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I've found some info, but i can't find the how to on gutting the pre-cats. Can someone please point the way.
98 contour 2.5 GL
no mods, just trying to keep it running
till it's paid off.
Then the fun will begin.
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ITS NOT WORTH THE HEADACHE, trust me 
"THEE" Roger R
USMondeo@aol.com
2005 Crossfire Limited coupe'
-FOR SALE @buyout price & I'll...
-throw in my 93' Regal as winter car
*Dragon Run 06'...Oct 12-15th*
Puur-fection Auto Detailing
Complete packages from $140.00
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I don't think i have a choice, I just replaced one (one closest to the firewall), and i think it's clogged again. And i can't afford another. I'm gonna do the intake manifold/secondaries cleaning to fix the root problem, but i don't think the cat issue will clear itself up on its own.
98 contour 2.5 GL
no mods, just trying to keep it running
till it's paid off.
Then the fun will begin.
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BTW, i've got a 98 tour with 186 thousand km on the odometer, with some serious drivability/power issues.
98 contour 2.5 GL
no mods, just trying to keep it running
till it's paid off.
Then the fun will begin.
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I say screw gutting em...just buy MSDS headers and off road y...I love trees!! 
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Sometimes people can only spend what they have...buying MSDS headders is exoensive...even with a group buy. Some would rather sped the time than the money. Good Luck...Im doing mine this weekeend.....My MSDS headders got stolen form my back yard when i was chaging the gasjets....I left for 15 min to get food. 
3.0 SVT hybrid...all the fixens...Track/Race ready very soon!!!!!! 20,000 + miles
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Originally posted by Mapitazifosho:
I say screw gutting em...just buy MSDS headers and off road y...I love trees!!
I win..3L gutted precats, 24lb injectors(not tuned yet), guttted intakes(mixing more fuel) and true duals right off the gutted precats to straight through mufflers  ...like my sig?
Derek Johnson
88 TurboTBird 32psi, t3/t4 bb 50trim, megasquirt, 3 bar map, 50lb inj, roller cam w adj. gear, header, 3" downpipe and full exhaust, gutted intake manifolds, spec stg 3
95SE 3L gone
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as long as you dont have a problem getting the y-pipe off its really easy i didnt even take them off of the car i know its not the recomended way but i couldnt get them off, as long as you have a shop vac i dont see a problem
"Youth ages, immaturity is outgrown, ignorance can be educated, and drunkenness sobered, but STUPID lasts forever."-Aristophanes.
--93 pgt,headers,intake,borla=14.9 1/4mile
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i dont want to hi-jack the disscusion but whats the bottom line here .do you gain power or not and if yes how much rougthly?
i thought you could get anything upto 15 bhp,is this true or a little optimistic?
2001 mondeo st24 rsap saloon,piper x cone filter,pro flow 75mm maf,cta,svt tb,silicone engine hoses,ecotec valve,twin cat back zorst,17 inch bsa 214 alloys,lowered 40 mm,st200 full interior
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Im gutting the cats as we speak....i got the back one guted but the front im having trouble...i do not want to cut or drill a hole into but i will do it as a last resort....But is there any way to gut the front cat with out cutting???
Roz
3.0 SVT hybrid...all the fixens...Track/Race ready very soon!!!!!! 20,000 + miles
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As far as the front cat you might have to drill a hole big enough to put an 1/4 or 3/8 extension through it and hammer the stuff out. then all you have to so is weld the little hole back up.
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Whats the deal guys?? Don't you think the precats where put there for a reason?? Why would you gut them? Why not just get a high flow Y or something
Canada = little France
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Originally posted by armstrkw:
Whats the deal guys?? Don't you think the precats where put there for a reason?? Why would you gut them? Why not just get a high flow Y or something
MORE POWER!!!
~~~~~~Mike~~~~~~
Black 2006 VW Rabbit
Silver 2000 Contour SVT - SOLD
~~~~ The Car~~~~~
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I was thinking about gutting my precats, but Ontario now has emmissions and I'm worried if I'll pass the test or not. I'm also considerin MSDS hedders if I can make some decent $$$ this summer... I hate being in college....
