|
|
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 3,506
Hard-core CEG'er
|
OP
Hard-core CEG'er
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 3,506 |
Hey Guys, Happy holidays. I hope everyone is safe out there.
I was over hearing a conversation of a few mechanics and some of them said that they wouldn't reconmend Sythetic Oil over Regular. Now I love my Mobile one in my car, but is running sythetic bad?? I can't believe that but the question is running through my mind because thats what one of the mechanic said. I know mixing sythetic and reg. is bad but I find it hard to believe Pure sytheic is bad for you car...and yes I over heard the entire conversation of the mechanics so I didn;t leave anything out.
Can anyone shed a little light?
Roz
3.0 SVT hybrid...all the fixens...Track/Race ready very soon!!!!!! 20,000 + miles
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 930
Veteran CEG\'er
|
|
Veteran CEG\'er
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 930 |
Pros: Mobil 1 SuperSYN is an awesome oil.
Cons: Can someone help me out here, please?
2000 Contour SVT
17" Focus SVT wheels
Intrax suspension
#1694
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 102
CEG\'er
|
|
CEG\'er
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 102 |
Mike
1999 Tropic Green SE Sport Duratec MTX
No major mods, just the aesthetic kind. 
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 89
CEG\'er
|
|
CEG\'er
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 89 |
It can cause leaks in high-mileage engines
1998 SVT EO
Silver/Midnight Blue 109k
Best E/T to date: 15.670 @ 89.10
K&N
Blaupunkt 10 disc CD
'99 SVT wheels
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 3,506
Hard-core CEG'er
|
|
OP
Hard-core CEG'er
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 3,506 |
Originally posted by FastFordFreak:
It can cause leaks in high-mileage engines
I have 82 thousand on my car....what oil would you reconmend so i can prevent leaks but still get the great sythetic quality?? Roz
3.0 SVT hybrid...all the fixens...Track/Race ready very soon!!!!!! 20,000 + miles
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 63
CEG\'er
|
|
CEG\'er
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 63 |
Should be fine with Mobil-1 5W-30
2003 Mustang GT 5-Speed, FMS 4.10 gears, Dr. Gas O/R X-pipe, Flowmaster cat-back, BBK CAI, C&L intake plenum, Accufab 75mm TB, Steeda Timing Adjuster - 13.70@102.23
(SOLD) 2000 Cougar V6 ATX with many mods - 15.93@86.97
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 1,977
Hard-core CEG'er
|
|
Hard-core CEG'er
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 1,977 |
Originally posted by FastFordFreak:
It can cause leaks in high-mileage engines
WRONG! Synthetic oil is NOT the cause of oil leak. It's because of other problem like the gaskets are already getting brittle, and the more refined synthetic oil can seep through the cracks. The only bad thing about synthetic oil is cost.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 3,732
Hard-core CEG'er
|
|
Hard-core CEG'er
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 3,732 |
switched at 75k from dino oil to mobile 1. about 1500 miles alter, no leaks yet (knock on wood)
Russell
Oval Port 3L Nearly Done
MTX75 w/ Homebrew Zetec FD and Torsen Complete
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 4,693
Hard-core CEG'er
|
|
Hard-core CEG'er
Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 4,693 |
Mobil 1 did have problems that caused gaskets and seals to shrink, especially if conventional oil had been in use for a long time. That problem was deminished when they upgraded to "try-synthetic" and became even less prone to the problem with the latest change.
The claim of the synthetic blends (not full synthetic) is that they give you most of the advantages of synthetic without the concern of increased oil consumption or leaks. These blends were made with high milage engines in mind, or so they claim.
My personal opinion is that synthetic truly is superior, but is also overkill. The performance of today's dino oil is very closely aproaching the performance level of synthetic oil.
I use Mobil 5W30 dino oil and I change it every 3,000 miles. As much as I drive, that turns out to be about every 5 weeks.
My $.02
Jim Johnson
98 SVT
03 Escape Limited
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 644
Veteran CEG\'er
|
|
Veteran CEG\'er
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 644 |
My brother-in-law (a mechanic) gave me sh!t for running synthetic in my cars, stating that it wasn't needed for street vehicles, only race engines. He said the cost wasn't worth it.
This just solidified my stance as to the benefits of synthetic fluids, because if it's good enough for a race engine, it certainly won't hurt my street motor, and extra cost bedamned! It's cheap peace of mind!
1999 Red / Tan SVT
#1969 of 2760
Built 4/21/99
K&N, DMD, FMS Wires, ES Insert / Bushings, PF End Links
17" FSVT 5-Spokes
Factory Spoiler
35% Tint All Around
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 1,660
Hard-core CEG\'er
|
|
Hard-core CEG\'er
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 1,660 |
Originally posted by FastFordFreak:
It can cause leaks in high-mileage engines
Switched at 106k when I got my CSVT and no leaks at all... As others have said, it doesn't cause leaks, it finds problems that conventional oils can't leak out of (yet). Pros: better protection from wear, especially at cold startup Cons: more expensive, can be offset by using a longer change interval as I do I've run it on my cars since I got my first good car (Miata) and will continue to run it on my good cars that are keepers. The Wife's leased Honduh minivan gets the cheapest oil I can find, since the motor it only has to last 48,001 miles. Scott
Troll! '99 BMW 328i
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 63
CEG\'er
|
|
CEG\'er
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 63 |
a few corrections
The leaks are indeed from older gaskets where dino oil would plug the microscopic holes becuase the molecule sizes vary... some bigger some smaller.
Synthetic oil has smaller uniform molecule sizes and tends to seep thru older gaskets... it doesn't cause the leaks, just exposes them.
As to getting crap for running Mobil1 or any other synthetic oil... just ignore them.
Yeah it may be overkill for highway driving... but in town driving and in extreme heat/cold it is the best thing going.
Besides you can leave it in for 10K + miles. BMW did a study where they tried all sorts of different driving and testing of the oil.
With Mobil1 the lowest milage they changed was 100% short trips, lots of cold starts... it was 8K miles. The highest was 18K miles, mostly highway and few cold starts.
Other independant studies show that longer drain intervals are a truth and that you can recoop any extra cost by simply extending your drain interval.. heck you could just change your filter every 3K miles if you want the peace of mind.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 496
CEG\'er
|
|
CEG\'er
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 496 |
I agree with Big Jim on conventional oil. The cost alone, plus changing @ 3000 miles, the oil never gets close to the black color(I know the oil is doing its job, hense it gets dark, keeping the engine clean) that the synthetic oil would be at ,say 5,000 miles, keeps the engine cleaner. On my sisters BMW, a 2000 model, normal oil change interval is 15,000 miles. At 15,000 the oil is "BLACK" and feels thicker than the 5-30 it started its life at. I have since started to change it @ 7,500 miles, since she is planning to hold on to the car. Another reason I wouldn't want to buy a car off a lease.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 89
CEG\'er
|
|
CEG\'er
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 89 |
I used a synthetic blend in my car, because of cost. A synthetic blend will offer you 75% of the benefits of full synthetic, at half the price or less. And it doesn't "expose the leaks" so much as does full synthetic, or however you want to word it. If I raced my car I would probably run full synthetic in it, or if it was brand new I would, but my engine has 99k miles on it so I just use the blend.
1998 SVT EO
Silver/Midnight Blue 109k
Best E/T to date: 15.670 @ 89.10
K&N
Blaupunkt 10 disc CD
'99 SVT wheels
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 9,602
Hard-core CEG'er
|
|
Hard-core CEG'er
Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 9,602 |
Originally posted by FastFordFreak:
1. I used a synthetic blend in my car, because of cost.
2. A synthetic blend will offer you 75% of the benefits of full synthetic, at half the price or less.
3. And it doesn't "expose the leaks" so much as does full synthetic, or however you want to word it.
1. Sorry to hear that. It's not worth the money like a full synthetic is!
2. BS! A blend is maybe 10-15% synthetic whichs makes the other ~85% subject to the typical thermal breakdown, ashing, other normal degeneration a crude oil is known for. In other words a blend is no better than a good quality dino oil since the majority of the oil breaks down & protects like one anyway!
3. That is true since it's basically a glorified dino oil you pay twice the money for.
Your best bet is a full synthetic (Mobil 1, Royal Purple, AMSOil - but NEVER Syntec!) or a quality dino. Definitely skip the blends if you want to save a buck by not running a full synthetic.
2000 SVT #674
13.47 @ 102 - All Motor!
It was not broke; Yet I fixed it anyway.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 1,977
Hard-core CEG'er
|
|
Hard-core CEG'er
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 1,977 |
Originally posted by eepals:
I agree with Big Jim on conventional oil. The cost alone, plus changing @ 3000 miles, the oil never gets close to the black color(I know the oil is doing its job, hense it gets dark, keeping the engine clean) that the synthetic oil would be at ,say 5,000 miles, keeps the engine cleaner. On my sisters BMW, a 2000 model, normal oil change interval is 15,000 miles. At 15,000 the oil is "BLACK" and feels thicker than the 5-30 it started its life at. I have since started to change it @ 7,500 miles, since she is planning to hold on to the car. Another reason I wouldn't want to buy a car off a lease.
You can not tell the oil condition by looking at the color of oil. Oil is supposed to turn darker and darker when subjected to repeated heating. When I ran Mobil 1 in the old engine, I change it at the shortest 5k mi or 5 months. I'm running dino oil in my new engine for break-in right now. But as soon as I hit the next oil change, I'm going back to my Mobil 1 routine with 5k mi or 5 months oil change. Only thing I'm going to change is to use Motorcraft oil filter instead of using K&N oil filter.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 35
New CEG\'er
|
|
New CEG\'er
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 35 |
Muscle Mustangs and Fast Fords reported a 6 horsepower gain in a 5 liter mustang from merely switching to Mobil One synthetic oil.
that makes it worth the extra to me.
