|
|
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 146
CEG\'er
|
OP
CEG\'er
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 146 |
What rotors are better, Autospecialty or Maxim?? Or are they the same?
99 Silver CSVT #1081/2760
97 Nissan Altima
83 Corolla SR5 RWD bondo/rust body 'ghetto cruiser' RIP
78 Winnebago Minnie (Dodge Chassis 23') 440cid 4bbl.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 337
CEG\'er
|
|
CEG\'er
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 337 |
Define 'better'.
If you have delusions of better stopping with one rotor over another it simply won't happen. Brake torque is an equation of leverage and such. Rotors of like diameter have no effect on torque.
Better may simply be the ones you like better for looks, have plating on them for better rust prevention, or are cheaper for a better price.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 21,653
I have no life
|
|
I have no life
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 21,653 |
Any idea if the EBC rotors from BAT are any good? I'm talking life of the rotor,stuff like that. I hope I didn't waste my money.
98.5 SVT
91 Escort GT (almost sold)
96 ATX Zetec (i brake to watch you swerve)
FS: SVT rear sway bar
WTB: Very cheap beater
CEG Dragon Run - October 13-15
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 283
CEG\'er
|
|
CEG\'er
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 283 |
Originally posted by Todd TCE:
Define 'better'.
If you have delusions of better stopping with one rotor over another it simply won't happen. Brake torque is an equation of leverage and such. Rotors of like diameter have no effect on torque.
Better may simply be the ones you like better for looks, have plating on them for better rust prevention, or are cheaper for a better price.
Todd, what about the friction between the pad and the rotor?
If I understand that interaction correctly (and it may be that I don't), the friction is created not by the pad to rotor contact but by the pad depositing material on the rotor and the friction that is created between the pad and the pad material deposited on the rotor.
Wouldn't the rotor's composition iron vs. stainless steel, etc., affect this or would the differences be so small as to be inconsequential?
Regards, Alan
03 Volvo S60 2.5T AWD
98 Mystique 2.5 MTX
99 SVT - Inheriting Lil Monster's parts
98 SVT - Lil Monster (RIP) 183.7 whp
Quaife/Fidanza/UR UD Clutch
AFE/MSDS/SHO-Y/Bassani/MagnaCore
GC/Koni/22mmR/EndLinks/ES/
KVR Slotted/1144's/SS Lines/MASItaly
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 3,867
Hard-core CEG'er
|
|
Hard-core CEG'er
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 3,867 |
Originally posted by Alan Coles:
Originally posted by Todd TCE:
Define 'better'.
If you have delusions of better stopping with one rotor over another it simply won't happen. Brake torque is an equation of leverage and such. Rotors of like diameter have no effect on torque.
Better may simply be the ones you like better for looks, have plating on them for better rust prevention, or are cheaper for a better price.
Todd, what about the friction between the pad and the rotor?
If I understand that interaction correctly (and it may be that I don't), the friction is created not by the pad to rotor contact but by the pad depositing material on the rotor and the friction that is created between the pad and the pad material deposited on the rotor.
Wouldn't the rotor's composition iron vs. stainless steel, etc., affect this or would the differences be so small as to be inconsequential?
Regards, Alan
It's a mixture of abrasive and, ummmm, "whatever-it's-called" friction that you describe, and I think it depends more on pad material except in exotic cases like carbon rotors. Almost any rotor you can buy is cast iron, as stainless steel makes a poor rotor material.
Now, not all cast iron is created equal. The casting process can vary. There's a lot more to metallurgy than meets the eye. Still, the rotor "brand" shouldn't affect your stopping power a great deal, but it may affect how often you replace your rotors.
Function before fashion.
'96 Contour SE
"Toss the Contour into a corner, and it's as easy to catch as a softball thrown by a preschooler." -Edmunds, 1998
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 337
CEG\'er
|
|
CEG\'er
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 337 |
I think Rodger has said it well enough for most of us.
I'm not a metalurgest, and don't claim to be one. (I didn't even sleep at a Holidy Inn Express last night) But we are speaking of cast iron rotors from a number of manufactures and when one asks for a 'better rotor' it's pretty hard to define.
The Cf of the package is based on the Pads, not the rotor. Of course a rough rotor surface would be interesting, but not practical. lol
One thing I did think of later which could be considered worth looking into is the center vent area vs. rotor wall thickness. The fatter the rotor wall the more heat it can absorb before being saturated, BUT this means less vent area too. Makes for compromise. I don't believe any aftermarket maker offers directional vaned rotors either, this would be considered a plus, however mostly in the high speed area.
