Contour Enthusiasts Group Archives Forums General Dyno and Drag Look Quickly - A 13 Second NA Contour

Originally posted by DemonSVT:

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I ported the head inlets in such I way it helped the fuel spray go to both valves. That was a key design idea I made sure happened. I know how badly the secondary valves get caked over and rob power so keeping fuel run across them will keep them clean.

I also wanted better fuel atomization. It seems it worked just like I had planned since the 2.5L was about impossible to tune below 2500rpm without the secondaries. No matter what I did it always ran very rich under light load and idle.
The 3L is the exact opposite and I am running 24lb injectors. It runs very lean at idle and light load. So much so I had to add 25% more fuel just to balance it out! Now it hovers just above stoich. (I like it a little lean)

Another thing of MAJOR note.
I have not consumed a drop of oil with the 3L and I have over 2500 miles on it. (Running 0W40 Mobil 1)
The extra head drains are certainly doing their job and not letting oil get pulled into the valve cover vents like the 2.5L is notorious for.
Even the PCV separator has not picked up more then an ounce of oil total as well. With the 2.5L it was always getting an ounce a week. Sometimes more if I spent lots of time in the igh rpm range!

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OK now I've got a few questions:
1) How would an oval port 3L be affected if it was run WITH secondaries since you've described it without?
2) With the 2.5L running "rich" at idle or light load ... was this with or without secondaries? Does this mean I could increase my mileage by driving harder?
3)Does the better oil drainage of the 3L effectively prevent buildup in the manifolds then? (If I am understanding what you are saying correctly about the oil separator)

BTW ... you should post some videos of you and your car in action!

Originally posted by akrump47:

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1) How would an oval port 3L be affected if it was run WITH secondaries since you've described it without?
2) With the 2.5L running "rich" at idle or light load ... was this with or without secondaries? Does this mean I could increase my mileage by driving harder?
3)Does the better oil drainage of the 3L effectively prevent buildup in the manifolds then? (If I am understanding what you are saying correctly about the oil separator)

BTW ... you should post some videos of you and your car in action!

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1. It may work with an opened up UIM and changed IMRC point.
However IMO I really see little benefit gaining more power below 2500rpm unless you like cruising in your slushbox.

2. Without secondaries. The fuel atomization of the 2.5L was pretty bad at low speed and idle so it ran very rich. It was near impossible to tune. That was my "only" con to not having them. (cold weather start up was terrible ) Ever single other aspect was infinitely better for my driving style.
It's not remotely an issue with my 3L setup. (yes night & day opposite)

3. Yes it helps tremendously.
If no oil is "consumed" by the engine through the intakes they "said" build up will not occur.
Throw in the fact I have no secondaries (I/E horrid stagnant hot air) and fuel goes to BOTH valves and thus no build will occur and rob significant power.

My original Idea was to join both ports anyway for those reasons. Ford has since already done that with the tumble port (oval) heads so I just improved on their start.

Originally posted by DemonSVT:

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With my setup right now the 4.06 is definitely the better choice of final drives. There is absolutely no question about it.

The 3.84's would not help with launching and it would make every other gear a hair slower.

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Totally disagree. The Contour chassis does not have enough room under the front end to fit any tire that will hook at higher power levels, slick or not. Explain how you feel that a second gear start *could* have provided better numbers (at the possible sacrifice of parts) but a slight shift in final drive would not provide some of the same effect?

Originally posted by DemonSVT:

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Also your rpm level after each shift will be lower. That will slow you down as well.

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No, it won't. RPM split between shift changes are not effected by final drive changes. If you're spinning through second, and higher gears will stop the spinning sooner, who will get to point B first?

Originally posted by DemonSVT:

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A S/C car could probably go either way. Most likely the 3.84's would be better because it effectively lengthens the powerband & a S/C car is really only great on the highway.
However the same could be said that the 4.06's get you up into boost sooner since the S/C has to waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaait for it's real boost. (I.E. using gears 1-3 or road racing)
The lower rpm shift drop means less boost after shifting and a hair longer to get back into it "comparatively"
I would think the longer legs (I.E. top end HP) should definitely out weigh that in the top few gears. However not in the lower gears.

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SC'ed 2.5L, yes, keep stock gears. SC'ed and NA 3L, no. Low RPM torque wins nothing but bragging rights on the dyno with this chassis because none of it can make it to the ground unless you're doing a higher gear roll on starting at low RPMs. Case in point, SZ02, I dynoed 45 more FWTQ than Worldtour's SC'ed 2.5L up through about 5,000 RPM. Later, he took off in front of me from a stop... after first gear stopped spinning for both of us, he was gone!!! Lot of good that torque did me.