Matt
'99 SVT Contour
---------------
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 1,977
Hard-core CEG'er
|
|
Hard-core CEG'er
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 1,977 |
That's a mere 6HP, and consider the standard error on dyno it can probably turn out to be no gain. I'm not running synthetic because of the possible gain, but rather for better protection of the engine.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 460
CEG\'er
|
|
CEG\'er
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 460 |
Originally posted by rozwell911:
Hey Guys, Happy holidays. I hope everyone is safe out there.
I was over hearing a conversation of a few mechanics and some of them said that they wouldn't reconmend Sythetic Oil over Regular. Now I love my Mobile one in my car, but is running sythetic bad?? I can't believe that but the question is running through my mind because thats what one of the mechanic said. I know mixing sythetic and reg. is bad but I find it hard to believe Pure sytheic is bad for you car...and yes I over heard the entire conversation of the mechanics so I didn;t leave anything out.
Can anyone shed a little light?
Roz
I'd run what the manufacturer suggests. Some manufacturers (Lotus, GM for Corvette, etc.) use Mobil 1. Ford now uses some sort of synthetic blend I believe when you go to get your oil changed at the dealership. Everyone is going to have their preference, mostly guided by what someone else says or does. When I was a kid a million years ago, I'd run nothing but Valvoline Racing Oil in my Cuda. Why? Because some racing team did. Did it make my car faster or protect the engine better? Probably no to both answers (it was street driven). And that was dino oil. And I've had all my car's engines (except the Contour's) apart for reasons ranging from total rebuilds to just changing valve cover gaskets (Ranger) and their engines have been as clean as the proverbial babies behind. All of them. The Ranger has over 350K miles on it and it's never faltered once in any area that oil would make a difference. A regular oil/filter change mantra is the best insurance you can provide. By the way, you didn't state why these guys said that synthetic was bad so something was left out. At any rate, run it if you want but as a number of posters have said, it's probably overkill. Personally, and even though our cars are fast approaching end of warranty (if not already out of warranty) being guided by what the manufacturer suggests is better insurance as far as I'm concerned if for only one reason: If your engine failed while under warranty and it was regularly serviced at a dealer, you'd likely suffer less of a hassle getting it replaced than if you DIY'd it with some other type oil. It's got to count for something. Just my .02 cents.  Karl
*** It's all about consistency! ***
*** Previously 88SVT ***
06 F150 Supercrew 5.4L FX4
98 SVT Contour #4362 Born 1/6/1998
86 Ranger GT (For Sale)
69 Fiat 850 Sport Spider (For Sale)
67 Formula-S Barracuda
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 21,653
I have no life
|
|
I have no life
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 21,653 |
typical mobil1 change doesn't cost more than a quick lube change. (always better and cheaper to do yourself). i noticed a good difference over dino, idles smoother, stays clean longer. there is also a possible power gain and it's better at withstanding heat than dino (important in a hot zetec). mechanics are used to the old school thought of dino being better, but it's an outdated idea. my dad's a mechanic and told me it's not worth it, but hopefully i can convince him to switch once he rebuilds the upper part of his v6 Ram. do a search on yahoo for synthetic oil myths, you'll find some good info.
98.5 SVT
91 Escort GT (almost sold)
96 ATX Zetec (i brake to watch you swerve)
FS: SVT rear sway bar
WTB: Very cheap beater
CEG Dragon Run - October 13-15
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 3,632
Hard-core CEG'er
|
|
Hard-core CEG'er
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 3,632 |
I am pretty sure that my engine runs a bit cooler since I switched to Mobil 1. Ford now recommends 5W-20 for my car. You can check it out on www.motorcraft.com There are not many choices for 5W-20. I will stick with Mobil 1 5W-30 for now. I also use either Mobil 1 or K&N oil filters. Motorcraft seems good to. Not FRAM though!
"Cobb - It's not just for corn anymore!"
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 3,867
Hard-core CEG'er
|
|
Hard-core CEG'er
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 3,867 |
Originally posted by AirKnight:
That's a mere 6HP, and consider the standard error on dyno it can probably turn out to be no gain. I'm not running synthetic because of the possible gain, but rather for better protection of the engine.
First of all, anyone who says "a mere 6hp" just doesn't get it. Secondly, the body of tests out there that show consistent, repeatable gains is considerably large, and I would say, significant. It's not always 6 hp, since it really depends on the engine, and of course the best gains come when the whole drivetrain is converted. But, geez. Somebody said synth is "overkill." I suppose that's true for some, and dino is fine for most drivers. But I'm a devoted convert.
Function before fashion.
'96 Contour SE
"Toss the Contour into a corner, and it's as easy to catch as a softball thrown by a preschooler." -Edmunds, 1998
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 21,653
I have no life
|
|
I have no life
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 21,653 |
many of the people on here are trying to get every bit of performance out of their cars as they can (w/o turning them into full drag cars). i'm sure completely switching to synthetic will give you some gains, but on an engine with less than 200hp, it's not gonna show much, but still worth it.
98.5 SVT
91 Escort GT (almost sold)
96 ATX Zetec (i brake to watch you swerve)
FS: SVT rear sway bar
WTB: Very cheap beater
CEG Dragon Run - October 13-15
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 3,506
Hard-core CEG'er
|
|
OP
Hard-core CEG'er
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 3,506 |
I think I'll just strap a huge turbine engine to my car and "blow" the compition away...lol Or blow my self up on the process. 
3.0 SVT hybrid...all the fixens...Track/Race ready very soon!!!!!! 20,000 + miles
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 1,977
Hard-core CEG'er
|
|
Hard-core CEG'er
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 1,977 |
Originally posted by RogerB:
First of all, anyone who says "a mere 6hp" just doesn't get it.
Secondly, the body of tests out there that show consistent, repeatable gains is considerably large, and I would say, significant. It's not always 6 hp, since it really depends on the engine, and of course the best gains come when the whole drivetrain is converted. But, geez.
Somebody said synth is "overkill." I suppose that's true for some, and dino is fine for most drivers. But I'm a devoted convert.
Then maybe you should run some 0-20 oil (if that exist), I mean it's going to be a lot thinner and you'll have less power loss to friction by the oil. Why not? And show me consistant result from dyno runs with absolutely nothing changes other than switching from dino to full synthetic oil, under the same temperature/humidity/time of day/facility.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: May 2000
Posts: 2,127
Hard-core CEG'er
|
|
Hard-core CEG'er
Joined: May 2000
Posts: 2,127 |
Originally posted by delmar:
My brother-in-law (a mechanic) gave me sh!t for running synthetic in my cars, stating that it wasn't needed for street vehicles, only race engines. He said the cost wasn't worth it.
This just solidified my stance as to the benefits of synthetic fluids, because if it's good enough for a race engine, it certainly won't hurt my street motor, and extra cost bedamned! It's cheap peace of mind!
Maybe this has already been addressed, but let me point out some flaws in your logic. (Not a personal attack, mind you, so don't take this personally. After all, isn't this what many advertisers tell us about their automotive products? So I don't blame you.)
Professional racers build their engines for one purpose, the maximum power output over a very short lifespan. A NASCAR or INDY engine only needs to hold together for 500 miles.
In the case of engine oils, many race oils (I'm talking about those boutique race oils and not Mobil1 right now) don't have the additives that fight acids and other bad things that are produced in street driven, smog controlled engines. The race oil is used for 500 miles and drained, along with any acids, fuel washdown or other "things" that find their way into the crankcase.
With any high quality motor oil, designed for street use, there will be an additive package that is designed to mitigate or eliminate these harmful things that find their way into your oil.
So you get less power, but you can drive 5K miles between oil changes and your engine will last well beyond 100K miles.
So just because something is good enough for the professional race team, it doesn't logically follow that it is good enough for your street car. Two very different usage patterns. Well, unless you are going to change your oil every 500 miles.
I hope this is helpful.
BTW, Mobil 1 is better at operating extremes than most conventional oils. However, many of the new API SL rated oils approach some "synthetics" in operating characteristics. So I'd not worry too much if I used an SL rated conventional oil.
TB
"Seems like our society is more interested in turning each successive generation into cookie-cutter wankers than anything else." -- Jato 8/24/2004
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 21,653
I have no life
|
|
I have no life
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 21,653 |
Originally posted by AirKnight:
Then maybe you should run some 0-20 oil (if that exist), I mean it's going to be a lot thinner and you'll have less power loss to friction by the oil. Why not?
because engine not last for long with 0-20w in it.
98.5 SVT
91 Escort GT (almost sold)
96 ATX Zetec (i brake to watch you swerve)
FS: SVT rear sway bar
WTB: Very cheap beater
CEG Dragon Run - October 13-15
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 1,977
Hard-core CEG'er
|
|
Hard-core CEG'er
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 1,977 |
Originally posted by Kremithefrog:
because engine not last for long with 0-20w in it.
That is EXACTLY my point.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 21,653
I have no life
|
|
I have no life
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 21,653 |
Originally posted by AirKnight:
Originally posted by Kremithefrog:
because engine not last for long with 0-20w in it.
That is EXACTLY my point.
but engine will last with synthetic, i think i know your point (oil doesn't give true gains ((though it may give a little))),but how long it lasts isn't your point. or was it?  since synthetic last longer than dino, good enough reason to use it, and withstands heat better, gave me a better idle,,, any performance gains are just an added bonus to spending $25 to change your oil (i'm guessing a bit more for duratec owners).
98.5 SVT
91 Escort GT (almost sold)
96 ATX Zetec (i brake to watch you swerve)
FS: SVT rear sway bar
WTB: Very cheap beater
CEG Dragon Run - October 13-15
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 1,977
Hard-core CEG'er
|
|
Hard-core CEG'er
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 1,977 |
I run synthetic oil myself. But my point is, don't run it because of the possible gain. The gain just isn't much. I have yet to see really consistant dyno graph with the only changes done are using dino oil and synthetic oil (meaning, the same day, same dyno facility, same condition, same everything else).
