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Custom Kick Panels etc...

MxRacer said:
yes, i mean a second set of tweeters.

time alignment will help, but only for the driver. the passenger side will sound completely off.
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And would I be able to wire up the tweeters along w/ the existing ones after the x-over?

Oh and as far as "completely off" I couldn't imagine it would sound any worse than it already does because of the distances, but I'm probably totally wrong.
 
ConcepTrs913 said:
And would I be able to wire up the tweeters along w/ the existing ones after the x-over?

Oh and as far as "completely off" I couldn't imagine it would sound any worse than it already does because of the distances, but I'm probably totally wrong.
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you'd have to play with the x-over point and output levels on them to get it to sound right... it wouldn't be a plug and play type of thing.

and yes, it will be completely off for the passenger. the time alignment will have the drivers side speakers firing later than they normally would to try and match arrival time with the passenger side speaker (when you're in the drivers seat). for the passenger, this means that the speakers that are furthest away are being delayed even more. it would have tremendous right-side bias for the passenger.
 
Alright, yeah I know with anything it's not necessarily plug and play.

So then it would be totally out of the question to mount ONE set of tweeters higher up, midrange in the kick, and about 80hz and lower 8" in the door? I have read a lot about how the tweet should be as close as possible to the mid, however with the time alignment could I do that?

Well I just thought about that and I don't know because I can't time align the tweeter separate from the mid...

Hmm I am kind of questioning what I should do here. I don't doubt I can make the fiberglass enclosure nor fit the 8" into the door. I am just not sure because I have never had experience with aiming and tuning so much. I mean I guess its what sounds the best but basically I'm debating over making the kick panels or not and if I do should I put the woofers in the door? And then should I power the rear speakers by the deck but make them low pass so I don't mess w/ the imaging.

What is your opinion on this?
 
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hmouta said:
bob, your still using xtant amps? are your midbass's bandpassed thru the amp on channels 3/4? if not and just using a lpf for the midbass how are u separating the midbass lower frequency and where your subs take over?
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Yes, I am still running a single Xtant X604 amp (75w x 4) for my entire SQ setup. Also I do not have mid-basses, just a simple 3-way setup of tweeter, midrange, subwoofer.

Here is the breakdown of which channel is doing what:

Channel 1: left front, 80Hz and up (using x-over in amp @24db/oct). Connected to a 5.25" mid in the kick that rolls off naturally on the high side plus also to a tweeter (in the center of the 5.25" mid) with a dedicated HPF 18db/oct @ 3.5k.

Channel 2: right front, 80Hz and up (using x-over in amp @24db/oct). Connected to a 5.25" mid in the kick that rolls off naturally on the high side plus also to a tweeter (in the center of the 5.25" mid) with a dedicated HPF 18db/oct @ 3.5k.

Channel 3: left sub, 80Hz and down (using x-over in amp @24db/oct). Connected to an 8" sub mounted in the front door in place of the factory location (with modification) and using the factory grille in the door.

Channel 4: right sub, 80Hz and down (using x-over in amp @24db/oct). Connected to an 8" sub mounted in the front door in place of the factory location (with modification) and using the factory grille in the door.

The 12" subs that can be seen behind the backseat or from the trunk were NEVER on unless I was doing an spl run for about 5 seconds at a competition. And if the 12's were on, the rest of the system was off. In fact, the 12's are not in the car now at all and have not been used since sometime in late 2005.
 
With regard to the use of tweeters mounted higher up to raise the stage, the best results i have heard about were achieved by installing this second set of tweeters on the a-pillar, at about eye-level, pointed straight across the car if not a couple degrees forward (toward the windshield), crossed over very sharply at about 10kHz and attenuated (muted) just a little bit. Again, these would be strictly an auxiliary set whose sole purpose is to improve the sound stage. These would not be your primary drivers for reproducing sound above 3.0-3.5kHz which would be the responsibility of the main tweeters probably installed in the kick panel near the midrange.
 
ConcepTrs913 said:
So SoundQ, would you not recommend putting the woofers in the doors AND having 12" subs for sound quality purposes?
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I have been in and tuned cars that did use the 8's in the doors as midbasses and had 12" or larger subs in the trunk. It can be done and done well, to be sure. It was just not my preference given the competition rule set we were designing and building the car to at the time (2001 IASCA Pro Street class). And, to be honest, I really do prefer having all sound, including sub bass, coming from in front of the listener. Once you hear it for a while, it becomes really easy to pick out any sounds coming from behind you, almost regardless of what it is. The exception of course would be frequencies below about 40-50 Hz in an extremely well-damped vehicle that has zero buzzes or vibrations that give a clue as to the source of the sound.
 
SoundQ, what is your opinion on decks that have time alignment? Do you think (without running the 8's in the doors) that just putting 6.5 mids in the stock location and tweeter in the A pillars or sail panel can be done very nicely if you set the time alignment for the mids and such and then mess with the facing of the tweeters, phase of them, and location? Basically w/ time alignment do you believe you can achieve sound close to what you could w/ mounting them in the kicks?
 