Originally posted by DemonSVT:

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A turbo car would benefit the most from it because of the monster flat torque curve. The loss in acceleration from prolonging each gear would likely be outweighed by having a greater TMF longer.
Also since the TQ curve is flat the lower rpm drop after shifting really makes little difference unlike an NA or S/C car.

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Agreed, for the most part.

Originally posted by DemonSVT:

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That's about as nice as I can be about the POS Vorcrap setup.
Remember my whole goal was to spite it's existence.

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I like the Vortec. Nothing you can do about it.

Originally posted by Buckshot77:

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Originally posted by wavrdr:

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Originally posted by {Kontofosho}:

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I'll own you both on the road course!

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Can I play as well???

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As long as you come to SZ!

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Hey wavrdr....if you go...I'll go!

Originally posted by bnoon:

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I like the Vortec. Nothing you can do about it.

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Originally posted by bnoon:

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1. Explain how you feel that a second gear start *could* have provided better numbers (at the possible sacrifice of parts) but a slight shift in final drive would not provide some of the same effect?

2. If you're spinning through second, and higher gears will stop the spinning sooner, who will get to point B first?

3. SC'ed 2.5L, yes, keep stock gears. SC'ed and NA 3L, no. Low RPM torque wins nothing but bragging rights on the dyno with this chassis because none of it can make it to the ground unless you're doing a higher gear roll on starting at low RPMs. Case in point, SZ02, I dynoed 45 more FWTQ than Worldtour's SC'ed 2.5L up through about 5,000 RPM. Later, he took off in front of me from a stop... after first gear stopped spinning for both of us, he was gone!!! Lot of good that torque did me.

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1. Simply put it would completely eliminate the 1-2 shift during massive wheel hop/spin. On average this shift alone was costing me up to .5 seconds. Sometimes well over a second
5% less TMF would have made zero difference here. Heck maybe more wheel hop even since spin would be harder to generate. (I'd rather have spin then hop)

Also when comparing the TMF gearing in 2nd (2.14) & 4.06's to 1st (3.42) & 3.84 it is not even close.

2nd gear with the 4.06's has ~40% less TMF. That is a lot less then the ~5% decrease of 1st & 3.84's when comparing it to 1st and 4.06's.

What I am saying is 5% less TMF mean little to nothing in first gear and 5% less TMF in 2-5 means slightly slower acceleration comparatively without the tremendous power to support the longer duration powerband. (Like a turbo or even the S/C on the highway)


2. Spin is not a tremendous problem in 2nd gear. It can be handled just by good driving ability. I'd rather have that or learn that then take away 5% from every gear because I can't/won't do either.


3. That's odd & the opposite of how I feel since I really feel my car makes incredible mid range TQ and that's why my times were so good. 2nd & 3rd gear are down right vicious from any rpm. I do most of my passing from 3-5k since I don't need to wind the engine up into the HP like the 2.5L

Not only that but if I wanted low end TQ (what I consider below 3000rpm) I would have left the IMRC operational. I bet it would make monster TQ "on a dyno" but we both know it's pointless. Heck I didn't even use it on the 2.5L Right...


I know you hated your tires and I can certainly see why! It sounds like you had more traction problems then I do.


For my current setup and fact I designed my car for road racing I know the 4.06's are the best choice for me.

Originally posted by 95Mike:

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1. My stock fd ends at 85mph.
2. Bstone said his zetec ends at 100mph.

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With the same 7500 redline and 25" tires...

4.06 in 3rd is ~95mph
3.84 in 3rd is ~100mph

Also if you shift before redline (a good idea ) it is more like 94 and 98 respectively.

Not a big difference really.

Originally posted by DemonSVT:

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I know you hated your tires and I can certainly see why! It sounds like you had more traction problems then I do.

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Originally posted by bnoon:

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NVH police around your area? Ever think of trying solid mounts/restrictors? Or a torque strap? Both helped me out a ton!

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I have 100% solid roll resistors and slightly filled main trans and engine mounts.

We are taking ROCK HARD 94A urethane casting compound.

I also strengthed the front control arms a bit with it since everything was easily accesible.


The powertrain does not move at all under load. Yes NVH went up but who cares right... (mainly my turn signal stalk buzzes now ) I have a nice stereo anyway.

I don't get wheel hop on the street. Only at the track because they love VHT!!!
What I really need to do now is be all practiced up so my first few runs are my best. You know. BEFORE they lay down the 15 minute coats of VHT and heat... (sure the RWD cars love it though)
That way I can get in a good 4-6 passes right away and then stop before everyone else get's in line.


The problem I have with "hammering" it in the corner is now both tires spin instead of just one and I lose steering. (have to love FWD. NOT!)