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Okay, I made reference to this subject in another thread, but I wanted to bring it to the forefront and see if others had any opinions one way or another.
Taking into account the new PAX index, I got to wondering if the Contour SVT would be a better fit for STX than STS. Consider the fact that there are headers for the SVT that eliminate the pre-cats, aftermarket chips that you can dyno-tune to your mods, Quaife LSDs that can allow you to take advantage of the power advantage that you have over 95% of the competition, and the benefit of 15/16x8 inch rims available. With the exception of the aftermarket chip, the mods above are STX only, and, in my opinion are ones that are a real bonus for the Contour. You are fighting the weight disadvantage from the get go, and without the ability to get your power advantage to the ground, you are up to your knees in quicksand.
I am going to put the caveat on this that price is not object, here. Say you have unlimited budget... Quaife, couple hundred hours of dyno time (yeah, this is excessive, but trying to make a point, here). As far as wheels go, I don't think you get any advantage here toher than the fact that I think that the 205 Azenis fit better on an 8 inch rim as oposed to a 7 inch one. I think this would allow for less sidewall bulge/flex.
Anyone have any thoughts or opinions on this? Think I am out in left field??
Opinions and comments welcome.
Mark
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Those who understand binary, and those who don't.
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Are you saying put a 205 tire on an 8" wide wheel? That would be a stretch I'd think. I know people with 205s on 6" wide wheels, and I know most people run 215s on a 7" wide wheel. So I'd think 215 (at least) or 225 would be better for a 8" wheel.
98.5 SVT
91 Escort GT (almost sold)
96 ATX Zetec (i brake to watch you swerve)
FS: SVT rear sway bar
WTB: Very cheap beater
CEG Dragon Run - October 13-15
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Unfortunately, I cannot speak from personal experience on this. I have never put it on an 8in wheel; however, there are many that have, and claim that it works best that way. I had the same reservations myself, but scca gurus say otherwise... Regardless, you could put the 225 or 215 on there if you wanted. The added inch in width should help some, I should think. The Quaife is definitely going to be the saviour, though.
There are 10 kinds of people...
Those who understand binary, and those who don't.
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I'll start with the usual mantra: In your "money is no object" balance sheet, factor in hundreds of hours of driving school and you'll be set. As I say many times, here, there's a local Wichita guy who runs his bone-stock SVT in STS, and is very competitive because he is a good driver.
That said, you make some good points, but I'm wondering what your goal is. Are you looking for a class to be nationally competitive in? Of course the SVT will be faster with all the STX goodies, but so should the rest of the STX field. Granted STX might have some heavier cars, in which case, it might be a better place for us since STS is turning into a haven for 2,000 lbs, 1980's Civics.
Otherwise, I don't really see any serious handicaps (besides weight) in STS. You can run 7.5" wheels, and that's as wide as I would go with a 205/55 tire, even if 8" does work better. (It's still a street car, after all.) I just don't see a jump to STX "fixing" anything, except our lust for more goodies.
If I ever actually get there, once I tap out all the allowed STS mods, I may make the jump, myself, just because It'd be cool to have headers and LSD. Otherwise, I don't see the point.
Function before fashion.
'96 Contour SE
"Toss the Contour into a corner, and it's as easy to catch as a softball thrown by a preschooler." -Edmunds, 1998
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Originally posted by RogerB:
factor in hundreds of hours of driving school and you'll be set.
I couldn't agree more. I have taken the Evolution school, and intent to take another one again this coming year. This was by far the best thing I have done for myself as far as autocrossing is concerned. I cannot emphasize enough how much good this will do you.
Originally posted by RogerB:
I'm wondering what your goal is. Are you looking for a class to be nationally competitive in? Of course the SVT will be faster with all the STX goodies, but so should the rest of the STX field.
Well, to be honest, I don't really have much of a goal. I was just wanting to start a little discussion about STX and voice my own personal opinions about the Contour's fitment in that class. I drove the SVT extensively for a couple seasons, and came to a few conclusions as to what I felt were the shortcomings of the car. Admittedly, some or most can be chalked up to the driver. My thoughts after a few seasons in the car was that it had fantastic brakes, very good acceleration, and good stready state cornering. The areas I felt the 'tour bogged in is transitions (slolams, chicago boxes, etc), and putting all that lovely power to the ground coming off the corners.
I was running GStock, so the suspension could very well be tuned for better transitions via a nice Ground Control setup or something similar. Ultimately, i think you are going to be giving up something to most others in the class because the car just weights so much. This can be accomplished in either STS or STX, so not as much of a factor.
