Contour Enthusiasts Group Archives Forums Modifications Duratec Performance Maybe this will help....

Reading about the Paxto etc reminds me of the cars(s) we built for the Detroit auto show in the early 90's,the Ford Profile.This was an EAO Mondeo with many mods,including a shaft driven compressor from the FEAD,intercooler,the then 'new' Mustang air filter/MAF,EAO Escort 4X4 trans(with epoxy filler where it was ground a bit thin!),extensive floorpan mods,rear end from ,I think,an EAO Cosworth 4X4.It was a beast,not just a show/concept car(s).The SVE,as it was then,was a fellow Brit,Bob Brown,think hes back in UK now(I stayed!)The cars were built at Roush in Livonia,Mi.After the auto show we did some demo runs during the Waterford Hills 'classic' races that year,Bob had the 'lemo metallic' & I had the 'burgundy 'wath the oil temp!' one,yes we had some fun,but a word of caution,the 2.5 has a weak crank,the first proto engines we used in vehicles came from Porche but after the design was Fordized the cranks we a little on the weak side,sure this has since been corrected in design,also high engin oil temps,increase the capacity of the pan if you supercharge,'cut & shut' to add more+stat controlled oil cooler.Cold tell you more but dont want to bore you.Regards TAH

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I'm not gonna speak for everyone here, but I wouldn't mind at all if you continued to "bore" us with juicy tidbits such as this

By all means, bore the hell out of me! Sounds like you've received some "real-life" experience in regards to Duratec reliability, especially with some, shall I say, "severe" modifications?

Any other expierence, especially concerning the oil pan or the climate-related behavior of the transaxle, would be of definite value here.



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James Tompkins
Tulsa, OK
loken@ionet.net

99 Red Rocket SVT
Modded to taste...

00 Corvette Coupe (loan)
Modded for Haste...

Thanks for the welcome,how do I attach a jpeg(s) to postings,have a manifold setup you may like...racing of course but it gets rid of those damm light-off cats!TAH

Cant help you with the post, but dfinately would like to see that.

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Simon Langley
Black 98 SVT
#2119 of 6535
Moster Flow Filter
SMA 3" Exhaust
SHO Shop Pulleys
Jacobs Ignition
B&M Edge Shifter
Nitrous Works 50 shot
Mille Miglia Spyders
Dunlop Sport w-10's
Magnecore Wires
a few other little things

OK,a fw 'titbits',its late so forgive any hiccups!(once your past 40 the warrenty runs out!)*Engine Roll-before you fit upgraded roll restrictor inserts(plays hell with NVH if they a too hard,check the 'torque arm' bushes that go to the shifter box,these go to hell very quickly,this is a major help to reduce engine roll without getting NVH problems*Have fitted a 'pump'(belt driven),to recirculate trans fluid(sorry MTX75 only)via a cooler!,very tight & needs heat shielding but it worked ,a la NASCAR,this was on a 'workhorse' vehicle some years ago*Heat soak/underhood temps.try to position K&N/'cone' type air filter mods closer to the cool air source,better still move that bloody battery to the trunk,increase wire gage,fit in isolator switch and give yourself some room!*
I'll rack my head a bit more...later.You can contact me on secondline@ameritech.net OR consultantsareus@www.com OR my site www.consultants-are-us.bigstep.com I dont charge!...just love the cars.Regards TAH

Whoah, this is great stuff, but for those of us who haven't attained the proper vocabulary to understand this, we need some definitions.

FEAD? 'cut & shut'? Engine roll = Wheel hop? NVH? I'm really interested in that last post as I just ordered the motor mount inserts.

Thanks for the great first hand info though!



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Eric Walton
2000 Silver Frost SVT
1571 of 2150
Richbrook shift knob
Pioneer 6x8 2 & 3-ways

FEAD= 'front end acc drive',alt drive ,compressor etc.NVH=noise,vibration & harshness,re ride,engine transmitted noise to frame/body etc. 'cut & shut',sory about this one,means modify/fabricate etc.I'm an 'older' Brit engineer so terms from the 70' stick with me!

Whoa, that's some juicy info.