1997
Thunderbird LX
Clairion HU, sub and amp
In the works:
true duals, headers, cobra MAF
In the works: Mustang with a big block
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any rough estimates on power to be gained.also will you need mil eliminators?
2001 mondeo st24 rsap saloon,piper x cone filter,pro flow 75mm maf,cta,svt tb,silicone engine hoses,ecotec valve,twin cat back zorst,17 inch bsa 214 alloys,lowered 40 mm,st200 full interior
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Originally posted by harry hatchet:
any rough estimates on power to be gained.also will you need mil eliminators?
I think someone dynoed this mod at 5-6 HP gain but they may have had some other mods included. You'll need mil eliminators for the after-cat set of O2 sensors or you'll have a constant CEL.
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Originally posted by Roz 1999 SVT-C:
Im gutting the cats as we speak....i got the back one guted but the front im having trouble...i do not want to cut or drill a hole into but i will do it as a last resort....But is there any way to gut the front cat with out cutting???
Roz
You MUST cut the front one open, as you REALY need to get all the steel-wool brick-isolator out of there or if any is left over it can be sucked into your engine. 
It happened on canamSVT's engine, and it toasted it. He now has a 3L, but that's not the way he planned on getting one.......
2000 SVT Turbo 295hp/269ftlb@12psi
#1 for Bendix Brakes Kits!
Knuckles rebuilt w/new bearings $55
AUSSIE ENDLINKS $70
Gutted pre-cats $80/set
A lack of planning on your part does not constitute an emergency on mine!
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no cel's for me...obd 1 baby
Derek Johnson
88 TurboTBird 32psi, t3/t4 bb 50trim, megasquirt, 3 bar map, 50lb inj, roller cam w adj. gear, header, 3" downpipe and full exhaust, gutted intake manifolds, spec stg 3
95SE 3L gone
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I think the average gain is anywhere from 5-8 hp. You shouldn't have any trouble passing emissions as long as you make the MIL eliminaters. Make sure you follow the directions as stated in the how to. Dont cut corners! It could be the death of you engine! 
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Here is the MIL eliminater how-to.
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I don't think anyone can post an "average gain" because there hasn't been enough accurate data posted to make any averages!
Everytime someone guts the pre-cats there is something else done simultaneously.
If your pre-cats are starting to plug up you will gain back the lost power. If your pre-cats are not plugged up then I don't think you will gain any 5-8 HP. If the pre-cats have enough flow area to equal the flow area of the piping following them, then you will gain nothing other than an expansion chamber which = BAD. The honeycomb will induce some drag, but at least the flow is laminar and not turbulent which could be worth a lot of power.
What I can say for sure is I didn't notice any improvement going to gutted pre-cats, but I noticed a huge improvement going from gutted pre-cats to MSDS headers, and I dyno'd this proof to the tune of 7-11 ft-lb increase in torque in the 3000 rpm range and at least a 4 ft-lb increase in torque 2000-5500 rpm range.
They are not equivalent mods, the MSDS headers flow better, increase scavenging and are probably 40% lighter so you drop weight off the car.
I would only gut the pre-cats when they are beginning to fail.
I'm only speaking from experience since I've done both of the mods we're talking about.
warmonger
Former owner of '99 CSVT - Silver #222/2760
356/334 wHP/TQ at 10psi on pump gas!
See My Mods
'05 Volvo S40 Turbo 5 AWD with 6spd, Passion Red
'06 Mazda5 Touring, 5spd,MTX, Black
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 Thanks for the info guys im doing this right now, I was just lost on how to get the stuff out of the front cat but now I know thanks much! 