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 21,653
I have no life
|
|
I have no life
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 21,653 |
ok, that's what i thought, and i agree, and with my 130hp, i'm sure the gain couldn't even be noticeable (i know i didn't notice more power,just better idle, when i switched).
98.5 SVT
91 Escort GT (almost sold)
96 ATX Zetec (i brake to watch you swerve)
FS: SVT rear sway bar
WTB: Very cheap beater
CEG Dragon Run - October 13-15
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 253
CEG\'er
|
|
CEG\'er
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 253 |
Originally posted by MotorCity:
I also use either Mobil 1 or K&N oil filters. Motorcraft seems good to. Not FRAM though!
Why not Fram??
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 3,718
Hard-core CEG'er
|
|
Hard-core CEG'er
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 3,718 |
Goes back to an independent study done on oil filters (flow bench, burst pressures, filtration, etc.). The thread with the link is floating around here, so use search and see if you can find it. Fram filters are akin to putting a brick in your oil system. They allegedly filter VERY poorly and end up starving the engine of oil...
...which is the LAST thing the Duratec needs.
JaTo
e-Tough Guy
Missouri City, TX
99 Contour SVT
#143/2760
00 Corvette Coupe
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 3,627
Hard-core CEG'er
|
|
Hard-core CEG'er
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 3,627 |
I use Wix I think they are one of the best out there if you ask me.
Trollin the boards as of 9/23
Originally posted by GS474:
stock hp is never enough
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 1,977
Hard-core CEG'er
|
|
Hard-core CEG'er
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 1,977 |
K&N and Mobil 1 are the only two "best" oil filters out there. I'm running Motorcraft filters right now because it's $3 or cheaper a filter. I might go back to K&N the next oil change.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 21,653
I have no life
|
|
I have no life
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 21,653 |
i'll probably go to k&n or mobil (prefer mobil if i can find it), my motorcraft filter for the zetec is longer than the other cheaper filters, kinda says something, more filtering room or something. (i hear fram has cardboard or newspaper as filtering element or something like that)
98.5 SVT
91 Escort GT (almost sold)
96 ATX Zetec (i brake to watch you swerve)
FS: SVT rear sway bar
WTB: Very cheap beater
CEG Dragon Run - October 13-15
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 3,867
Hard-core CEG'er
|
|
Hard-core CEG'er
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 3,867 |
Originally posted by AirKnight:
Originally posted by RogerB:
First of all, anyone who says "a mere 6hp" just doesn't get it.
Secondly, the body of tests out there that show consistent, repeatable gains is considerably large, and I would say, significant. It's not always 6 hp, since it really depends on the engine, and of course the best gains come when the whole drivetrain is converted. But, geez.
Somebody said synth is "overkill." I suppose that's true for some, and dino is fine for most drivers. But I'm a devoted convert.
Then maybe you should run some 0-20 oil (if that exist), I mean it's going to be a lot thinner and you'll have less power loss to friction by the oil. Why not? And show me consistant result from dyno runs with absolutely nothing changes other than switching from dino to full synthetic oil, under the same temperature/humidity/time of day/facility.
Lot's of people getting them. GRM, BMW race teams, Saturn race teams, "Horsepower TV," MM&FF. If you've yet to see consistent results, you're not looking.
0-20? Gee, is that weight spec'd for our engine? I'm not suggesting anyone do something detrimental to engine life just to get a few hp. These are street cars.
Function before fashion.
'96 Contour SE
"Toss the Contour into a corner, and it's as easy to catch as a softball thrown by a preschooler." -Edmunds, 1998
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 126
CEG\'er
|
|
CEG\'er
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 126 |
I would agree with Big Jim, as I have been using Mobil 1 since 1975, w/o any issues. Alot of this was in 4 cylinder Opels and VW's. Never any oil related problems.
Overkill; yes. I had a problem for the longest time moving from the 3k change intervals (oil & filter) to 5k. This is still too frequent for my type of driving (75 miles daily, freeway).
What's up with the "every 5 weeks" Jim? I was swayed by synthetic and it's extended change intervals, in part.
later - Bill
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 4,693
Hard-core CEG'er
|
|
Hard-core CEG'er
Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 4,693 |
I change oil every 3,000 miles. I drive 120 miles round trip for work each day. It usually only takes 5 weeks to get to 3,000 miles.
Jim Johnson
98 SVT
03 Escape Limited
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 97
CEG\'er
|
|
CEG\'er
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 97 |
Ford Technician here, I really believe in Mobil 1 synthetics. I have used it in my tour from when i bought it at 28,000 miles till now i have 42,500 miles. pros- longer engine life, decreased wear,less repairs, runs smoother, cooler, and feels more powerful. All due to synthetic oil being perfectlly clean, (doesn't have to be refined)resulting in less deposits in the engine.Added lubrication due to syn. additives. cons-none in my view except price($4.25 a qt.) and still have to change every 3,000 miles, people always think they can run syn. oil longer intervals Not True!!!every 3,000 miles or 3 months! 
1998 Contour V6 se ATX Black
Bassanni w/o resinators, modified intake box, DMD
New headlights w/ silverstar 9005's, blue neons inside, metal waterpump, pioneer head, pioneer 5x7
3 ways,2 10" subs, 800w amp, 17x7.5 motegi mr12 p215/45/17
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: May 2000
Posts: 1,359
Webmaster
|
|
Webmaster
Joined: May 2000
Posts: 1,359 |
Originally posted by Black98SEatx:
Ford Technician here,
I really believe in Mobil 1 synthetics. I have used it in my tour from when i bought it at 28,000 miles till now i have 42,500 miles.
pros- longer engine life, decreased wear,less repairs,
runs smoother, cooler, and feels more powerful.
All due to synthetic oil being perfectlly clean,
(doesn't have to be refined)resulting in less deposits
in the engine.Added lubrication due to syn. additives.
cons-none in my view except price($4.25 a qt.)
and still have to change every 3,000 miles, people
always think they can run syn. oil longer intervals
Not True!!!every 3,000 miles or 3 months!
Well, I have my oil analyzed, and they tell me that my oil which had 5500 miles on it could have gone longer...
-Lance
Lance Kinley
CEG Webmaster
95 SE, "Cassandra"
10 years!
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 3,867
Hard-core CEG'er
|
|
Hard-core CEG'er
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 3,867 |
Quote:
Not True!!!every 3,000 miles or 3 months!
Spoken like a "loyal to the profession" tech...
Function before fashion.
'96 Contour SE
"Toss the Contour into a corner, and it's as easy to catch as a softball thrown by a preschooler." -Edmunds, 1998
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: May 2000
Posts: 9,196
Hard-core CEG'er
|
|
Hard-core CEG'er
Joined: May 2000
Posts: 9,196 |
Without reading all the other post or asking you for specifics I know what the cons were. If your motor didn't have it from day one or right after it was broke in you would get leaks right? I've heard this a MILLION times, BS I tell you. Before I had the CSVT I had a 93 Park Avenue Ultra that I bought w/ 84K and switched to Mobil 1 right away...no leaks! Before that I had an 89 LeSabre T type that I bought w/80K and ran Mobil 1...no leaks again! Also during the time of owning those 2 Buicks I had a toy, which was also a Buick...1987 GN which I ran Mobil 1 in and that car had 87K on it when I first got it. The only leak that car had was a rear main seal and if you know anything about 3.8 SFI Turbo motors they ALL leaked, especially when you run between 18-22 psi of boost through them  In closing I say run the Mobil 1, in your weight (unless its real cold where you live, then run the 0w30 in the winter monthes) and be done with it. Oh yeah, don't forget the Mobil 1 synthetic oil filter too
"THEE" Roger R
USMondeo@aol.com
2005 Crossfire Limited coupe'
-FOR SALE @buyout price & I'll...
-throw in my 93' Regal as winter car
*Dragon Run 06'...Oct 12-15th*
Puur-fection Auto Detailing
Complete packages from $140.00
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 37
New CEG\'er
|
|
New CEG\'er
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 37 |
Mobil 1 is formulated for 'normal' oil changes...hence the reason it's a 'Wal-Mart' brand  . Upscale synthetics are formulated to last much longer, and even give you a warranty. I've had analysis done on my oil after 25k, and it still has life left  .
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 4,789
I feel Guilty, Oh so guilty
|
|
I feel Guilty, Oh so guilty
Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 4,789 |
Originally posted by RogerB:
Quote:
Not True!!!every 3,000 miles or 3 months!
Spoken like a "loyal to the profession" tech...
Yep...from 1955. My wife recently got her oil changed and was scolded for going 5k miles on an oil change (conventional oil).
The conversation went like this....
Undereducated brainwashed tech: Do you realize that you went 5000 MILES on an oil change?
Christie: Yes. I decided to bring it in early.
Undereducated brainwashed tech: Do you realize how dangerous that is? Do you not care about your car?
Christie: My dad told me it would be fine. He knows best.
Undereducated brainwashed tech: Your father is wrong. I work in the oil industry and I know what I am talking about.
Christie: My dad is the chairman of ILSAC, co-chairman of a few subcommittees of API, and Manager for GM fuel and lubrications department.
Undereducated brainwashed tech: What's ILSAC?
Christie: Just change my oil.
The moral of the story is that Synthetics are obviously better oils than conventional (this is not even debatable), but if there was even ONE person on here that has any need to run synthetics in their contour, I would literally be stunned (yes, even you Demon). They do last longer, so a bit more money could be justified, but not as much as they charge. If mobile 1 could be found for 2.00 a quart on sale, I would use it. But, I have never found it for that cheap, so I will continue to use the cheapest API certified oil, and never, no matter how hard I drive, have any issues just using conventional.
"If you are flammable and have legs, you are never blocking a fire exit"
-Mitch Hedberg
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: May 2000
Posts: 1,228
Hard-core CEG\'er
|
|
Hard-core CEG\'er
Joined: May 2000
Posts: 1,228 |
why in the world would an oil mogul let her daughter take her car to get the oil changed at some "tech garage"? take it to the laboratory! 