If the electronics are good enough, it is possible to make any single seat sound anywhere from really good to totally awesome. However, the amount of corrections you have to make with electronics to overcome poor installation execution, the worse the sound will be for anyone not seated in the sweet spot.

If you have the time/money/desire/whatever, I'd say put forth the effort to get the equipment installed in the best possible location and then use electronic processing in moderation to fine tune your install and not as a means to compensate for it.

In my car, since it was designed to be judged from both front seats at the same time, I do not have any time alignment electronics at all. Again, to use time alignment to help the sound for one seat, physics says it has to hurt any and all other seats. The more it is used to help one, the more it will hurt the others.
 
Rats.

I need to find a decent way of doing this. I have an orion cobalt 200.4 bridged driving the front two mb quarts. I was thinking about unbridging it and having 2 channels go into each of the front doors... one channel for some 8's and one channel for some 5.25" components. Good idea / horrible idea?
 
The Digital Slacker said:
Rats.

I need to find a decent way of doing this. I have an orion cobalt 200.4 bridged driving the front two mb quarts. I was thinking about unbridging it and having 2 channels go into each of the front doors... one channel for some 8's and one channel for some 5.25" components. Good idea / horrible idea?
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I do not think there is enough room to mount all those speakers in the front doors, unless you do something very custom. Putting any drivers aft of the factory opening kinda defeats the purpose of trying to get them in front of you in the first place. If you're wanting to put 8's in the doors (and i do recommend it if you can) then the mids/tweets need to go in the kicks for the best performance at the lowest cost.

From the model # on your amp I am guessing it is rated at 50 x 4 rms? 50 watts is fine for the components, but it may not be quite enough (too close to call, really) to get really musical with free-air 8's, depending on what you have or get. Maybe a better suggestion would be to use 2 channels for your front components and then leave the other 2 bridged to a single small mono sub, perhaps in the rear deck opening? That way the sound doesn't have to fight through the back seat to get into the car and you still don't lose much trunk space.
 
caraudio.jpg



thats how it is right now. I just wanted to get a bit more out of the front. You don't think i can get away without doing kick panels? I was hoping to cram an 8 towards the back and maybe get a 5.25 in there too. maybe i should go open the door up and do some measuring.
 
SoundQ SVT said:
Yes, I am still running a single Xtant X604 amp (75w x 4) for my entire SQ setup. Also I do not have mid-basses, just a simple 3-way setup of tweeter, midrange, subwoofer.

Here is the breakdown of which channel is doing what:

Channel 1: left front, 80Hz and up (using x-over in amp @24db/oct). Connected to a 5.25" mid in the kick that rolls off naturally on the high side plus also to a tweeter (in the center of the 5.25" mid) with a dedicated HPF 18db/oct @ 3.5k.

Channel 2: right front, 80Hz and up (using x-over in amp @24db/oct). Connected to a 5.25" mid in the kick that rolls off naturally on the high side plus also to a tweeter (in the center of the 5.25" mid) with a dedicated HPF 18db/oct @ 3.5k.

Channel 3: left sub, 80Hz and down (using x-over in amp @24db/oct). Connected to an 8" sub mounted in the front door in place of the factory location (with modification) and using the factory grille in the door.

Channel 4: right sub, 80Hz and down (using x-over in amp @24db/oct). Connected to an 8" sub mounted in the front door in place of the factory location (with modification) and using the factory grille in the door.

The 12" subs that can be seen behind the backseat or from the trunk were NEVER on unless I was doing an spl run for about 5 seconds at a competition. And if the 12's were on, the rest of the system was off. In fact, the 12's are not in the car now at all and have not been used since sometime in late 2005.
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gotcha. did u have mtx 8" in the doors before? i couldve sworn u had mtx and not the jlaudios
 
Will I have problems if I mount my components in kickpanels?

I was set on doing this after hearing everyone raving about kicks on a bunch of forums.. then started hearing about how people didn't like them since your legs block the tweeters most of the time.

I can lower my seat all the way but will things still sound awkward?
 
hmouta said:
gotcha. did u have mtx 8" in the doors before? i couldve sworn u had mtx and not the jlaudios
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I did have some custom-built MTX 8" drivers in the doors for a little while. Xtant and MTX, as my sponsors, didn't really like the thought of me having the JL's in the doors like I did for 2001 and 2002. They built a one-off pair of subs to replace the JLs which I had in the car for just a few months in 2003. (it was actually their 3rd set, but the first ones that came close enough to JL's performance to get me to swap). It just happens that was when the Car Audio & Electronics magazine photoshoot and article happened. I actually had the MTX's out and the JL's back in before the magazine came out, but it was too late to get the article changed to match.
 
Berkel said:
Will I have problems if I mount my components in kickpanels?

I was set on doing this after hearing everyone raving about kicks on a bunch of forums.. then started hearing about how people didn't like them since your legs block the tweeters most of the time.

I can lower my seat all the way but will things still sound awkward?
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You'll be more than fine for everyday listening.
 
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