of leaks. but im still getting high levels. yesterday i found that the vaccum hose coming from the egr isnt sucking when u press the throttle. the actual hose isnt clogged, because i disconnected it from the selenoid and i still get sucktion. now my question is, is the selenoid bad? ive replaced that too, and right away got the car smogged, no less the 2 mins after installing it. but i still failed, for the NO levels. so if it isnt the selenoid, and the vaccum isnt sucking, egr has no leaks, wut the hay man? any suggestions? i have two codes, p1151 and p1131, heated o2s reading too lean, bank one and two. ive replaced them both, and after that the car read so much better in the other test. would it take a whole day or more for the selenoid to work? its just electrical. i thought that it would suck right away. if anyone has any suggestions, it would help a lot. i was due on smog yesterday. oh, yea, car is still failing only from the NO levels, nitrous oxide. the o2 sensors only helped in the other fields, just wanted to clarify that.
 
On many cars you cannot get the EGR valve to open unless the car is moving. See if the valve can open by applying vacuum with the engine at idle. The idle quality should drop way off and possibly stall. If it will hold vacuum and the idle quality stays the same, you likely have plugged EGR passages. They usually plug right behind the throttle body. Remove the throttle body and clean the passages.

If it will not hold vacuum, the EGR valve is leaking and needs to be replaced.

If the above tests are OK, install a vacuum gauge (T into the line at the EGR valve) and road test. If vacuum is present while driving and the above tests were good, quite looking at the EGR. If there is no vacuum while driving, continue as you have started to figure out why.

If the EGR checks out, you likely have a dead cat.

Other things that can lead to high NOX include a very (and I mean very) lean mixture, over advanced ignition timing, or anything that will cause hotter than normal combustion. NOX is formed by combustion being so hot that normally inert Nitrogen is scorched.
 
Like he said, NO raises with high temp and pressure. It's either in the EGR system or the front section of the cat is dead. Common for muffler shop jackasses to rap on converter with a hammer and when you hear the rattling he tells you your cat is dead. What he DIDN'T tell you was that it was dead because he just shattered the catalyst with that hammer blow. I notice no mention made in this thread about the DPFE sensor yet, that bad would certainly produce that result.
 
DPFE sensor? i really dont know what that is? but maybe this might help you guys. these are the resuts of my last 4 smog tests.
First Test: 4-23-09 M1: pass M2: pass
M1: 15 mph | 1710rpm | 14.4 %CO2 | 0.1 %O2 | 15 HC (PPM) | 0.15 CO% | 410 NOX
M2: 25 mph | 1677rpm | 14.2 %CO2 | 0.0 %O2 | 16 HC (PPM) | 0.46 CO% | 54 NOX
Second Test: 4-28-09 M1: fail M2: pass
M1: 15 mph | 1684rpm | 13.8 %CO2 | 0.0 %O2 | 88 HC (PPM) | 1.22 CO% | 10 NOX
M2: 25 mph | 2098rpm | 14.4 %CO2 | 0.0 %O2 | 31 HC (PPM) | 0.20 CO% | 16 NOX
Third Test: 4-28-09 M1: fail M2:fail (2 hours later)
M1: 15 mph | 1746rpm | 13.7 %CO2 | 0.0 %O2 | 95 HC (PPM) | 1.47 CO% | 9 NOX
M2: 25 mph | 2109rpm | 13.8 %CO2 | 0.0 %O2 | 63 HC (PPM) | 1.51 CO% | 50 NOX
Forth Test: 4-30-09 M1: pass M2:gp (gross polluter)
M1: 15 mph | 1700rpm | 14.4 %CO2 | 0.1 %O2 | 9 HC (PPM) | 0.01 CO% | 254 NOX
M2: 25 mph | 1654rpm | 14.1 %CO2 | 0.5 %O2 | 9 HC (PPM) | 0.00 CO% | 2186 NOX

first test failed because of obdII not completing monitors and cycles. 2nd and third, results happened because of lucas fuel injector cleaner and preimum gasoline. after that forth came on becuase i replaced egr, and pcv with air filter. so any suggestions anyone?
 
dude this is why I'm glad I live in michigan....

if you have no vacuum leaks

and your spark plug wires are on right.

and you replaced all sensors that were causing codes.

maybe your cats.