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 4,639
Hard-core CEG'er
|
|
Hard-core CEG'er
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 4,639 |
then i guess i wont say what i pay for amsoil series 2000
Hugo AIM:omegazodiac
95 gl & 99 contour svt #1750/2760
my profile pics stuff for sale
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 1,977
Hard-core CEG'er
|
|
Hard-core CEG'er
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 1,977 |
Originally posted by Thuundar80530:
Mobil 1 is formulated for 'normal' oil changes...hence the reason it's a 'Wal-Mart' brand . Upscale synthetics are formulated to last much longer, and even give you a warranty. I've had analysis done on my oil after 25k, and it still has life left .
What are you talking about??? What "Wal-Mart Brand"????????????? Geez!
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 126
CEG\'er
|
|
CEG\'er
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 126 |
Big Jim, I was just curious why you felt the need to use the 3k change interval?
Reading all these posts, it is clear that everyone holds near and dear their own beliefs regarding oil, as I do also.
Mine is over 30 years years worth of driving as well as racing (SCCA Showroom Stock Sedan).
I have had my oil analysized for the past 30 years as well.
Just using the facts as they are presented to me.
Bill
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 4,693
Hard-core CEG'er
|
|
Hard-core CEG'er
Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 4,693 |
I just like keeping the engine clean. My experience is that longer oil change intervals are more likely to lead to sludged up engines. Perhaps it is a little old fashioned, but I remember tearing down too many engines that had huge amounts of sludge. Even today's engines with today's oils are not immune. Look at the problems that Toyota has been having. I believe in agressive maintenance.
Jim Johnson
98 SVT
03 Escape Limited
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 21,653
I have no life
|
|
I have no life
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 21,653 |
Originally posted by dnewma04:
better oils than conventional (this is not even debatable), but if there was even ONE person on here that has any need to run synthetics in their contour, I would literally be stunned (yes, even you Demon). They do last longer, so a bit more money could be justified, but not as much as they charge. If mobile 1 could be found for 2.00 a quart on sale, I would use it. But, I have never found it for that cheap, so I will continue to use the cheapest API certified oil, and never, no matter how hard I drive, have any issues just using conventional.
i may have no "reason", but that means you don't think a smoother idle, longer lasting engine is a reason. when i switched, i noticed the smoother idle (heck, i even noticed when i did my second mobil1 change, (first one gets dirtier than normal) even over my belt squeaking, i could hear and feel the smoother idle) my atx feels a bit better after putting in mobil1 atf. i trust mobil1 products. i feel the difference and know they're good for my car. i think they're well worth the cost. (cheapest i got mobil1 5w-30 $3.75 per qt., though can't find it that cheap anymore). once you go synthetic, you'll never go back. 
98.5 SVT
91 Escort GT (almost sold)
96 ATX Zetec (i brake to watch you swerve)
FS: SVT rear sway bar
WTB: Very cheap beater
CEG Dragon Run - October 13-15
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 126
CEG\'er
|
|
CEG\'er
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 126 |
Fair enough, I can respect your comments on this topic. Thank you for the civilized response. -- Bill
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 4,789
I feel Guilty, Oh so guilty
|
|
I feel Guilty, Oh so guilty
Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 4,789 |
Quote:
but that means you don't think a smoother idle, longer lasting engine is a reason.
Assuming proper oil changes, the increase in engine life between Syns and Dinos are practically undetectable. Some of the results I have seen are so similar that no clear advantage can be given to either.
As far as the smooth idle goes, I suppose if you can justify spending 2x as much to get a smoother idling engine that lasts the same amount of time, so be it.
How many people keep their cars past 100k anyway?
"If you are flammable and have legs, you are never blocking a fire exit"
-Mitch Hedberg
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 568
Veteran CEG\'er
|
|
Veteran CEG\'er
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 568 |
Originally posted by dnewma04:
How many people keep their cars past 100k anyway?
*raises hand*
B. Riley
Melbourne, FL
'01 Camry LE V6/5-spd
Was: '00 Black/Tan SVT Contour #560 - Sold 3/26/03
Before that: '95 Champ/Blue Contour GL V6 ATX
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 4,789
I feel Guilty, Oh so guilty
|
|
I feel Guilty, Oh so guilty
Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 4,789 |
Originally posted by Blk560:
Originally posted by dnewma04:
How many people keep their cars past 100k anyway?
*raises hand*
I know there are some. I was just insinuating that there aren't many.
I have 115k mile on my truck and most of my cars have gone well over 150k.
"If you are flammable and have legs, you are never blocking a fire exit"
-Mitch Hedberg
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 3,867
Hard-core CEG'er
|
|
Hard-core CEG'er
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 3,867 |
Originally posted by Blk560:
Originally posted by dnewma04:
How many people keep their cars past 100k anyway?
*raises hand*
I will, I will!!
Function before fashion.
'96 Contour SE
"Toss the Contour into a corner, and it's as easy to catch as a softball thrown by a preschooler." -Edmunds, 1998
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 3,506
Hard-core CEG'er
|
|
OP
Hard-core CEG'er
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 3,506 |
WOW...I did't know that me asking one simple(thought was simple)question would amount to a full novel.
Thanks eveyone for your imput.
Take Care
Roz
3.0 SVT hybrid...all the fixens...Track/Race ready very soon!!!!!! 20,000 + miles
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 3,732
Hard-core CEG'er
|
|
Hard-core CEG'er
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 3,732 |
im running mobile 1 (for my 1st time) on a motorcraft oil filter. i ran some cheapo synthetic for lile 1500 miles before i changed to mobile 1. will i be fine going 5000 mikes before a change? (duratec)
Russell
Oval Port 3L Nearly Done
MTX75 w/ Homebrew Zetec FD and Torsen Complete
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 4,789
I feel Guilty, Oh so guilty
|
|
I feel Guilty, Oh so guilty
Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 4,789 |
Originally posted by PoopStainz:
im running mobile 1 (for my 1st time) on a motorcraft oil filter. i ran some cheapo synthetic for lile 1500 miles before i changed to mobile 1. will i be fine going 5000 mikes before a change? (duratec)
Absolutely. 5000k on dino oil would be fine, so synthetics should cause no problems.
"If you are flammable and have legs, you are never blocking a fire exit"
-Mitch Hedberg
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 37
New CEG\'er
|
|
New CEG\'er
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 37 |
That would be the case if there weren't such things as temperature extremes. Ever see dino oil at -20F? You may as well not have any oil in your engine at all. You can't honestly say that doesn't affect the wear on your engine. Synthetics (and some blends) will flow very well at -20 and below...that is just one of the many benefits. In one year, I spend $66 on oil and filters (2 filters, 7 qts oil)...and that's 24k miles. Change your oil every 3k, and you'll go through 7 additional oil changes (42 qts oil, 7 filters) for a total of around $84. Then add the price of labor for each change. I change my own oil, and my time is worth something. Yours may not...that's for you to decide. Now tell me.....How is dino oil cheaper? 
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 146
CEG\'er
|
|
CEG\'er
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 146 |
I recently purchased my tour with 36k on it. The receipts show dino oil. Will changing to syn release deposits and sludge? So my real concern is: After I put Mobil 1 in it should I change the oil sooner the first time?
99 Silver CSVT #1081/2760
97 Nissan Altima
83 Corolla SR5 RWD bondo/rust body 'ghetto cruiser' RIP
78 Winnebago Minnie (Dodge Chassis 23') 440cid 4bbl.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 21,653
I have no life
|
|
I have no life
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 21,653 |
change it at 3k miles first time, should be alright. increase change interval a little every time you change after that.
98.5 SVT
91 Escort GT (almost sold)
96 ATX Zetec (i brake to watch you swerve)
FS: SVT rear sway bar
WTB: Very cheap beater
CEG Dragon Run - October 13-15
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 21,653
I have no life
|
|
I have no life
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 21,653 |
Originally posted by dnewma04:
How many people keep their cars past 100k anyway?
i will (have clost to 90k right now, and just go the car 9 months ago). i want to do everything i can to protect the engine (especially in georgia heat, and the way I sometimes treat the car). anything that can possibly make the car last longer is worth it to me. and since I change it myself, the cost comes out to around the same as quick lube cost. A smoother idle can't be bad for the engine at times other than idle, so I figure that's a good indication that it's helping. (Synthetics used early enough can help to stop leaks (smaller molecule size, seals better) as long as you have lower miles, so yes it can make an engine last longer).
98.5 SVT
91 Escort GT (almost sold)
96 ATX Zetec (i brake to watch you swerve)
FS: SVT rear sway bar
WTB: Very cheap beater
CEG Dragon Run - October 13-15
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: May 2000
Posts: 9,196
Hard-core CEG'er
|
|
Hard-core CEG'er
Joined: May 2000
Posts: 9,196 |
Originally posted by dnewma04:
Quote:
but that means you don't think a smoother idle, longer lasting engine is a reason.
Assuming proper oil changes, the increase in engine life between Syns and Dinos are practically undetectable. Some of the results I have seen are so similar that no clear advantage can be given to either.
As far as the smooth idle goes, I suppose if you can justify spending 2x as much to get a smoother idling engine that lasts the same amount of time, so be it.
How many people keep their cars past 100k anyway?
I know what your saying D, especially the above statement about 100K, but check this out. I remember talking to my ex-boss and he and his buddy w/ a 9 sec T/A tore the motor apart after a couple seasons. Upon inspecting the main bearings my ex-boss, an "old schooler", was stunned...no wear to be found  I feel running Mobil 1 is insurance for your motor, whats a couple extra bucks? Someone in one of the previous post was talking about how expensive Mobil 1 is, better get out the WD40 because someone is SQEAKING 
"THEE" Roger R
USMondeo@aol.com
2005 Crossfire Limited coupe'
-FOR SALE @buyout price & I'll...