98 SE V6 MTX
T RED
bridgestone potenza re950
open air filter
side makers and removed ding guards , gutted percats, no muffler
SVT brakes
SpecIII cluch and spec flywheel
torsen diff soon
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Hi, I have this great idea, car companyâ??s spend countless time and money getting the cars emissions down to what they are and you guys want to throw all of this away?? Whatâ??s the point? Make some kind of other improvements, why take your cars back to the 70's? With all of the options out there, just don't seem like a good option at least I wouldn't want it on my conscience. Now you guys are throwing out all kinds of soxâ??s, noxâ??s, and even unburned hydrocarbons into the air. I am not some tree hugger but have respect for the world around me. It kind of like going back to leaded gas, I mean there is a performance advantage but hello????
Canada = little France
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Originally posted by armstrkw:
Hi, I have this great idea, car companyâ??s spend countless time and money getting the cars emissions down to what they are and you guys want to throw all of this away?? Whatâ??s the point? Make some kind of other improvements, why take your cars back to the 70's? With all of the options out there, just don't seem like a good option at least I wouldn't want it on my conscience. Now you guys are throwing out all kinds of soxâ??s, noxâ??s, and even unburned hydrocarbons into the air. I am not some tree hugger but have respect for the world around me. It kind of like going back to leaded gas, I mean there is a performance advantage but hello????
 someone's been listening to al gore a little too much...lol...
new,new ride!
'99 svt
black/mnb
'95 mustang gt sold!
'98 svt #800 sold!
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Gore has a great environmental outlook; just because I care and am educated in the subject doesnâ??t mean I voted for Gore. I donâ??t trust Gore running us in a war situation and I donâ??t trust Bush with anything having to do with the environment. Maybe you just enjoy fâ??ing earth up, open your eyes.
Canada = little France
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Originally posted by armstrkw:
Gore has a great environmental outlook; just because I care and am educated in the subject doesnâ??t mean I voted for Gore. I donâ??t trust Gore running us in a war situation and I donâ??t trust Bush with anything having to do with the environment. Maybe you just enjoy fâ??ing earth up, open your eyes.
yes i do enjoy f'ing up the earth...i got no main cat on my svt,get over it...i also got a 12 second stang,with offroad exhaust,and i love polluting the air with it...lol...
you are just a tool of this society that believes all the propaganda that dumba$$es like gore spews out...you claim to be soooo educated on the subject,but i believe you just too easily believe the SO CALLED truths of these enviornmental morons...have you done any actual tests on what a gutted cat does to the atmosphere???????i seriously doubt it.....
maybe you should do a little more reading on the subject,besides what these tree hugging morons write....there are several books that have been written on the subject by scientists that HAVE done research on the subject...and MANY of them claim that all this crap about automobile emissions being so terrible for the enviornment are false...and also that the ozone layer has been naturally depleting over the entire life of this atmosphere,and how automobiles are NOT as major of a contributor as some would like you to believe...
these "so called" enviornmental politicians are the same ones making it hard on us automotive enthusiasts,while they are taking under the table payoffs from the real polluters of the enviornment the factories,and manufacturing plants....and have you ever noticed how much smoke and crap you see pour out of city busses whenever they take off???do you actually think these busses have to adhere to the same emissions laws as you and i do????i seriously doubt it...its a double standard...
so don't come on here and try and preach to us about your enviornmental bs....this was a thread about gutting your precats,not how YOU feel about the enviornment...if you don't want to gut your cats,then fine don't....but some do,and if youy have nothing to add to the topic,then maybe you shouldn't comment at all...
new,new ride!
'99 svt
black/mnb
'95 mustang gt sold!
'98 svt #800 sold!
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You are so right, its all clear now. I just took all of my cats off all of my cars. Global warming is for the birds. I would love to know how many of your sources are from republican sponsored research. Did you hear that Bush just hired a select committee to try to find that global warming wasn't a problem and they found out the opposite? This was his own guys!!! I am really not a big fan of Gore's, I respect him, but I disagree with a lot of things he does and says. I am not some Gore fan, but saying that your gutted cars arenâ??t polluting the environment is just plain ignorant. Thatâ??s the problem with the world people like you with a high school education believing whatever is thrown at you. If you want the data of a 1970â??s car (which is yours without cats, or little for cats) vs. an average carâ??s now emissions I have it. There is around a 5 to 10 fold difference, but hey dumass its was faked right by Gore I am assuming???