While it would take extensive testing to show one brand of replacement to be better than another, it's more likely they are of equal value to the normal user. More often when someone says their brakes are so much better with brand X rotors they neglect to mention the new pads and hoses and ? that they did at the same time. When was the last time you heard of someone installing new rotors only?
Pick one you like (yes, with or without holes) and run with it. Just don't expect earth shattering changes in your brakng performance.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 146
CEG\'er
|
|
OP
CEG\'er
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 146 |
Originally posted by Todd TCE:
Define 'better'.
If you have delusions of better stopping with one rotor over another it simply won't happen. Brake torque is an equation of leverage and such. Rotors of like diameter have no effect on torque.
Better may simply be the ones you like better for looks, have plating on them for better rust prevention, or are cheaper for a better price.
OK ..."Better" = less likely to warp and better heat dissipation.
Delusions?? How about brake fade from lack of heat dissipation?? Less brake fade sounds like better stopping to me. Can you supply any useful information, or do you always play dumb and try to put people down any chance you get?
99 Silver CSVT #1081/2760
97 Nissan Altima
83 Corolla SR5 RWD bondo/rust body 'ghetto cruiser' RIP
78 Winnebago Minnie (Dodge Chassis 23') 440cid 4bbl.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 283
CEG\'er
|
|
CEG\'er
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 283 |
Originally posted by SVT_CT:
Originally posted by Todd TCE:
Define 'better'.
If you have delusions of better stopping with one rotor over another it simply won't happen. Brake torque is an equation of leverage and such. Rotors of like diameter have no effect on torque.
Better may simply be the ones you like better for looks, have plating on them for better rust prevention, or are cheaper for a better price.
OK ..."Better" = less likely to warp and better heat dissipation.
Delusions?? How about brake fade from lack of heat dissipation?? Less brake fade sounds like better stopping to me. Can you supply any useful information, or do you always play dumb and try to put people down any chance you get?
I can't give you any first-hand info, only used the SVT rotors so far, but I've heard good things about KVR's rotors from several people. I've heard conflicting reports on BAT's "Premium Euro Rotors".
With regard to warping, remember to never let the shop use an impact wrench to torque the lug nuts. OK to snug them up with one but use a torque wrench to finish in an alternating pattern to 85 ft/lbs???
I think that's the new Ford spec. Anyone know for sure?
Most rotor warping appears to be from:
1 - overtightening lug nuts
2 - not bedding-in or breaking in new rotors/pads properly
3 - overheating rotors/pads and getting uneven pad material transfer
Regards, Alan
03 Volvo S60 2.5T AWD
98 Mystique 2.5 MTX
99 SVT - Inheriting Lil Monster's parts
98 SVT - Lil Monster (RIP) 183.7 whp
Quaife/Fidanza/UR UD Clutch
AFE/MSDS/SHO-Y/Bassani/MagnaCore
GC/Koni/22mmR/EndLinks/ES/
KVR Slotted/1144's/SS Lines/MASItaly
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 464
CEG\'er
|
|
CEG\'er
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 464 |
Rotors are rotors. The majority of rotors are all the same so don't worry about that. Put your money into getting good pads.
Dan
Acura Integra GS-R w/mods
Former owner of a 95 SE
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 337
CEG\'er
|
|
CEG\'er
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 337 |
Sorry, but I don't feel I was putting anyone down in any manner. I'm simply pointing out that the term 'better' once again has different meaning to different folks. Your post here is the first to define what YOU feel is better. Perhaps others better was one which stopped the car shorter, had plating on it, or even has special drilled holes for black magic looks.
In the simplest of terms, the use of any stock size rotor of any manufacture is not likely to boost the 'performance of the brakes' in some manner equated to shorter stopping distances. Yes, maybe some sort of gains are there for improved head room of upper temps by the use of fatter walls on the rotor. Had you read my second post you'd see this is pointed out. But this upper heat capacity comes at a price of thinner air gaps, thus when it gets hot it's going to tend to stay hot longer. Assuming it's moving. Brake fade is more often from pads exceeding their temp range than the rotors. Rotors too will have a saturation point as you suggest. The 'delusion' comes from only the hype of many companies telling you that brand X rotor is somehow going to decrease stopping distances, suggesting more brake torque. Which we know is simply not true.
Less likely to warp is an intersting request. More iron will supply you more saturation point. Maybe that will help. However I'd stil say most 'warpage' comes from lack of proper cooling than too much heat.
Sorry if I'm playing dumb, I'm only offering up what I can. Take it for what you feel it's worth.
|
|
|
|
|