-throw in my 93' Regal as winter car
*Dragon Run 06'...Oct 12-15th*
Puur-fection Auto Detailing
Complete packages from $140.00
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 568
Veteran CEG\'er
|
|
Veteran CEG\'er
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 568 |
Originally posted by dnewma04:
I know there are some. I was just insinuating that there aren't many.
I have 115k mile on my truck and most of my cars have gone well over 150k.
Yeah, I know what you mean...
Maybe it's 'cause folks today just can't bear to be without a car payment...
B. Riley
Melbourne, FL
'01 Camry LE V6/5-spd
Was: '00 Black/Tan SVT Contour #560 - Sold 3/26/03
Before that: '95 Champ/Blue Contour GL V6 ATX
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 4,789
I feel Guilty, Oh so guilty
|
|
I feel Guilty, Oh so guilty
Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 4,789 |
Originally posted by Kremithefrog:
Originally posted by dnewma04:
How many people keep their cars past 100k anyway?
i will (have clost to 90k right now, and just go the car 9 months ago). i want to do everything i can to protect the engine (especially in georgia heat, and the way I sometimes treat the car). anything that can possibly make the car last longer is worth it to me. and since I change it myself, the cost comes out to around the same as quick lube cost. A smoother idle can't be bad for the engine at times other than idle, so I figure that's a good indication that it's helping. (Synthetics used early enough can help to stop leaks (smaller molecule size, seals better) as long as you have lower miles, so yes it can make an engine last longer).
Synthetics have never shown a definitively longer engine life. Basically, if you changed your oil religously at 3k miles using Dino oil and had an identical car and changed mobil 1 every 5k miles (I'm being outlandishly conservative with the intervals), no testing has shown the car using Mobil 1 will have longer engine life. I wholeheartedly disagree with your comment that it will definitively last longer. It may or may not last longer. If you don't mind spending the extra money to get piece of mind, so be it.
"If you are flammable and have legs, you are never blocking a fire exit"
-Mitch Hedberg
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 4,789
I feel Guilty, Oh so guilty
|
|
I feel Guilty, Oh so guilty
Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 4,789 |
Originally posted by Thuundar80530:
That would be the case if there weren't such things as temperature extremes. Ever see dino oil at -20F? You may as well not have any oil in your engine at all. You can't honestly say that doesn't affect the wear on your engine. Synthetics (and some blends) will flow very well at -20 and below...that is just one of the many benefits. In one year, I spend $66 on oil and filters (2 filters, 7 qts oil)...and that's 24k miles. Change your oil every 3k, and you'll go through 7 additional oil changes (42 qts oil, 7 filters) for a total of around $84. Then add the price of labor for each change. I change my own oil, and my time is worth something. Yours may not...that's for you to decide.
I'm not sure which kind of synthetic you are using, so it's hard to make a comparison but lets use absurdly short intervals for comparison sake and say that every 3k for dino and every 5k for Mobil 1. I drive 40k per year on average and my vehicle uses 5 quarts of oil.
Synthetic (Mobile 1)
5 quarts of oil on sale at 3.75/qt......18.75
Filter: Mobile 1 filter................11.99
1 Oil change...........................~30.00
8 oil changes per year................$240.00
Dino (Mobile 0)
5 quarts of oil on sale..................4.99
Motorcraft Filter........................3.99
1 oil change.............................9.00
13 oil changes per year................$117.00
Now lets try something more realisitic with 6000 mile changes on the dino oil and in your example 12k intervals with mobile 1 (or whatever you use)
Dino=7 changes per year.......63.00
Syn=3.3 changes per year......100.00
Quote:
Now tell me.....How is dino oil cheaper?
Any questions? Or would you like to manipulate the numbers again?
"If you are flammable and have legs, you are never blocking a fire exit"
-Mitch Hedberg
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 499
CEG\'er
|
|
CEG\'er
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 499 |
Originally posted by dnewma04:
Originally posted by PoopStainz:
im running mobile 1 (for my 1st time) on a motorcraft oil filter. i ran some cheapo synthetic for lile 1500 miles before i changed to mobile 1. will i be fine going 5000 mikes before a change? (duratec)
Absolutely. 5000k on dino oil would be fine, so synthetics should cause no problems.
Same case for me. Just switched to Mobil1 at 39K miles. Also switched from Fram to Motorcraft filters. Will the filter last 5000 miles? My engine is noticeably smoother at idle.
1999 Contour SVT #1966/2760, Silver Frost/Midnight Blue
Koni Kit, Mille Miglia MM-S rims, B&M shifter, Stazi mesh, SFCs, optimized Y-pipe & TB, SS break lines, K&N drop-in, Infinity Kappa speakers, MTX amp/sub
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: May 2000
Posts: 2,127
Hard-core CEG'er
|
|
Hard-core CEG'er
Joined: May 2000
Posts: 2,127 |
Originally posted by dnewma04:
I'm not sure which kind of synthetic you are using, so it's hard to make a comparison but lets use absurdly short intervals for comparison sake and say that every 3k for dino and every 5k for Mobil 1. I drive 40k per year on average and my vehicle uses 5 quarts of oil.
Synthetic (Mobile 1)
5 quarts of oil on sale at 3.75/qt......18.75
Filter: Mobile 1 filter................11.99
1 Oil change...........................~30.00
8 oil changes per year................$240.00
Dino (Mobile 0)
5 quarts of oil on sale..................4.99
Motorcraft Filter........................3.99
1 oil change.............................9.00
13 oil changes per year................$117.00
Now lets try something more realisitic with 6000 mile changes on the dino oil and in your example 12k intervals with mobile 1 (or whatever you use)
Dino=7 changes per year.......63.00
Syn=3.3 changes per year......100.00
Quote:
Now tell me.....How is dino oil cheaper?
Any questions? Or would you like to manipulate the numbers again?
I think you need to use the same filters in both comparisons since we are talking about the cost of Synthetic oil.
So in the case of the 3K vs 5K intervals you are talking $117 vs $176, using the Motorcraft filter in all cases.
And looking at 6K vs 12K the costs are $63 vs $73.60
Still convetional oil is cheaper, but not drastically.
Use the Mobil 1 filter in both cases and the cost to use conventional oil at shorter intervals is greater than to use synthetic.
Of course, any scenario can be crafted to make any choice appear to be the best, cost wise. So buy what makes you sleep better at night.
TB
"Seems like our society is more interested in turning each successive generation into cookie-cutter wankers than anything else." -- Jato 8/24/2004
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 4,789
I feel Guilty, Oh so guilty
|
|
I feel Guilty, Oh so guilty
Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 4,789 |
Good point, Tony. I guess I should have left all else equal.
Although, I guess if someone was going to spend extra money on oil for piece of mind, they probably wouldn't "skimp" on a filter for the same reason.
Last edited by dnewma04; 01/07/03 05:14 PM.
"If you are flammable and have legs, you are never blocking a fire exit"
-Mitch Hedberg
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jun 2000
Posts: 1,469
Hard-core CEG\'er
|
|
Hard-core CEG\'er
Joined: Jun 2000
Posts: 1,469 |
I think synthetics are best for SVT for 3 reasons..
1) Be it from oil starvation or crank whip, Duratecs have an issue with spun bearings. Key oil factor relating to bearing protection is viscosity index (better VI = mre durable oil film on bearing). Synthetics are better in measure VI (Amsoil best, Mobil 1 & Redline next best IIRC).
2) SVT Duratec is about the highest reving Domestic street engine (actually tied with SVT Cobra 4.6 at 7K RPM & SVT Focus at 7.2K). SVT has peak power at 6600+ RPM which means you are near redline alot.
3) Synthetic is factory fill on some of the best engines...Vette, MB, BMW, Porsche...makes you wonder??
A "typical" motor that runs under 5K RPM most of the time with no spun bearing issues......I may not bother with synthetic. But an SVT motor......
1999 Amazon Green SVT Contour (#554/2760)
"People demand freedom of speech as a compensation for the freedom of thought which they seldom use."
-Soren Kierkegaard (as posted by Jato)
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 37
New CEG\'er
|
|
New CEG\'er
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 37 |
Change interval for high end synthetics is NOT 5k miles. 25k miles, with warranty. Change the filter every 12.5k miles, again warranty. Price per quart is around $6. Filter for a Contour is less than $10. Let's NOT use the same filter for dino oil. Synthetics require better filters. And by high end, I'm talking synthetics formulated to run more than 7.5k miles (Mobil 1). Who's manipulating numbers, change the oil as specified by the oil manufacturer. And my Contour uses 6 quarts of oil..not 5. We'll use your outlandish 40k per year (very high number).
Dino (Mobile 0) (3k)
5 quarts of oil on sale..................4.99
Motorcraft Filter........................3.99
1 oil change.............................9.00
13 oil changes per year................$117.00
Amsoil (for example)
1 quart + 1 filter @ 12.5k..............$16.00
6 quarts + 1 filter @ 25k...............$46.00
1 quart + 1 filter @ 37.5k..............$16.00
Total...................................$78.00
I still save $39 (plus labor) with my higher capacity engine that the starter spins at the same speed whether it's -10F or 90F. Now let's add labor of $10 per time on the lift. Synthetic - $108. Dino - $207.
What's your problem Jack?
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 21,653
I have no life
|
|
I have no life
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 21,653 |
Originally posted by tboner:
So buy what makes you sleep better at night.
that's why i buy synthetic. smoother idle means something to me. and even a small chance for longer engine life is good reason to me. Synthetics have been proven to protect better. (maintain properties better, can help on young engines, of course bad for engine that already has bad seals). For most people, synthetic is not needed (not keeping the car for over 150k miles, not treating the car like it's made to race, no extreme conditions) but for some (keeper car FOREVER, treating it badly sometimes,etc.) synthetic is worth the little extra. and i still change below 5k miles (last change was at 3100 miles), but I do use a motorcraft filter.