Canada = little France
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Originally posted by warmonger:
I would only gut the pre-cats when they are beginning to fail.
I'm only speaking from experience since I've done both of the mods we're talking about.
warmonger
I agree. I started with a gutted main cat after talking with Ray McNairy (RIP). It had definite noticeable gains in power and TQ - immediately felt more low end TQ steer. I dyno'd like this with a KKN, UDP, SVT TB and a dynomax on the stock 2" SE piping I got 154hp and 156 tq. Then shoot ahead a few years, and I suspect my pre cats to be failing - so I gut them. Notice ZERO gain in power and huge bog around secondary tranistion, plus car sounds just a bit like a deisel truck. Given I now have 3 expansion chambers which has got to be bad, but I go ahead and put a new main cat back on. The mid range bog goes away, but I still feel like I lost top end power vs just the gutted main.
Anyway, gutted precats may give you some power, but in my expeience it's even less than what you get with a gutted main cat (which everybody claims will make you lose power.)
Oh and on the envvironmeent thing - I passed CA sniffer tests with the main cat gone, and with the precats gone.
My .02
97 Contour SE MTX
K&N 3530, UR UDP, 19# Injectors, mystery mod, FMS wires, Fordchip.com chip, SVT: TB, Flywheel, clutch, exhaust
04 Grand Caravan SXT
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If you passed the Ca sniffer test, then you are fine by me, excellent job!! My beef is with people who gut everything mostly. Gutting your precats will effect your emissions during your first couple of minutes of your drive cycle. This is due to them being close to the engine and allowed to heat up to operating temperature very quickly. So this isnâ??t the worst thing you could do, especially if you make long trips. When however, you gut your main ones you are just throwing shite into the air we breath. Just not a good alternative, especially when all the research has been put into making these system behave the way they do which is really well!!! I am surprised your car didnâ??t flag something if it was a cold start????
Canada = little France
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Originally posted by armstrkw:
Thatâ??s the problem with the world people like you with a high school education believing whatever is thrown at you. If you want the data of a 1970â??s car (which is yours without cats, or little for cats) vs. an average carâ??s now emissions I have it. There is around a 5 to 10 fold difference, but hey dumass its was faked right by Gore I am assuming???
ok you can stop with the personal insults...which i never rescall personally attacking you...first of all i happen to have a frickin' college degree,so don't call me a high school educated duma$$,when you don't even fuggin' know me.....just because someone doesn't agree with you doesn't make them ignorant...you should really watch what you say.....
i've actually read quite a bit on the subject,and actually wrote a college term paper on the subject.....and my views were formed along time ago,has nothing to do with bush or any republicans....its still a well known fact that factories and manufacturing plants are causing far more pollution than automobiles do,and when some duma$$ from one of these plants causes a major enviornmental catastrophe,the company just says sorry and then we all pay for their mistakes with stricter emission regulations on our vehicles,when we are not the root cause in the first place...
and if your boy al gore had his way we would all be driving friggin' generic electric cars.....i as well as many automotive enthusiasts are having to pay for things that are not our fault...i read many,many books and articles on this subject...and there were many proven facts about older cars,and LOTS of them were shown to actually be safer to the enviornment,then some of these newer cars that actually passed an emissions test....the guy that just posted he passed his emissions test,just even further proves my point,that automobiles(even ones with gutted cats on them,such as in this case)are NOT causing as much damage as people like al gore,and puppets like your self,who believe everything these enviornmentalists say or write,seem to think....
the guy who you just said was ok because he passed his sniffer test,said he GUTTED his cats,which you originally stated was wrong!!!!huh why don't you make up your mind!!!!his gutting is no different than anybody else's...so basically you have no point at all...i am through ruining this thread with enviornmental bs...if you don't have anything to add to the actual topic,then why don't you stop posting on it then...i am done arguing with you pm me if you want to keep insulting me,and lets get this back ON TOPIC...your personal insults just further show your ignorance....
new,new ride!