Regarding the JPEG posting. If you have images on a web site already, then just use this format to post them (replacing the {'s with regular brackets):

{img}http://insert.image.location/here{/img}

If you need somewhere to put the images, there's several free webhosts out there, and I periodically will put images on my webspace for people as well.

FYI
I'm currently working on a twin turbo.intercooled engine set up for the 2.5 V6,for racing...maybe rod that takes it to 350bhp.Have to understand that this has extensive engine mods (bottom end!)and body mods to get it in,will keep you posted,expect to be early 2001.Also,for the Zetec,a turbo/intercooled setup to 170+hp,not as many basic mods to the engine but not what I would call a 'bolt on kit'.More info soon.TAH

Terry, your the man! Go for it! I GOT to talk to you about this oil starvation thing on the SVTs/Duratecs. Can I call or email?

Dan

E mail away,either secondline@ameritech.net OR consultantsareus@www.com,make it as comprehensive as you like ,will se what I can do,regards TAH

Terry, you can e-mail ANY and ALL pictures to me and I will put them on my server!! chris_hightower@dell.com


Especially the one of the intake manifold!


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Chris Hightower
http://crush7.dyndns.org/

We have to get some pics up here! I'm salavating at the thought of a twin turbo 2.5!!! I don't care that I'd have to have as much money as God to get it, I JUST WANT TO SEE IT!

If it's still in the planning stages, someone ought to get a website up that charts the progress of this beast (ala the "project" pages on tuners websites, preferably with hot ladies draped all over it like that focus project at SCA!).

BTW, thanks for the clarification on the terms.



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Eric Walton
2000 Silver Frost SVT
1571 of 2150
Richbrook shift knob
Pioneer 6x8 2 & 3-ways

Chris & Eric,
chris have mailed the exhaust manifold set up to you,quality not to good(brown,old drawing of mine!)plus some other info,I was the EAO Ford engineer at Roush who covered the build of 400 proto cdw's(I'm a powertrain engineer).The twin tubo is close,will update my website(very behind on that one!) www.consultants-are-us.bigstep.com when I get some time,there is a 170+hp zetec on the board aswell.Regards TAH

350HP from a bi-turbo set-up...

who interested in an S4 now with only 250 odd HP...hehe


I know I know...need to strengthen other parts too...

Thanks for all the info Terry

alessandro

Terry, what did you need to to the bottom for 350 HP (just curious). Forged pistons for sure, prob rods, how about crank? girdel? main bearings? block reinforcements? Other?

Dan

A new billet crank is being made(in UK),new rods,added 'hardware' for girdle support.Many more hours of component testing to go,material looks good...for now!My intention will be to market these engines on an excange/fitted basis.The body mods may take a bit of your legroom but not much.Have to rembember that brakes,suspension etc all for part of such a conversion,I putting a lot of time(and $/'pounds')into this ,did I also mention that several 'hybrid'/kitcars take the V6/Zetec in UK,but as a 'mid-engine' set up,looking into the also and will be in UK next month.TAH

Terry,

You mentioned in another topic that the 3L conversion would be a bear. Was that from the perspective of dropping it into a Zetec powered Contique or just a PITA in general.

I was asking, because it really looks like the 3L from the Escape/Tribute is identical to the 2.5L right down to the water pump on the back end of the engine.

The only external difference I saw was the different intake plenum. (There many not be any of that dual IMRC stuff we have on the 2.5L)

So I was thinking that you could drop the SVT manifold and everything upstream, intake speaking on top of that, the late model engines allegedly share a crank that is compatible with the MTX-75 (unverified).

You would probably need the larger injectors of the SVT (which I think are the same as used in the 3L duratec, and perhaps some custom ECM tuning to make the computer and sensor agree on what it is seen and what it all means.

Comments?