98.5 SVT
91 Escort GT (almost sold)
96 ATX Zetec (i brake to watch you swerve)
FS: SVT rear sway bar
WTB: Very cheap beater
CEG Dragon Run - October 13-15
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 4,789
I feel Guilty, Oh so guilty
|
|
I feel Guilty, Oh so guilty
Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 4,789 |
Hi Bill,
Sorry for the long winded response.
Originally posted by Thuundar80530:
Change interval for high end synthetics is NOT 5k miles.
And similarly, change intervals for conventional oils are NOT 3k miles.
Quote:
25k miles, with warranty. Change the filter every 12.5k miles, again warranty.
That is if you buy into Amsoils claims of 25k changes. At least one of the Big 3 has no confidence in there claims based on their testing.
Quote:
Price per quart is around $6. Filter for a Contour is less than $10. Let's NOT use the same filter for dino oil. Synthetics require better filters. And by high end, I'm talking synthetics formulated to run more than 7.5k miles (Mobil 1).
You never specified so I used Fords recommendation of Mobile 1 in SVTs as a comparison. I decided on 3 and 5k intervals because both are ridiculously low. If I had any idea that you were referring to Amsoil, I would have increased the interval.
Quote:
Who's manipulating numbers (?)
Before this post, it appeared as you were because you didn't establish any parameters for your original numbers.
Quote:
And my Contour uses 6 quarts of oil..not 5.
Congratulations, mine used just about the same. My Escort, Biscayne and Ranger use less(!). Now let's get back on topic.
Quote:
We'll use your outlandish 40k per year (very high number).
I deeply apologize for my long commute to work. Perhaps, I should have picked a less outlandish place to live, but I like it and I think I will stay.
I will just get rid of the example as we can manipulate the numbers to give us whatever result we want.
Quote:
What's your problem Jack?
I have no problem, George. I was just trying to make a point that few if any of us NEEDS to use synthetic as it hasn't been proven to extend engine life. Most synthetics cost more to use. If Amsoil does get to the point that its additives survive the 25k mile duration, I may consider using it if it saved me money. But until then, I would feel safer using conventionals with a 5k interval.
Nice discussing this with you, Gilbert.
btw, nice guess at my name with "Jack", I have a cousin named Jack so you were damn close! Did I come close with Bill, Gilbert or George?
Dave
Last edited by dnewma04; 01/08/03 07:21 PM.
"If you are flammable and have legs, you are never blocking a fire exit"
-Mitch Hedberg
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 3,867
Hard-core CEG'er
|
|
Hard-core CEG'er
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 3,867 |
Function before fashion.
'96 Contour SE
"Toss the Contour into a corner, and it's as easy to catch as a softball thrown by a preschooler." -Edmunds, 1998
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 4,789
I feel Guilty, Oh so guilty
|
|
I feel Guilty, Oh so guilty
Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 4,789 |
I did make a mistake in my interpretation of the testing. Synthetic will extend engine life, but regular oil changes with Dyno will allow an engine to remain within tolerances to the 250k to 300k. At this mileage, wear is measurable but not engine life threatening. With a synthetic, it will be better. So, if you plan to drive your vehicle to 500k miles or that range, that would be a good reason to use synthetic. Sorry for the misinfo.
"If you are flammable and have legs, you are never blocking a fire exit"
-Mitch Hedberg
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 21,653
I have no life
|
|
I have no life
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 21,653 |
bingo. good dino, good changes, good life. gooder synthetic. good changes, gooder life. i do plan to keep my 'tour to the point that most cars would have 500k miles, but i'll have another car or two or three by then. so the 'tour will stay lower miles and become a show car.
98.5 SVT
91 Escort GT (almost sold)
96 ATX Zetec (i brake to watch you swerve)
FS: SVT rear sway bar
WTB: Very cheap beater
CEG Dragon Run - October 13-15
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 429
CEG\'er
|
|
CEG\'er
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 429 |
This hasn't been an issue for over a decade. Synthetics are superior in every way, except cost.
No need to worry at all about using in your engine.
Dan B.
96 SE 2.5 auto
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 3,506
Hard-core CEG'er
|
|
OP
Hard-core CEG'er
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 3,506 |
Originally posted by Thuundar80530:
Change interval for high end synthetics is NOT 5k miles. 25k miles, with warranty. Change the filter every 12.5k miles, again warranty. Price per quart is around $6. Filter for a Contour is less than $10. Let's NOT use the same filter for dino oil. Synthetics require better filters. And by high end, I'm talking synthetics formulated to run more than 7.5k miles (Mobil 1). Who's manipulating numbers, change the oil as specified by the oil manufacturer. And my Contour uses 6 quarts of oil..not 5. We'll use your outlandish 40k per year (very high number).
OK, I have to disagree with part of the above statement. Any oil I would not change every 25,000 Miles. The longest I have gone is 10,000k and thats only because I was on business trips with my work and didn;t have time.
And 40k is just a ludicrus number. I know...some manufatures now say you can go 25k, 30k and even 50k before you have an oil change....But if you speak to a meachnic (even most dealer mechanics)here in SanJose, CA, they still
reconmend changing oil every 5 to 7k miles.
Even my own work a parts whole seller,(who has few cars in the SpeedVision challange)reconmend a 5 to 7 interval. And I trust my work more than a mechanic.
Just my opinion.
Roz
3.0 SVT hybrid...all the fixens...Track/Race ready very soon!!!!!! 20,000 + miles
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 4,789
I feel Guilty, Oh so guilty
|
|
I feel Guilty, Oh so guilty
Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 4,789 |
40k in the original example is the mileage I put on my car on average during a given year. It is not an oil change interval.
I don't buy into the Amsoil 25k oil change. It CAN happen under ideal conditions, but even with amsoil, your engine ( even the best engine with the best oil) will burn oil. I would expect that at least 1 quart (likely more) filler quart would be used under even ideal conditions. Oil usage in a typical engine can range from 3k to 14k (on the same engine one 2.5l duratec compared to another 2.5l duratec). The issue with Amsoil is that they use the same additives as the rest of the industry and they will rarely last as long as their claimed 25k miles.
"If you are flammable and have legs, you are never blocking a fire exit"
-Mitch Hedberg
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 829
Veteran CEG\'er
|
|
Veteran CEG\'er
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 829 |
I have used Mobil 1, Redline and am currently using Amsoil. Only a true idiot would go 25k miles without changing oil, but I have been known to go 5-6500 miles on one change. It is much better looking when used, than is dino oil.
BTW- The reason that synth oil leaks is because it is "searching" and will make it's way out of any space it encounters.
Down side- Cost, especially the good stuff.
Up Side- Hmmm... Maybe extended motor life...
SVT Parts For Sale!PM Me.
2006 M6 Cyclone Gray GTO
1995 Mazda Protege Commuter Special
93 FXDWG Dyna Wide Glide
I'm A TROLL Now!~
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 37
New CEG\'er
|
|
New CEG\'er
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 37 |
Welcome to the technology era. I've run Amsoil to 75k with regular oil analysis...and it always comes back ready to go. This was in an F150, 5.8L HO, regularly used to pull trailer loads in excess of 10,000 pounds. It did burn a quart of oil about every 5-6k. I run oil analysis on my Contour, I've yet to have a result that said I actually needed to change the oil, but since I take the sample as I drain it, it's too late...and it uses no oil between filter changes (12k miles give or take a bit of procrastination.) Also in a Mustang with a 302 and a 7500 rpm redline. 12k miles on the engine before I wanted something stronger. Over 300 1/4 mile runs, plus shifting at 4k almost all the time, and generous throttle usage during the entire 12k miles. Tore the engine down, upgraded the pistons (old ones had ZERO deposits, no visible wear...rings still had the grooves in them) and heads, and put it back together. The initial layer on the bearings was of course gone, but all parts measured EXACTLY the same as they were put in, as verified by my machinist. The hone marks in the cylinders were still very visible. If anything, the engine wasn't broken in yet. I switched to 20w-50 Amsoil at 1500 miles. This current engine (only changed the rings) will be run up to 3000 miles before the switch to try and run it in a little better. Again, oil analysis showed the oil to be like new. No additional oil was ever added to this engine.
Amsoil is a proven product, and there are plenty of people with over 100k and no oil changes...oil analysis shows good. Amsoil has a very good warranty on their product, and has had so for over 30 years, to the best of my knowledge. Probably trillions of miles...and NO claims. If you can't believe their track record...you're not going to believe anything.
Get out of the 60s, and into the next century.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 1,616
Hard-core CEG'er
|
|
Hard-core CEG'er
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 1,616 |
Originally posted by Thuundar80530:
Get out of the 60s, and into the next century.
Riiiiiiiiiiight...next thing you'll be telling us is that Fuel Injection is better than my Holley Double Pumper... 
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 37
New CEG\'er
|
|
New CEG\'er
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 37 |
For high performance (racing) I use a double pumper, though a proper FI system is going to be better. They are just very costly and are generally 100% custom. Not too many people have the brains to design and run one of 'em. Holley Pro-Jection, Edelbrock MFI, etc. are not good enough for high performance. And my double pumper isn't up to 60s specs, either. I take full advantage of modern manufacturing tolerances and technology...I'm sure you do to, though you may not know it
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 4,789
I feel Guilty, Oh so guilty
|
|
I feel Guilty, Oh so guilty
Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 4,789 |
Quote:
Amsoil is a proven product, and there are plenty of people with over 100k and no oil changes...oil analysis shows good. Amsoil has a very good warranty on their product, and has had so for over 30 years, to the best of my knowledge. Probably trillions of miles...and NO claims. If you can't believe their track record...you're not going to believe anything.
The oil may last longer than 25k, but the additives are the issue. They may last 25k under ideal conditions, but that would be a stretch even in that case. As I said before, they use the same additives as everyone else.