'99 svt
black/mnb
'95 mustang gt sold!
'98 svt #800 sold!
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ok, we all have opinions! but i just want o know one thing!!! what are th hp gains some have seen? my motor is out and i figure ill do it now, and i just want know what to expect and if its worth it!
98 SVT, silver frost, with blue graphics.
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I cant really tell you for sure what kinds of gains I got, but I could feel a difference. It could be due to the precats being clogged or it could not be. I did have fairly low miles on the car when I did it. Either way to me, it was worth it.
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Originally posted by armstrkw:
Gore has a great environmental outlook; just because I care and am educated in the subject doesnâ??t mean I voted for Gore. I donâ??t trust Gore running us in a war situation and I donâ??t trust Bush with anything having to do with the environment. Maybe you just enjoy fâ??ing earth up, open your eyes.
Hey dufus, check the facts before you post. The main catalytic converter is still in place AND the car still passes emissions!
Pre-cats are for cold start emission and heat up faster than the main cat. Letting the car idle about 3-5 minutes before driving is enough time to heat the main cat up.
Not all cars use pre-cats. Just depends on the position of the main cat. I moved my cat forward more and used header wrap and I guarantee it lights off a lot quicker than it used to!
warmonger
Former owner of '99 CSVT - Silver #222/2760
356/334 wHP/TQ at 10psi on pump gas!
See My Mods
'05 Volvo S40 Turbo 5 AWD with 6spd, Passion Red
'06 Mazda5 Touring, 5spd,MTX, Black
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If the combustion process is efficient then most of the pollutants are consumed there in the chamber.
Have you ever full throttled your car to pass someone? Or to take off fast? Ever smell the rotten-egg smell from yours or someone elses exhaust?
Happens all the time and is caused by UNBURNT FUEL in the exhaust hitting the catalytic converters where it is still unburnt after coming out. Its hypocritical to think that because you retain a stock emissions system that you don't pollute. Stop driving your car, that will solve the problem.
I appreciate the comment about minimizing pollution, but you are going way overboard. If you can pass the state emissions test then you should have a clean conscience.
You know what they say, "Changes start with me first." Sell of your car and buy a bicycle, then you can talk about how great of an environmentalist you are.
warmonger
Take that advice to heart and buy a bicycle.
Former owner of '99 CSVT - Silver #222/2760
356/334 wHP/TQ at 10psi on pump gas!
See My Mods
'05 Volvo S40 Turbo 5 AWD with 6spd, Passion Red
'06 Mazda5 Touring, 5spd,MTX, Black
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"Happens all the time and is caused by UNBURNT FUEL in the exhaust hitting the catalytic converters where it is still unburnt after coming out. Its hypocritical to think that because you retain a stock emissions system that you don't pollute. Stop driving your car, that will solve the problem"
You know that the catalytic converter works to oxidize the unburnt fuel and essentially burn it right?? Therefore there will be less unburt fuel coming out. It does this when the engine management system runs slightly lean and then slightly rich, modern cars do this constantly. Thus oxidizing what needs to be oxidized and ripping oxygen from what needs to be deoxidized. There are 3 basic reactions going on fluctuating with the amount fuel delivered to the cylindering in the first place.
For the second part of your question, I do pollute, but I try to limit it, I recycle and I keep my cats in place to do what they were designed to do. If that makes me an Al Gore freak then I guess I am, but I donâ??t see the connection. Currently I am working on fuel cell research which would be doing my part for the greater good tomorrow. Not because I am some green tree hugger but because fuel cells are going to be the way of the future like it or not Mustang guys. I just dont see how me wanting my stock cars in place make me some extreme nut.
Canada = little France
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"Pre-cats are for cold start emission and heat up faster than the main cat. Letting the car idle about 3-5 minutes before driving is enough time to heat the main cat up."
Hey num nuts I just said that in my second post. What good does letting the car warm up do for you? Is is just sitting there why not just drive it to let it warm up. It will warm up alot faster that way plus you will be going somewhere not just sitting there wasting fuel. There was some study about this like 5 years ago I think.