TB

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Tony Boner
Personal: tboner@mvp.net Work: tony.boner@central.sun.com

Saving the computer world from WinBloze as Unix/Solaris/Java Guru * Sun Microsystems Rocks * http://www.sun.com
Goofing off with cars
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Duratec Vehicles
1999 Contour SE 2.5L ATX: K&N FilterCharger, SuperChip, KVR/Brembo Cross Drilled
Rotors and Pads
2000 Mazda MPV (Yes 2.5L Duratec): Bone Stock

Looking for 95-97 5speed SE as 3.0L duratec project car and 3.0L Duratec Engine
******************
Non-Duratec Vehicles
Daily Driver: 1987 Buick LeSofa^H^H^H^HSabre 3.8L V6 -- 150HP AND 215ft/lbs torque

TB,
Main problem with existing 3.0 is the FEAD,sticks out more than 2.5,if the pump is back on the came drive should be able to maintain overall engine length/width of the existing 2.5.As to the intake,dipite many opinions port deact does have merit for low speed torque and good cylinder filling by maintaining high gas velocity into the port at low engine speed,the key is the transition points,bit like an old two stage carb(Weber etc,now I'm showing my age!)Have to watch this as 'bigger is not always better',need to test both set up on a flowbench with heads ,manifolds,stock valve openings etc to get the real picture.One other point,back to cooling,should consider a rad with increased fin density,the duratech HATES to be cooked,the heads will warp in a hartbeat! re grinding them/deck face helps little as the deck & head material is thin to start with so after machining the chances of warpage are greater...keep it cool!Hope some of this helps.The moral is you can fit almost anything in anything...given time & money,is it worth it? I myself feel a wll sorted 2.5 is better than more cubes.Regards TAH

Pardon me, as I speak 'merican, but can understand English from time to time. (Reminds me of learning that my German friends while in school have the choice of learning English or American language.

If I understand, you have concerns about cooling the engine. I think the SVT has a larger capacity radiator than the standard Duratec Contour, so I suspect that would sufficiently cool our 3L vehicle.

I get the FEAD, and I think that is addressed in the packaging of the 3L for the Escape/Tribute.

And since we seldom have the opportunity to explore the higher RPM's, I personally will trade some top end HP for that good old American low end grunt. I'd be happy with 190-200HP with a really flat torque curve. So when you do tip into it, you get going right away. (Sorta like that M-Coupe I drove 6 weeks ago!)

Of course, I'd be orgasmic with 240+HP and that really flat torque curve , but now we are talking about a upgrades for the transaxle as well.

Cheers,

TB





[This message has been edited by tboner (edited September 15, 2000).]

TB
The Duratech was never designed for 'grunt',its revs are its power.Most,if not all,multi valve setups work on a lower % of cylinder filling but more of them,conventional 'grunt' type V8's with only 2 valves per pot need the higher cylinder filling.Look at a 'small' capacity F1,no low speed grunt but made up for by more revs.Not many 'multi-valve' engines out there with the grunt,but I think an F1 Cosworh/Merc Benz makes the power ok.TAH

T-boner,

Eric g. posted some dyno data with his SHM headers/Y pipe + custom chip burn awhile back demonstrating (I think) 176 HP & 170 HP @ the crank. This is about 205 HP and 200 lb/ft, comparable to the 3.0L (stock) although youll have to ask him about the curve itself - but with the dual runner intake probably the relatively flat heart shape curve. If 200 HP is ok and you want big torque, then there is 35 extra lb/ft for easier than a 3.0 swap

Dan

OK.. Here's the page I made for Terry. It ahs all the stuff he sent me.
http://crush7.dyndns.org/terry_haines.htm

Check it out. Terry, see if you can get some better scans of those pages with text on them. Can't read a damn thing!!



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Chris Hightower
http://crush7.dyndns.org/

Ahh, yes, but if I start with the 3L, then I've got a head start on 240+HP with similar torque figures. Apply a lot of the same mods and you have a pretty sweet engine!

(To be driven in sunshine only, with appropriate transaxle bits to hold it all to gether etc)

Cheers,

TB

Wow, thanks for sharing your wealth of knowledge! (Pssst....now ask him about a different oil pan Dan N.)

Cheers,
Brian

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Some Pics, Specs, and Mods
Sanctum's Car Pics

Have posted thoughts etc for Dan on the oil pan/foaming /starvation issue under 'Attn Terry Haines.Does anyone have the oil temps at time of 'blow' ?