"If you are flammable and have legs, you are never blocking a fire exit"
-Mitch Hedberg
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 2,469
Hard-core CEG'er
|
|
Hard-core CEG'er
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 2,469 |
wow i wounder if the starter of this topic had an idea how long this post was gonna turn into
98 csvt t-red.. sho-shop intake, b&m, fidanza, spec1 clutch, Torsen, DMD,optimized Y& TB, Brullen, rear strut bar,h&r's,17" konig traffik's.
"I say what I mean and I do what i say"
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 3,506
Hard-core CEG'er
|
|
OP
Hard-core CEG'er
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 3,506 |
Originally posted by dubkatz:
wow i wounder if the starter of this topic had an idea how long this post was gonna turn into
You know...I started this topic...and nope I had no clue...lamo....im kicking myself in the head...lol
Just to set things stright....to me it doesn't matter how long oil is supposted to last...to get the best longivity out of your engine, i think most people here will agree that changing your oil ever 5000 miles wether it is sythetic, or dino oil, is the best thing for your car.
So....next oil topic please!!!! lol
Roz
3.0 SVT hybrid...all the fixens...Track/Race ready very soon!!!!!! 20,000 + miles
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 365
CEG\'er
|
|
CEG\'er
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 365 |
Originally posted by Big Jim:
I just like keeping the engine clean. My experience is that longer oil change intervals are more likely to lead to sludged up engines. Perhaps it is a little old fashioned, but I remember tearing down too many engines that had huge amounts of sludge. Even today's engines with today's oils are not immune. Look at the problems that Toyota has been having. I believe in agressive maintenance.
Jim,
About eight years ago, when I was an Amsoil dealer*, I occasionally would personally convert someone's car from conventional engine oil to Amsoil. Unless it was a very low-mileage vehicle w/ between 10-15K** (and few were), my method went like this:
> Dump old oil and filter
> Install cheapest generic spin-on filter that would fit the car and add one quart of cheapest Brand X oil available that met spec
> Add 16 oz can Amsoil Engine Flush.
> Fill remainder of crankcase with remaining Brand X oil.
> Idle engine at 2500-3000 rpm for 30-60 minutes, depending on appearance/smell of original oil.
> Shut down. Remove filler cap. Lose flush oil and filter.
> Drain for as long as required to purge "99.99%" of flush oil and allow solvent residue to volatilize and escape -- normally, no more than an hour.
> Fill Amsoil spin-on filter with oil, install. Fill crankcase with Amsoil synth ... then what you'd do from that point after any oil change.
Basically, it was the automotive equivalant of a Barium enema.
And suffice to say (because I'm getting long-winded), it worked very well in returning the engine and lubrication system to a state near-enough to pristine that the synthetic oil could take over from there and the driver could expect an initial drain-interval far in excess of 3K .. and, with the next change, expect to be able to extend the drain-interval to the limit of the engine's baseline, mechanical condition.
Drumbo
_________________________________________________________
* Although I haven't been in the synlube business for a number of years, I have run Amsoil synlubes front-to-back in all my vehicles over the past 15 years.
** And if it was a high-mileage vehicle with an uncertain maintenence history, Amsoil never came up in conversation with the owner
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 2,017
Hard-core CEG\'er
|
|
Hard-core CEG\'er
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 2,017 |
Originally posted by DemonSVT:
Your best bet is a full synthetic (Mobil 1, Royal Purple, AMSOil - but NEVER Syntec!) or a quality dino. Definitely skip the blends if you want to save a buck by not running a full synthetic.
Well I'm tired of seeing that Castrol Syntec is garbage so I did a search and found this answer by Amsoil.
Faq written by Amsoil
Castrol Syntec beat Mobil tri in the 4 ball wear test which is a standard test for oils!
Amsoil was the best.
Quoted from the Faq's
"Dirt, the number one cause of engine failure, was found to be responsible for 43.4% of failures, and insufficient lubrication, the second most common cause of failure, was responsible for 16.6% of failures."
And this is another article that lists Castrol as 3rd best
Oil test
Quote from second article
"the comparison graph done with the new tri-synthetic formulation of Mobil 1. You can see that it scores significantly worse in it's new formulation. As you can also see, Castrol Syntec also scores significantly worse as well" but Castrol beat Mobil!
Sure Amsoil is a full synthetic and the rest might be some form of a blend, but if the test results add up then how can Castrol be bad!
Just thought you might like to know.
p.s. If I got the Mobil 1 oil wrong then the one you were trying to recommend I'm sorry. Please state which Mobil 1 product your referring to.
1996 2.5LT V6 Contour ATX My Tour+help/info pics
E0 rims, Gutted Pre-Cats,CTA Custom Exhaust & Intake, Diablo Chip.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 1,977
Hard-core CEG'er
|
|
Hard-core CEG'er
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 1,977 |
Originally posted by chongo:
p.s. If I got the Mobil 1 oil wrong then the one you were trying to recommend I'm sorry. Please state which Mobil 1 product your referring to.
It's not the new Mobil 1 SuperSyn. It's the older Tri-Synthetic that they don't sell anymore. Also note that they said that the Castrol Syntec is NOT synthetic?
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 146
CEG\'er
|
|
CEG\'er
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 146 |
The test data in the second article is from 1995 and 1999. Also Castrol was actually synthetic for the tests, not as it is now. That data has no relevance to someone deciding what to put in their car today.
99 Silver CSVT #1081/2760
97 Nissan Altima
83 Corolla SR5 RWD bondo/rust body 'ghetto cruiser' RIP
78 Winnebago Minnie (Dodge Chassis 23') 440cid 4bbl.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 3,632
Hard-core CEG'er
|
|
Hard-core CEG'er
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 3,632 |
"Cobb - It's not just for corn anymore!"
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 2,017
Hard-core CEG\'er
|
|
Hard-core CEG\'er
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 2,017 |
Originally posted by SVT_CT:
The test data in the second article is from 1995 and 1999. Also Castrol was actually synthetic for the tests, not as it is now. That data has no relevance to someone deciding what to put in their car today.
Don't know if you read the article properly, but in the 1999 test it said that Castrol Syntec is just an advanced dino oil now with some synthetic additives.
As for the Amsoil Faq's (Castrol wasn't a synthetic for this test) you guys believe Amsoil is the best, well do you beleive the test results from them too?
Airknight I did say that Castrol was a blend.
1996 2.5LT V6 Contour ATX My Tour+help/info pics
E0 rims, Gutted Pre-Cats,CTA Custom Exhaust & Intake, Diablo Chip.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 146
CEG\'er
|
|
CEG\'er
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 146 |
Originally posted by chongo:
Don't know if you read the article properly, but in the 1999 test it said that Castrol Syntec is just an advanced dino oil now with some synthetic additives.
As for the Amsoil Faq's (Castrol wasn't a synthetic for this test) you guys believe Amsoil is the best, well do you beleive the test results from them too?
Airknight I did say that Castrol was a blend.
I did read it properly. Syntec may have already started being dino oil in 1999 but it is not the same oil 4 years later. I repeat my point that syntec is not the same now as in those tests. That is old data. I also don't believe Amsoil is best, but it is a top quality oil and I believe anything is better than syntec. Another good point to note is that this is only one out of many ways to test oil. Finally, why do you stand by a company that blatantly lies to its consumers?
99 Silver CSVT #1081/2760
97 Nissan Altima
83 Corolla SR5 RWD bondo/rust body 'ghetto cruiser' RIP
78 Winnebago Minnie (Dodge Chassis 23') 440cid 4bbl.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 365
CEG\'er
|
|
CEG\'er
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 365 |
Originally posted by AirKnight:
Originally posted by FastFordFreak:
It can cause leaks in high-mileage engines
WRONG! Synthetic oil is NOT the cause of oil leak. It's because of other problem like the gaskets are already getting brittle, and the more refined synthetic oil can seep through the cracks. The only bad thing about synthetic oil is cost.
Not wrong, actually.
Post-conversion leaks often are revealed due to the aggressive detergent packages found in hi-end synthetics. If the engine is oil-fouled due to age or neglect, the synth will very quickly clean out the residual gunk deposited by conventional oils. This can reveal existing leaks or weaknesses that had been masked by the gunk.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 365
CEG\'er
|
|
CEG\'er
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 365 |
Originally posted by 88SVT:
Originally posted by rozwell911:
Hey Guys, Happy holidays. I hope everyone is safe out there.
I was over hearing a conversation of a few mechanics and some of them said that they wouldn't reconmend Sythetic Oil over Regular. Now I love my Mobile one in my car, but is running sythetic bad?? I can't believe that but the question is running through my mind because thats what one of the mechanic said. I know mixing sythetic and reg. is bad but I find it hard to believe Pure sytheic is bad for you car...and yes I over heard the entire conversation of the mechanics so I didn;t leave anything out.
Can anyone shed a little light?
Roz
I'd run what the manufacturer suggests. Some manufacturers (Lotus, GM for Corvette, etc.) use Mobil 1. Ford now uses some sort of synthetic blend I believe when you go to get your oil changed at the dealership. Everyone is going to have their preference, mostly guided by what someone else says or does. When I was a kid a million years ago, I'd run nothing but Valvoline Racing Oil in my Cuda. Why? Because some racing team did. Did it make my car faster or protect the engine better? Probably no to both answers (it was street driven). And that was dino oil. And I've had all my car's engines (except the Contour's) apart for reasons ranging from total rebuilds to just changing valve cover gaskets (Ranger) and their engines have been as clean as the proverbial babies behind. All of them. The Ranger has over 350K miles on it and it's never faltered once in any area that oil would make a difference. A regular oil/filter change mantra is the best insurance you can provide.
By the way, you didn't state why these guys said that synthetic was bad so something was left out. At any rate, run it if you want but as a number of posters have said, it's probably overkill. Personally, and even though our cars are fast approaching end of warranty (if not already out of warranty) being guided by what the manufacturer suggests is better insurance as far as I'm concerned if for only one reason: If your engine failed while under warranty and it was regularly serviced at a dealer, you'd likely suffer less of a hassle getting it replaced than if you DIY'd it with some other type oil. It's got to count for something. Just my .02 cents.