"Not all cars use pre-cats. Just depends on the position of the main cat. I moved my cat forward more and used header wrap and I guarantee it lights off a lot quicker than it used to!"
That should work to be a very good setup congratulations. Do you hear many other people moving their cats up?? They donâ??t because they donâ??t know the advantages. I was strictly saying that gutting the precats is not the best thing to do from an environmental standpoint. If the SVT people are passing the cold start emission test with gutted precats in Cali. with flying colors then I am wrong and you guys win. I am not sure this is the case though. And why turn a light polluter into an average one anyways? Especially for small HP gains??
Canada = little France
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Originally posted by armstrkw:
If the SVT people are passing the cold start emission test with gutted precats in Cali. with flying colors then I am wrong and you guys win. I am not sure this is the case though. And why turn a light polluter into an average one anyways? Especially for small HP gains??
There is no cold start test. It's a 15 and 25 mph test done warm. On my 97 SE I got 15ppm HC (Max of 40 allowed), .01% CO (Max of .49% allowed) and 7PPM NOx (Max of 730 allowed).
This beat the pants of my wifes T-LEV Neon :-)
97 Contour SE MTX
K&N 3530, UR UDP, 19# Injectors, mystery mod, FMS wires, Fordchip.com chip, SVT: TB, Flywheel, clutch, exhaust
04 Grand Caravan SXT
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Hey armstrkw, im 16 years old and drive an svt. Im going to live on this earth alot longer then u and put up with this polution, yet i could care less. Look at the facts. I promis u im going to gut my pretcats just to piss u off. I hate little tree huggin b*tches like u. So get out of this topic and F*UCK OFF!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Right, a gutted precat wouldn't even effect this test. It just the initial couple of mins
Canada = little France
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Look at the facts? I am guessing your little high school punk a$$ has looked into many things past what should I do today and should I use my right or left hand tonight?? I am just informing the general public about this not being the best solution for HP gains. With someone like you there is just no helping you, I seeing great burger flipping and French fry frying skills for you in the future. I am also ashamed to drive the same car as such an absolute no talent a$$ clown as yourself. If you have anything intelligent to say in response I would be very surprised!!!
Lets hear your facts I want them!!!
Canada = little France
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Look Armstrkw, i really do applaud your commitment to the enviornment, and i repect your opinion on the matter, but the fact of the matter is, your complaining to a bunch of car and HP lovers...your not going to get very far on here....and the madder you get the and the more insulting comments you make (that are non-provoked) the less people will listen to you. When you strat explaining yourself with facts instead of insults, then im sure most people will listen to you. But until then don;t expect many people to listen, and honestly your comments have been very harsssing twards many people. I reconmend moving to a diffrent website, or voice the matter to your local environmental agncy. Comming here do start an argument or disagreement. id not going to get you anywhere.
Roz
3.0 SVT hybrid...all the fixens...Track/Race ready very soon!!!!!! 20,000 + miles
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http://yosemite.epa.gov/oar/globalwarming.nsf/UniqueKeyLookup/SHSU5BUM9T/$File/ghg_gwp.pdfThis is a fair summation and remember that complete combustion results in carbon dioxide and without a cat you are putting out far worse. Itâ??s really hard to love power and the environment at the same time. That why I picked a fairly fuel efficient car. If I were a freak about it I would've gotten a civic hybrid and if I flat out didn't give a $hit I would've gone with a mustang GT or something similar as far as gas mileage goes like a truck. However, I think the contour SVT is a good balance for what I wanted. I am doing things to get more HP but removing the cats is not it. Thanks for your support, I am quite outnumbered this being more of a power redneck style kind of site.
Canada = little France
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just to pipe in...i would also like to gut my pre-cats unless someone is willing to give me their old ones that are in working order....and on a seperate subject....just because you have a college degree does not mean you are educated...
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Hey. Just to clarify the catalytic converter thing.
