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Turbo Questions

R

rac74

CEG'er
Joined
Jan 8, 2005
Messages
75
Location
Westminster, Maryland
I just got some parts in and had some questions.

I got a T3/T04E 60 Trim .82 A/R, I didn't know how to read compressor maps when I bought it and I figured since my setup is going to be almost exactly like warmongers and similar power levels I'd run the same spec turbo. I did some maps of my own and it seems you can't get the car up to 7200 like I want, my point was off the map.

I did a map for a 60-1 and it turned out perfect for the 15psi I eventually want to get to. I didn't have time last night to do a couple for 5 & 10 psi though. The 60 Trim plots I did showed they went off the map but warmonger's car shows him still making/holding power.

I'm confident my math was correct but if it's wrong than that's good news since I can keep the 60 Trim. I guess what I'd like to know is if this is still a good selection, what can I rev to and what kind of power I can expect at 5.6 (wastegate), 10, and 15 psi.

As far as exhaust routing I was going to run a 2" ID pipe off the rear bank, around the oil pan, then merge into a 2.5" pipe into the turbo. What size turboback do I need? My limits would be 15psi and hopefully making 430whp, I was under the assumption I needed to go 3" but it looks like I can get away with 2.5" seeing warmonger still has a 2.5" turboback. It'll save me a lot of trouble trying to fit it in there also. I have a 38mm Tial WG and will be plumbing it into the downpipe.

The IC will be a Spearco 2-171 core w/ custom endtanks. I need to know where to mount the IC pump at? The heat exchanger I am going to make out of my old SVT rad., how big do I need? It is ~25" wide, I just need to know how tall. I'll be getting a Tial 50mm BOV. I have an 80mm MAF and need to get 42# injectors which should support 430whp, correct?

Boost control will be via a Turbosmart e-boost 2. I need a wideband and was looking at the XD-16 from Innovative motorsports because I like the gauge pod idea. I need to know if I can hook this up to the XCal2 to datalog it. Otherwise I have to get the LM-1 which I didn't want because there isn't much space to mount it.

Any help is appreciated, Thanks.
 
That turbo is big enough to rev to 7200 rpm probably up to 14psi I'd say.
Of course the pressure ratio, volumetric efficiency of the engine (re: airflow) at those rpm will tell the tale.
Your volumetric efficiency above 6500rpm will NOT be 100% or more like it would be at 5000rpm, it gets less and therefore the engine can't swallow as much air. Consequently you probably won't be moving off the turbo map.
That is a great turbo capable of making quite a bit of power with good spool and driveability. It should pull a good 450 wHP depending on the engine setup.
 
You can mount the intercooler pump in the trunk or engine bay, your choice. Mine is currently in the trunk but I plan to move it. It is actually kinda loud so I want it out under the hood now. Innovate has great stuff, but you can have an AEM gauge type wideband that will hook up to a xcal2 for about 120 less. But, yeah the innovate does sync with xcal, lots of info on sct's website and innovate's as well.
 
SHOgoFast said:
You can mount the intercooler pump in the trunk or engine bay, your choice. Mine is currently in the trunk but I plan to move it. It is actually kinda loud so I want it out under the hood now. Innovate has great stuff, but you can have an AEM gauge type wideband that will hook up to a xcal2 for about 120 less. But, yeah the innovate does sync with xcal, lots of info on sct's website and innovate's as well.
Click to expand...

Innovate also sells a cool gauge that hooks up to their LC-1

I just wish they'd had it when I first put in an O2 gauge.

I recommend the pump in the front under the hood or fender somewhere, end of story.
There is NOTHING from the Intercooler system that needs to be in the trunk.
- No need to string water lines all the way to the back, nor a big resevoir.
- No need for the extra 20lbs of sloshing water, lower fluid speeds that go along with all that either.
-No need for the slower transient responses to temperature that the larger, rear type resevoirs posess.
-Uhhh....I could go on if you wish?
 
warmonger said:
That turbo is big enough to rev to 7200 rpm probably up to 14psi I'd say.
Of course the pressure ratio, volumetric efficiency of the engine (re: airflow) at those rpm will tell the tale.
Your volumetric efficiency above 6500rpm will NOT be 100% or more like it would be at 5000rpm, it gets less and therefore the engine can't swallow as much air. Consequently you probably won't be moving off the turbo map.
That is a great turbo capable of making quite a bit of power with good spool and driveability. It should pull a good 450 wHP depending on the engine setup.
Click to expand...

Thanks. That clears that up.