Karl
Spec is spec, Karl. If you've been running ANY oil that meets manufacturer's spec and changing it at the correct intervals, any dealer who uses tries to use your choice of oil as a club to beat you with is trying to run a number on you.
If anything, the closer you are to out-of-warranty, the stronger the case for converting to synthetics ASAP.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 365
CEG\'er
|
|
CEG\'er
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 365 |
Originally posted by STATIC:
I use Wix I think they are one of the best out there if you ask me.
Actually, if I remember right, Wix oil filters came in dead-last in the last Amsoil oil-filter test I saw. That was less than a year ago.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 365
CEG\'er
|
|
CEG\'er
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 365 |
Originally posted by dnewma04:
Originally posted by PoopStainz:
im running mobile 1 (for my 1st time) on a motorcraft oil filter. i ran some cheapo synthetic for lile 1500 miles before i changed to mobile 1. will i be fine going 5000 mikes before a change? (duratec)
Absolutely. 5000k on dino oil would be fine, so synthetics should cause no problems.
Hold the phone ...
Mobil does not recommend Mobil 1 for extended drains. And, unless you live somewhere like Hawaii, where the air temp doesn't vary by much more than 15-degrees all year, I don't recommend a 5000K drain with any conventional oil.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 365
CEG\'er
|
|
CEG\'er
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 365 |
Originally posted by rozwell911:
Originally posted by Thuundar80530:
Change interval for high end synthetics is NOT 5k miles. 25k miles, with warranty. Change the filter every 12.5k miles, again warranty. Price per quart is around $6. Filter for a Contour is less than $10. Let's NOT use the same filter for dino oil. Synthetics require better filters. And by high end, I'm talking synthetics formulated to run more than 7.5k miles (Mobil 1). Who's manipulating numbers, change the oil as specified by the oil manufacturer. And my Contour uses 6 quarts of oil..not 5. We'll use your outlandish 40k per year (very high number).
OK, I have to disagree with part of the above statement. Any oil I would not change every 25,000 Miles. The longest I have gone is 10,000k and thats only because I was on business trips with my work and didn;t have time.
And 40k is just a ludicrus number. I know...some manufatures now say you can go 25k, 30k and even 50k before you have an oil change....But if you speak to a meachnic (even most dealer mechanics)here in SanJose, CA, they still
reconmend changing oil every 5 to 7k miles.
Even my own work a parts whole seller,(who has few cars in the SpeedVision challange)reconmend a 5 to 7 interval. And I trust my work more than a mechanic.
Just my opinion.
Roz
Then you'll be interested to learn this, Roz: When I had my Merkur XR4Ti (a turbo car w/cast iron block AND cast iron head, INSANE underhood temps -- made worse by >100-degree Texas summers --and modified by me for higher boost and compression), I once had the Amsoil 10-w40 I ran in my car analyzed at 9000+ miles. The lab certified it as still good for use. Even Amsoil does not recommend a drain interval that long for turbo cars. After that, I neverf hesitated to go 7000-8000 miles between oil changes in that car.
I currently go approx 14,000 between changes in my CSVT -- using Amsoil's spin-on oil filter, of course.
Drumbo
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 3,632
Hard-core CEG'er
|
|
Hard-core CEG'er
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 3,632 |
Originally posted by Drumbo:
Originally posted by AirKnight:
Originally posted by FastFordFreak:
It can cause leaks in high-mileage engines
WRONG! Synthetic oil is NOT the cause of oil leak. It's because of other problem like the gaskets are already getting brittle, and the more refined synthetic oil can seep through the cracks. The only bad thing about synthetic oil is cost.
Not wrong, actually.
Post-conversion leaks often are revealed due to the aggressive detergent packages found in hi-end synthetics. If the engine is oil-fouled due to age or neglect, the synth will very quickly clean out the residual gunk deposited by conventional oils. This can reveal existing leaks or weaknesses that had been masked by the gunk.
Actually, Airknight said it will not CAUSE leaks. As you said it may REVEAL problems that already exist.
"Cobb - It's not just for corn anymore!"
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 1,977
Hard-core CEG'er
|
|
Hard-core CEG'er
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 1,977 |
Originally posted by MotorCity:
Actually, Airknight said it will not CAUSE leaks. As you said it may REVEAL problems that already exist.
Exactly! I stand by my comment of synthetic will not cause leak.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: May 2000
Posts: 9,196
Hard-core CEG'er
|
|
Hard-core CEG'er
Joined: May 2000
Posts: 9,196 |
Its a proven performer and it come from the factory in Porche, Viper and Corvettes to name a few. It may cost about twice as much, atleast Mobil 1 does, but when you stop and think about how long you can leave it in there and how many people here have had it sent out and tested and then told it still has life left in it, why wouldn't you run it. Don't forget the oil filter, Mobil 1, Pure One or the K&N gold to name a few, you need a quality filter when running the extended interval
"THEE" Roger R
USMondeo@aol.com
2005 Crossfire Limited coupe'
-FOR SALE @buyout price & I'll...
-throw in my 93' Regal as winter car
*Dragon Run 06'...Oct 12-15th*
Puur-fection Auto Detailing
Complete packages from $140.00
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 365
CEG\'er
|
|
CEG\'er
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 365 |
Originally posted by MotorCity:
Originally posted by Drumbo:
Originally posted by AirKnight:
Originally posted by FastFordFreak:
It can cause leaks in high-mileage engines
WRONG! Synthetic oil is NOT the cause of oil leak. It's because of other problem like the gaskets are already getting brittle, and the more refined synthetic oil can seep through the cracks. The only bad thing about synthetic oil is cost.
Not wrong, actually.
Post-conversion leaks often are revealed due to the aggressive detergent packages found in hi-end synthetics. If the engine is oil-fouled due to age or neglect, the synth will very quickly clean out the residual gunk deposited by conventional oils. This can reveal existing leaks or weaknesses that had been masked by the gunk.
Actually, Airknight said it will not CAUSE leaks. As you said it may REVEAL problems that already exist.
You're right. I misread Airknight's post.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 4,693
Hard-core CEG'er
|
|
Hard-core CEG'er
Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 4,693 |
This thread seems to have taken a life of it's own. I wonder if it will ever end.
About Mobil 1 and oil leaks. According to some of the reading i have done, and I don't remember where, early Mobil 1 sometimes did cause leaks, especially when used in older engines. Mobil 1 has since changed their formulation so this is less of a problem. It seems that the base stock tended to slightly shrink some gasket materials, especially when changing to Mobil 1 after using dino oil for a long time. The move to the "tri synthetic" nearly eliminated that problem as the offending base stock was supplimented with two additional base stocks that did not have that property. Receintly, Mobil 1 has had their formulation altered once again. I'm sure that they are continually working to improve the product.
After reading that, I reflected on some engine tear downs I had seen where Mobil 1 had been used. The gaskets did look a little different, but nothing I could quite put my finger on. It was like suddenly a part of the puzzle came together.
I'm sure that these comments will stir the pot and generate more posts for this thread.
Jim Johnson
98 SVT
03 Escape Limited
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 3,506
Hard-core CEG'er
|
|
OP
Hard-core CEG'er
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 3,506 |
I'd like to thank everyone who posted...i have recived some very important and intresting information.
I think the last question i have is:
I have been using mobile one since i got my car in sept. of 2002. It had 72,000 miles on it...should i ahve changed the gakets on my car when i did this? Because when i changed the oild eveything was fine for a month or 2 then as the system starth cleaning out, i noticed a leak near, or possibly comming fomr the oil pan.
Any thoughts??? And it looks like the oil is comming from the crank or the oil pan area, on the right side of the engine block(passanger side)? Any thoughts if its due to crank whip?
Roz
3.0 SVT hybrid...all the fixens...Track/Race ready very soon!!!!!! 20,000 + miles
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 4,693
Hard-core CEG'er
|
|
Hard-core CEG'er
Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 4,693 |
Crank whip won't effect the gaskets.
You might have an oil pan gasket leaking, but before getting into it, try cleaning the oil with a good degreaser. Oil spilled from changing the oil filter runs back along the top on the pan gasket flange of the block. It can run past the front of the engine by the front crank seal and look all the world like the pan gasket is leaking. I have cleaned many of these up to reveal that there were no leaks, only spilled oil.
Jim Johnson
98 SVT
03 Escape Limited
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jun 2000
Posts: 494
CEG\'er
|
|
CEG\'er
Joined: Jun 2000
Posts: 494 |
Well...I just replaced my oil pan gasket, trust me...you'll know when it's leaking. Like big jim said...clean it off then check it out after a few days, if it's leaking.....you'll know. I don't think that your oil caused the leak, the gasket wearing out caused the leak!!
2000 WS6 Convertible A4 13.11 @ 107.5 with a lid, Ram Air and LTs
Gone:95 Mystique LS Young America edition V6, MTX 15.6 @ 91
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 3,506
Hard-core CEG'er
|
|
OP
Hard-core CEG'er
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 3,506 |
OH, I know the oil is not the culprit, in my last statement if you read, the sythetic cleaned out my system. What i ment is that it got rid of all the Dino oil deposits, thus showing me a possible leak or weakness in one of the gaskets...Sorry if I didn't make myself clear.
Roz
3.0 SVT hybrid...all the fixens...Track/Race ready very soon!!!!!! 20,000 + miles
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 365
CEG\'er
|
|
CEG\'er
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 365 |
Originally posted by mcgainer:
Originally posted by Thuundar80530:
Get out of the 60s, and into the next century.
Riiiiiiiiiiight...next thing you'll be telling us is that Fuel Injection is better than my Holley Double Pumper...
Yes, it is. For the daily-driver, non-racing machines most of us own, fuel injection is superior in every way to the Holley-fied ways of yesteryear.
|
|
|
|
|
