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Need Help with tune. Ping?

R

RAD Merc SVT

CEG'er
Joined
Aug 2, 2010
Messages
489
Location
Phoenix, Arizona
Hey guys I'm having an issue with my car that I haven't had before. 99 Mercury Mystique 3L with NPG tune and doesn't have a knock sensor. So its getting hotter here in AZ and I just noticed today that when I was driving mid afternoon I went WOT and it didn't have as much power as it usually does and as I drove between two cars I heard what sounded like driving over rocks and the sound of them flying up and hitting your undercarriage constantly. Could this be Ping? I've heard ping before but never this bad (if that's what it is) It would have to be pinging every time it fires and loud! So I suppose my question is does this sound like ping? and if it is I can use my Xcal to retard the spark right? or with my minimal knowledge of tuning, I can add more fuel to get away with having more advanced timing can't I? On another note can I use one of the "wire in" AFR gauges on my narrowband O2s to adjust WOT Air fuel? I know they just bounce around at any other throttle position but I heard they actually work at WOT.

Thank you for the help
-RAD
 
Pinging under load is possible, but probably not what is happening. Unless the ignition timing is going to 50 degrees BTDC you may be hearing a rod knock or some other mechanical sound. Does it make any noise when the clutch is depressed and revved up ?
 
Havent tried revving it up in neutral yet. but the sound is really bad def not rod knock or lifters. Like i said its the sound of a bunch of rocks flying up and hitting under your car... but coming from my engine. The last time I ran a datalog I think the max it was advancing was like 36*
 
Yup detonation is what it sounds like to me. so to fix this I need to set my AFR at WOT so will a ratio gauge work at WOT on my narrowbands? and from there I can retard my timing until it goes away
 
You need a wideband to properly tune your car, especially if your a fledgling tuner like I am. Adjusting ignition timing (from my expierence) also can also affect your AFR, so I would really look into an Innovative LC1, they are cheap and pretty reliable. Also, why not reinstall the knock sensor, it counts pings and automatically pulls timing.
 
My car didn't come with a knock sensor. I do have an SVT PCM installed right now so I'm thinking I could wire a knock sensor into the correct pin on the PCM if I get a wiring diagram for it. I don't reall want to purchase a wideband until I get my custom Y-Pipe built because I'm going to bung it into that. I just want to get my car running right. But I guess Wideband is the only way to go to solve this.
 
Pin 57 White/Black is the wire you are looking for. I would reinstall the knock sensor right away. You can get away on some engines without them but I would not on this, and knock sensor do save engines from trauma. I was previously absolutely FLAMED on this forum for mentioning removing the knock sensor on the Zetec, which is widely known to be responsive to it with no issues.

My guess is the plug is still floating around, but if it isn't find the White/Black wire and wire it up, then wire the ground to the common ground of the ECT sensor/IAT/TPS.

Someone also makes a weldless bung that you just drill a hole, and clamp it on. But thats pretty ghetto imho, would not do it for long. The LC1 can also simulate the narrowband signal (has an output for this stock) so you can remove a upstream o2 and still have a good signal going to your ecu, gets a little tricky though.

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RAD Merc SVT said:
Havent tried revving it up in neutral yet. but the sound is really bad def not rod knock or lifters. Like i said its the sound of a bunch of rocks flying up and hitting under your car... but coming from my engine. The last time I ran a datalog I think the max it was advancing was like 36*
Click to expand...



I have never heard one of these engines "ping" before from detonation. If they were going to ping then our turbos would be the first to have this problem. Cylinder heads are too good for preignition / detonation. Now the tune could be so whacked that it causes this to happen....

If it doesn't make any noise when revved in neutral post up a video of the sound when it happens.
 
Thank you so much for the wiring diagram I belive I am going to install one asap just to be safe. But again my car came out of the factory without one. Some of them did. Crewchief, I don't know what else it could be but Ill try to get it to do it in neutral. Another thing I'm thinking is that I feel no difference between like 3/4 throttle and WOT (not that my butt dyno is very accurate) So maybe I could be falling extremely lean at WOT raising combustion temps and detonation.

Thanks for the help guys
 
You just never know with these tunes sometimes. If it is lean it will surge at WOT. If you put the throttle to 3/4 and it runs better, then that is one of the signs of insufficient fuel volume. It won't ping if it is lean, at least not in my experience.

Here is another test you can run. 35 mph in 5th gear and then lugg the engine by applying 3/4 throttle. If it is going to ping then max load will do it. Don't go over 3/4 throttle until you verify the tune is not wacked. If it is lean it won't pull very well at all. If it makes a pinging sound it will be very faint at first and get much worse as max load is reached. Unless the timing goes nuts I just can't see our engines pinging.

As I said before, post up a video of the noise.
 
The air and coolant temps are also likely getting higher, that will result in the ECU pulling timing too. I recall my bone stock motors feeling sluggish in high heat.
 
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