Under full throttle or even greater than part throttle your catalytic converter is not going to oxidize all of the unburnt fuel. In fact it oxidizes very little of the unburnt fuel that is pushed through under heavy load. The catalytic converter is destroyed in most cases by significant amounts of unburnt fuel and it works most efficiently at operating temperature with little to NO unburnt fuel in the exhaust!
Its primary purpose is to convert CO to CO2. The primary reducer of unburnt fuel (HC's) is the combustion chamber and the combustion chamber process! Correct timing, A/F ratio, combustion temp and chamber design are the greatest factors in reducing HC emissions, NOT the catalytic converter.
So in effect, driving your car with CATs at full throttle is probably 90% as problematic with pollution of HC's as a car without CATS.
CO is another issue and results from partial combustion of the fuel. That should be the big winner with cats, but again the combustion process today with electronic fuel control actually plays a bigger part in controlling HC, CO, adn NOx emmissions than any other factor.
Do I agreet that having a cat is cleaner? Yes. Is it significant? In many cases yes. However am I passing the state emissions test? Yes. With the main cat in standard location but gutted precats I passed emission the same day that I first fired up my 3L engine. Extremely low emissions too.
Why did I leave my cat in place? I too wanted to do my part and minimize pollution when I understand that my car is not adversely affected by having a catalytic converter. If you look in my post history you will see that I am a proponent of keeping cats in favor of the emissions gain since there isn't a significant loss of power.
However, I also know that there was no measureable difference in my tailpipe emissions between when I had 3 cats and now have 1 cat. So I'll take the 1 cat to save the weight and allow better performance from headers.
Its all a matter of "gray area" You should learn that there are really no absolutes in this world except death and taxes...and that you sometimes have to pick the lesser of two evils based upon your wants/needs. You did in your own way, but you see people like me as evil because 50 ppm HC's is acceptable to me rather than 25 ppm HC's or more is for you.
If the shoe doesn't fit then stop being so high and mighty and leave room for a little broader interpretation. I really don't think our views are that far apart.
warmonger
Former owner of '99 CSVT - Silver #222/2760
356/334 wHP/TQ at 10psi on pump gas!
See My Mods
'05 Volvo S40 Turbo 5 AWD with 6spd, Passion Red
'06 Mazda5 Touring, 5spd,MTX, Black
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Gentlemen, please, we've gotten a little off topic.
The reason I am thinking about gutting my precats is based solely on financial reasons. I got taken for $1400 cdn to replace the rear precat last summer, and I think it is clogged again. As I am presently out of work, I thought if I could do this instead, I could save myself a whole bunch of money.
My car is running terribly, spitting and stuttering at all rpm's, and once warmed up, does not generate much power. I will not perform this 'mod' till I do the UIM/LIM cleaning, which I will be starting this morning, being fairly certain that this is the root cause (taking lots of pics, btw).
As an aside, I'm am glad to see that the 'environmental' aspects of this type of work is on all of our minds. Yes, we should all be careful that we keep our air clean. I agree with the comments that so long as the main cat is in place, and operating, that this is being done.
As for zr500lc's comments, I don't appreciate them in my topic thread, and the language we can all do without. This is a very valuable forum to all of us, and while I appreciate all of the help I have received, I won't tolerate your flames toward the membership.
98 contour 2.5 GL
no mods, just trying to keep it running
till it's paid off.
Then the fun will begin.
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Originally posted by armstrkw:
If that makes me an Al Gore freak then I guess I am
Few points.....
1) Al Gore drives an SUV...
2) His "I am the environmentalist" platform lacked substance and was a substitute for any real plan to run the nation. But that is another story..
3) Global warming is felt by most experts to be part of a recurring (over milenia) cycle of climatary changes that has little to do with automobiles or cow farts.
4) And, despite the "global warming" fears..we are comming off one of the coldest winters globally that we have seen in decades. And the dry spell is broken with record rains. And, we are all still here...without Al Gore's help..
5) Is Al Gore even employed???
1999 Amazon Green SVT Contour (#554/2760)
"People demand freedom of speech as a compensation for the freedom of thought which they seldom use."