On the exhaust side, I want to plumb the WG back into the DP because I want to keep it quiet. In the other thread you were talking about the twin 2" pipes into a 3". From what I understood, a 2.5" DP would be a restriction if I wanted to plumb the WG into the DP, am I correct to assume this? I'm still up in the air as to what size catback I should run. I think 3" is a bit overkill myself. Like Rara was saying in the other thread have the DP slowly reduce to keep velocity up and get it out. I had a similar idea that employs the twin 2" pipe idea of yours.

I was thinking that I would come out of the turbo w/ a 2.5" 90 bend and have it split into (2) 2" pipes that would go under the trans. and into a 3" main cat, so essentially your idea to the cat. Then I'd get a reducer (3"-2.5", ~8-10" long) and weld that behind the cat. That would then feed into the main exhaust system.

On to the I/C system. The pump I was going to mount on the drivers side by the fuse box and a tank on the passenger side between the 2 other resevoirs. How big of a tank do I need? Also, how should I route the system? I wanted to go; pump then heat exchnager to avoid having the water heated up by the impeller, then I/C and back to resevoir.
 
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rac74 said:
On the exhaust side, I want to plumb the WG back into the DP because I want to keep it quiet. In the other thread you were talking about the twin 2" pipes into a 3". From what I understood, a 2.5" DP would be a restriction if I wanted to plumb the WG into the DP, am I correct to assume this? I'm still up in the air as to what size catback I should run. I think 3" is a bit overkill myself. Like Rara was saying in the other thread have the DP slowly reduce to keep velocity up and get it out. I had a similar idea that employs the twin 2" pipe idea of yours.

I was thinking that I would come out of the turbo w/ a 2.5" 90 bend and have it split into (2) 2" pipes that would go under the trans. and into a 3" main cat, so essentially your idea to the cat. Then I'd get a reducer (3"-2.5", ~8-10" long) and weld that behind the cat. That would then feed into the main exhaust system.
Click to expand...

I will not begin to proclaim to know how pipe differences effect the power output of a turbo contour, but in the mustang community the more restrictions you put on your hot side, the less efficient it gets; wide open downpipe and atmospheric wastegate venting = most power (ususally). Whether or not stepping down to the 2.5" catback will have much effect will really depend on how restrictive the cat is. Take the cat out, and the increased restriction from the smaller pipe may cost a couple HP, the theory of increased velocity sounds good, but in practice (on mustangs) increasing pipe diameters increases power. Even the type of muffler can have significant effects on power, multiple mustangs have picked up between 15 and 30 whp from simply switching from a chambered muffler (flowmaster) to a "glass-pack" style (dynomax). Will these factors effect a turbo contour the same as a turbo mustang, probably, but maybe not, the only way to know for sure is for people to test it.
 
Pope said:
I will not begin to proclaim to know how pipe differences effect the power output of a turbo contour, but in the mustang community the more restrictions you put on your hot side, the less efficient it gets; wide open downpipe and atmospheric wastegate venting = most power (ususally). Whether or not stepping down to the 2.5" catback will have much effect will really depend on how restrictive the cat is. Take the cat out, and the increased restriction from the smaller pipe may cost a couple HP, the theory of increased velocity sounds good, but in practice (on mustangs) increasing pipe diameters increases power. Even the type of muffler can have significant effects on power, multiple mustangs have picked up between 15 and 30 whp from simply switching from a chambered muffler (flowmaster) to a "glass-pack" style (dynomax). Will these factors effect a turbo contour the same as a turbo mustang, probably, but maybe not, the only way to know for sure is for people to test it.
Click to expand...

We already know a 2.5" downpipe can support big power in warmngers case. The thing is he vented his WG to atmosphere, that takes out a significant amount of exhaust from the downpipe. In my case, I want to recirculate the WG into the DP. Warmonger said it would be a restriction at the power levels I eventually want to push. So by having the DP split into (2) 2" pipes, which increases the flow area, I can recirculate the WG. Thats if he allows me to use his design.

Just venting it to atmosphere would be easy but I'm not up to the fines of venting un catalized exhaust to atmosphere, I'm already illegal as is (headers). Besides, it'll look cool anyway.

muntus: The LC-1 is just the cable & O2 sensor, I still need a gauge which is what the AEM and the IM XD-16 have. The AEM is cheaper plus it would be brand new.
 
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my point was not really about whether you use a 2.5" or 3" downpipe, but rather your concerns about after cat piping. my position is that running a 3" exhaust after cat w/ a free flowing muffler would potentially support more power than a 2.5" w/ free flowing muffler, but since you are running a cat any difference in pipe restriction may be a moot point since the cat will act as enough of a flow restriction on it's own that the flow potential after the cat may not make any significant impact of performance potential.
 
Ok, I see what you are saying. The larger exhaust will obviously support more power. Larger = more potential. What I want to know is if a 2.5" catback will support 430whp with the WG recirculated (my goal).
 
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