As I said earlier, the LSD is the jewel here. Allowing you to get on the power sooner, and put most, if not all of it, to the ground, is really going to help out. Couple this with the allowance in STX to get rid of the restrictive pre-cat header thing, and dyno-tune/reflash, and you have a bit more power on tap to boot.
I don't feel the contour can be a nationally competitive car. I do feel that it is a great car, and can win locally and perhaps even divisionally, in the right hands. I think it could do this in GS, STS, or STX. So it isn't about that, really. It is just that it seems that there are a few who are prepping the car for GS, many who prep for STS, and even a few with motor swaps and turbos going to SM. Yet, there is little or no talk about STX, which, after looking at the ruleset, seems would be a great fit for the Contour. Couple this with the fact that the STS PAX went up this year, while the STX did not, and bear in mind that most who compete in the Contour do it locally where PAX is often a mitigating factor in results, and I think that those who are into the stuff on this level should definitely take a closer look at this class. That is mostly where I am going with this thought/thread.
As far as my personal autocross goals go, I am going to own up to something, here. I don't run the SVT anymore. I got rid of it and run a Toyota Celica; however, it was the SVT that got me into autocross in the first place, and I still feel loyal to the autocrossers here. As such, I thought I would voice my thoughts on the STX class and perhaps open an avenue to others that they had perhaps not considered before.
There are 10 kinds of people...
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Quote:
As I said earlier, the LSD is the jewel here.
Yeah. But if my clutch goes bad and my tranny has to come out, I would hope, at that time, to take the opportunity to install a Fidanza flywheel, fancy clutch, etc. But that would put me in SP or SM.
So, I know you said money was no object (for the sake of discussion), but I have to say that it's always an object, and makes matters more interesting. Anyway, I just don't know if it's worth it for me to crack everything open just for the LSD.
I know I'm much better off in STS than GS, since in GS, I compete with SVT's on a slanted playing ground. In STS, I can make enough suspension mods to make up for my power deficit, and I may even have a slightly lighter car. (That's my theory, anyway.) STX? If I just really wanted headers, I could live there a while. But it would be a tough field.
Function before fashion.
'96 Contour SE
"Toss the Contour into a corner, and it's as easy to catch as a softball thrown by a preschooler." -Edmunds, 1998
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Removing weight and having a CF hood would put you into what class?
98.5 SVT
91 Escort GT (almost sold)
96 ATX Zetec (i brake to watch you swerve)
FS: SVT rear sway bar
WTB: Very cheap beater
CEG Dragon Run - October 13-15
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Originally posted by Kremithefrog:
Removing weight and having a CF hood would put you into what class?
I think it would put you in SM, based on this from the SM section:
Quote:
The firewall, roof, doors, rear quarter panels, floor pan, trunk lid (if any) or rear hatch (if any) must remain stock. Holes may be drilled to allow attachment of body kits, etc. This specifically allows replacement hoods, fenders, wings, front & rear fascias, side skirts, and fender flares as per Section 14. Body panels may be attached with removeable (e.g., Dzus) fasteners.
Although some people think that this line in the STS rule leaves it open:
Quote:
Spoilers, body kits, rear wings, etc.
That "etc." has probably caused some headaches, but based on the intent of STS, and the fact that hoods are not really allowed in SP, I'd say you're looking at SM.
Function before fashion.
'96 Contour SE
"Toss the Contour into a corner, and it's as easy to catch as a softball thrown by a preschooler." -Edmunds, 1998
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Well I know nothing about these classes or the events themselves, but I know SM would be a harder class... My low weight would give me an advantage over other cars in some of those classes, but I don't have enough horsepower to go into some heavily moddified class. That sucks,, not that I'm ever gonna get to do it anyways. Even if I had the chance to auto-x, I'd need smaller wheels and better tires to even think of being competitive.
98.5 SVT
91 Escort GT (almost sold)
96 ATX Zetec (i brake to watch you swerve)
FS: SVT rear sway bar
WTB: Very cheap beater
CEG Dragon Run - October 13-15
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Originally posted by Kremithefrog:
Well I know nothing about these classes or the events themselves, but I know SM would be a harder class... My low weight would give me an advantage over other cars in some of those classes, but I don't have enough horsepower to go into some heavily moddified class. That sucks,, not that I'm ever gonna get to do it anyways. Even if I had the chance to auto-x, I'd need smaller wheels and better tires to even think of being competitive.
Competitive, schmetitive. Just go out and have fun. Locally, we have a "street open" class that's just a catchall for people with weird mods who don't want to run SM. I mean, there's no money in it, so who cares if you go out an win on your first go?
Function before fashion.
'96 Contour SE
"Toss the Contour into a corner, and it's as easy to catch as a softball thrown by a preschooler." -Edmunds, 1998
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