-Soren Kierkegaard (as posted by Jato)
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Crazy: (OK back on topic...)
I have not had any problems with gutted pre-cats and a high flow main cat for 45K + miles. If I went through the whole pre-cat problem scenario again, I would have gutted them earlier. (Before clogging up a 3rd main cat) I don't think it's cost effective to repair these out of warranty as you will not get the money back in resale value, lower cost operation, better reliability, or even better sleep. (Unless you ARE Al Gore. Oh no, can't go there again...) You will, however get a more gutsy duratec with one less cronic failure item to be concerned with.
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"Look at the facts? I am guessing your little high school punk a$$ has looked into many things past what should I do today and should I use my right or left hand tonight??" I am a punk what u gonna do b*tch and i dont need my left or right because unlike u i dont stay at home studying enviorment stuff. I have a class for it and we did a 2 week study on this so feel free to ask me some questions. If u want advice from a "little high school punk a$$" "With someone like you there is just no helping you, I seeing great burger flipping and French fry frying skills for you in the future." Their FREEDOM FRIES where have u been.  "I am also ashamed to drive the same car as such an absolute no talent a$$ clown as yourself." U want to get wasted on the strip or road course by an absolute no talent a$$ like me? Or how bout we go play some sports. Im all state in golf and all area in baseball. So looks like i wont be flippen burgers. "If you have anything intelligent to say in response I would be very surprised!!!" D*mn u must feel good about urself mouthin off to a junior in high school like that. Props to u. Congrats u used your "intelegence" to outwhit me. GOOD JOB. "Lets hear your facts I want them!!!" Here is one fact; I guarantee u were the biggest douch-bag in high school. P.S. Where do u live i think we might have to meet if your in the grand rapids area any time soon!
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whats the best way to go about this,im guttin mine tomarrow? 
98 SVT, silver frost, with blue graphics.
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Ok, you got it, a fight to the death. Wash your hands first though
Canada = little France
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Originally posted by DocSVT:
whats the best way to go about this,im guttin mine tomarrow?
Check the how-to link above, it's pretty thorough. Bnoon used to sell gutted and cleaned pre-cats with a core exchange for pretty reasonable. If you're gutting them on the car, beware of the risks and try to vacuum the sh!t out of the pre-cat shells often to minimize dust buildup.
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Originally posted by armstrkw:
Look at the facts? I am guessing your little high school punk a$$ has looked into many things past what should I do today and should I use my right or left hand tonight?? I am just informing the general public about this not being the best solution for HP gains. With someone like you there is just no helping you, I seeing great burger flipping and French fry frying skills for you in the future. I am also ashamed to drive the same car as such an absolute no talent a$$ clown as yourself. If you have anything intelligent to say in response I would be very surprised!!!
Lets hear your facts I want them!!!
Hey buddy I'm 17 and I am a senior in Highschool, quite frankly thats offensive the type of stereotypical crap you just said. AND for your information I work in the federal government and I DONT flip burgers.
Jason
00 Audi S4, 2.7 Bi-turbo quattro
01 S10 Xtreme, 4.3l
98' Contour SE with some mods
96 Cavalier (beater)
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Originally posted by CrazyCanuck:
As for zr500lc's comments, I don't appreciate them in my topic thread, and the language we can all do without. This is a very valuable forum to all of us, and while I appreciate all of the help I have received, I won't tolerate your flames toward the membership.
CrazyCunuck i do apologize for the way i wrote my message. It really makes me look like a fool but i must say that i am not sorry for sticking up for the message i was trying to get across. I will stop with all of this if this guy opens his eyes and realizes that there might be a high school kid that doesnt flip burgers and actually has a life ahead of him or her. But i do apologize for my message because the language was uncalled for. I do feel bad because that just makes me look like im a bad kid or something. 
I just got a pm and it was real funny and it just made me laugh.
From: armstrkw
Nice dude, last time a golf player kicked my ass was hummmm. Get your punk ass off of here and go fry me some freedom fries.
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Canada = little France
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