good luck
 
Nerawkas said:
DPFE sensor? i really dont know what that is? but maybe this might help you guys. these are the resuts of my last 4 smog tests.
First Test: 4-23-09 M1: pass M2: pass
M1: 15 mph | 1710rpm | 14.4 %CO2 | 0.1 %O2 | 15 HC (PPM) | 0.15 CO% | 410 NOX
M2: 25 mph | 1677rpm | 14.2 %CO2 | 0.0 %O2 | 16 HC (PPM) | 0.46 CO% | 54 NOX
Second Test: 4-28-09 M1: fail M2: pass
M1: 15 mph | 1684rpm | 13.8 %CO2 | 0.0 %O2 | 88 HC (PPM) | 1.22 CO% | 10 NOX
M2: 25 mph | 2098rpm | 14.4 %CO2 | 0.0 %O2 | 31 HC (PPM) | 0.20 CO% | 16 NOX
Third Test: 4-28-09 M1: fail M2:fail (2 hours later)
M1: 15 mph | 1746rpm | 13.7 %CO2 | 0.0 %O2 | 95 HC (PPM) | 1.47 CO% | 9 NOX
M2: 25 mph | 2109rpm | 13.8 %CO2 | 0.0 %O2 | 63 HC (PPM) | 1.51 CO% | 50 NOX
Forth Test: 4-30-09 M1: pass M2:gp (gross polluter)
M1: 15 mph | 1700rpm | 14.4 %CO2 | 0.1 %O2 | 9 HC (PPM) | 0.01 CO% | 254 NOX
M2: 25 mph | 1654rpm | 14.1 %CO2 | 0.5 %O2 | 9 HC (PPM) | 0.00 CO% | 2186 NOX

first test failed because of obdII not completing monitors and cycles. 2nd and third, results happened because of lucas fuel injector cleaner and preimum gasoline. after that forth came on becuase i replaced egr, and pcv with air filter. so any suggestions anyone?
Click to expand...

I'm guessing that either you accidentally messed something up when you replace the EGR valve or the cat was not up to operating temperature. It looks like the cat is capable or tests two and three would have been much higher. Did you knock the lines off the DPFE when you replaced the EGR valve or the PCV valve?
 
thanks for all of your replies guys. but i have replaced the cat with a catco OBDII matching cat. i had the o2 sensor replaced the exact same time. egr was done by a professional, but i did the pcv myself. i did knock a pipe kinda lose, the oil sperator? but not so lose that it could come out, just loose enough to be fondled :) . now whats this DPFE? and where is it? i also have a major and i mean MAJOR oil leak that has gunk so junked up in there, could there be any chance that these sludge deposites could be getting sucked in somewhere that it could be burning into the exahust? could getting the car steamed clean fix this problem? thanks for all your insights guys!

edit::
actually i just read up on the DPFE sensor... and it seems to bea sensor that regualtes the EGR? now i have a new question, is the EGR vacuum selenoid the same as the DPFE sensor?
 
the DPFE sensor is either aluminum or plastic and two hoses going from the egr tube into the sensor it is near the EGR sensor the hoses are on the bottom and hard to see if one of those hoses is unhooked your car will run like crap and there will likely be a small exhaust leak that you can hear if you have the car idling and operate the throttle from the engine compartment.
 
okay, i guess that they are right on the egr selenoid. are you referring to the piece that connects the two hoses into the selenoid? i know one of the hoses connects to the egr vacuum, but what is that other line coming out from the selenoid?
 
DPFE sensor is the part with the 2 hoses that run to exhaust pipe. DPFE tells computer where EGR valve is as far as position, then computer tells vacuum solenoid how much to open to adjust. Solenoid has 2 more hoses, one to engine vacuum for supply and other goes to the EGR valve itself to regulate it. Meaning, if DPFE screwed up, doesn't matter about rest of EGR; it will not work right.
 
Again, make sure that cat is hot during test, readings will be lower like the man alluded to.
 
Omg Yes!!

Omg Yes!!

amc49 said:
DPFE sensor is the part with the 2 hoses that run to exhaust pipe. DPFE tells computer where EGR valve is as far as position, then computer tells vacuum solenoid how much to open to adjust. Solenoid has 2 more hoses, one to engine vacuum for supply and other goes to the EGR valve itself to regulate it. Meaning, if DPFE screwed up, doesn't matter about rest of EGR; it will not work right.
Click to expand...

NO EFFEN WAY!! thats the problem i am having right now! and since ive been reading on it, the more and more it seems like thats the problem, along with the LIM. btw, i went to autozone the other day and asked for that sensor, DPFE, but nothing came up:shrug:
is there another name for it? oh, and i tried looking for this sensor, but im totally lost, more info on location please with pics if possible?
i feel like this may be the answer to my prayers:eek:
 
okay, so i have a bit of a problem. before i get started in installing that dpfe sensor, i want to just clarify something. the one on my car looks something like this (not from my car just got it online)
s_ford_dpfe_sensor_1.jpg

its also metallic looking like this, but the one i got from napa looks like this
DPFE_Plastic.jpg

now, if i were going to replaace this part, does it matter which hose goes in where? and if it does, does the one on top go in the right or left pipe? one on top referring to the original sensor which seems to have one pipe on top while the other is on the bottom? other wise, i would swear that my sensor on the car only has one in/out hole, then it would only be a pfe sensor. no need for difference

http://www.aa1car.com/library/s_ford_dpfe_sensor_1.jpg
 
they are labeled also your sensor has two hoses

also notice how the sensor tubes are different sizes

with these two things you should be able to figure it out.

good luck either sensor will work
 
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