Contour Enthusiasts Group Archives Forums Modifications Audio Max wattage poll

You kids with your big stereos I just replaced my factory radio with a JVC Dignifine, so I'm pushin' a solid 200w max, ~100 or so RMS.

Here's a smiley summary of this thread:

That last ones are me when I tried to follow the discussion!

Dude,,,stop making blanket statements about car audio....and what we know and dont know....I really dont care what you know,,,the problem is that your a pompous A$$ Hole. My Lambda Acoustics sun goes deep enough to reproduce accurately all that I need.

Your talk is just about what someone with boutique speakers would say to someone that has Paradigm or PSB...those should suck nuts compared to the expensive ones?

So if there are drastic differences in Home audio setups,,,whats the big deal having differences between home and car audio anyway....

I don't have time to post anything detailed right now, I can only say that you obviously have never heard a good car audio system, and you have not heard close to the best in home audio subwoofer systems if you consider the sunfire near the top. It will play as loud as 3 15s that are not good subs, but there are a number of 125.00-150.00 15 subs that will have more output.

There are no quality differences between JM Lab and Focal Audiom. You say there is documented differences. Prove it. I will leave it at that.

I can honestly say that you have argued with less knowledge for a longer period of time than just about any other poster I have come across.

Betcha these play lower than your tiny 8" mini, *cough*wussy sized woofer. By the way they are Car Audio Subs


pssst - it plays linear down to 9hz

I go away for a few weeks and all hell breaks loose here, dammit dave clean house!

And whats this about expensive rca's and speaker cable I hear This puppy is wired with lamp cord.

Back to the subject (which one, I dont know) Why do people think that Car Audio Product are just for your car? Oh no, I put my home cables in my car, I am going to hell...

Contour Driver SE- You say you have never heard a good car system. Let me ask you of the ones you have heard, did they ever compete and win a real trophy at a real show? I have sat in hundreds of cars, every owner says they have the BEST system. Most sound average, some down right terrible. But a good system is acheivable in a car. You mention low bass, acoustically cars enhance bass. Some enviroments do not have the same properties resulting in undesired boostings of other frequencies. That is what makes car audio a challenge.

Any one can go buy top dollar components, put'em in their home and *poof* beautiful music. A talened audio nut can do this same thing with their car. It just takes more time and skill.

The guy that dislikes bridging- Please explain, double the power, distortion is still way under 0.1 (unless running the Kmart special) so there's no harm. Personally if you ever had the chance to run one amp per speaker or door (this requires bridging ) You will hear much better stereo seperation and better imaging. Amps that are self bridging (meaning they have no push botton for bridge circuit) often have poor seperation and crosstalk.

So then do you have your gain up all the way to max (250mV) on your non bridged amp with like a 4V preamp output? (I wont start on the proper gain settings, its a pet peeve of mine)

As you noticed i haven't jumped in this debate yet. But I've decided to put in my .02 .

Contour SE driver, have you actually sat in a car with a top notch system? I'm not talking about with expensive equipment, but one that has been set up to drop jaws in competitions? There are a couple of Contour drivers here that have such awsome systems they're in magazines. Try sitting in their cars. You will learn that it's not about what the crap you got in your car, but how've you've set them up. You'll be amazed at how well systems can sound if done right. A lot of people actually rather do car audio setups, than do home audio. Mainly because it's a much greater challenge to accomplish such high standards. Believe it or not, these car audio systems will equal those of home audio.

You're talking about a sub that will play down to 20hz... who cares? It's at the point where our ears will barely hear it. Will you be listening to a track that plays nothing but 20hz all day long? Sure it's nice to know a sub has a low frequency extension, but if it's just bass you're looking for, then it's not really music?

Anyways, try going to a car audio competition, and sit inside some of the top cars. I'm sure you won't be blabbing your mouth away. I've been doing car audio for about 6 years now, and a little bit of home audio. Home audio is a whole lot less challenging. It's still fun to do, but just doesn't erupt my volcano. Dude.. try fixing your hemroid problem before typing. You're making yourself an ass. It was misinformation from people like you that made me spend over 5k on my car audio system, when i realized i could've spend less than 1k, and had it sound even better. Dave is one of them that actually gave me a lot of knowledge to make my car one of the best sounding ones on this puny island called Maui.

Originally posted by KnuKonceptz:

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Betcha these play lower than your tiny 8" mini, *cough*wussy sized woofer. By the way they are Car Audio Subs

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That is one hell of a sub cabinet you have there! What kind of amp is driving that beast?

Again you back your argument saying "the guy in the audio shop said" Well no [censored], he sells the stuff. You really are daft aren't you? You say you listened to the JL sub in and it was better than your sub? Maybe because you own it? Kind of like how some people are convinced the car they own is and always will be the greatest thing ever built. Step into reality man!

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whan i listened to that jl sub it does not sound as deep as a sunfire. how can anyone dismiss this?? no one here has taken a listen to these yet you all are talking like you have. what have i said can be proven wrong? for example, the basslink claims 20hz, hahaha thats a joke, it stumbles on 30.

We can dismiss it because it merely your opinion which right now means about as much to people here as me farting, only my farts aren't as full of [censored] as you. We can't prove you wrong, as even if we did you wouldn't accept our mere "facts" against your opinion. Silly us for trying to educate you right?

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there you go again dave, spewing the obvious, of course ported makes a difference, they can be tuned also, ever notice the golf ball looking dimples in them these days? to reduce chuffing, how about the front baffle? rounded too to prevent port noise. i can say the car crap that i have heard sealed or not is crap compared to home.

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I have a PB15 in a sealed box in the Focus. If you listened to it you would look like a retard if afterwards you calle dit crap. I'll use your own horrible argument against you here. I claim that my PB15 sounds better than anything in the entire universe. You can't say I'm wrong as you never heard it. Until you hear it you must accept my statement as true. That's what you are expecting of us isn't it?

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did you know some speakers are not built to be sealed? are you familiar with earthquake from car to home. it is written documentation that focal is lesser quality then jm lab so what the hell are you making up?

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You speak of Dave spewing the obvious, then make this statement? Can you not hold a thought for over a second? Also, besides what you just wrote, show me where that was written. Seriously, it would be nice to see.

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the sales rep told me this was the box for it. all this i know what im talking about isnt [censored]. i know what i heard and its different from the trash im hearing here from you nonexperienced fools. dave the dumbass, mcintosh for their car amps say in literature that no specs change when bridged, but you say they do, well theres proof. headphones at 20hz, hahaha unless you spent at least 350, it aint happening. all the bass i have ever heard in my life is cheap ass bass. except home audio.

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You call us "nonexperienced" yet all you have for credentials is that you bought a sub and like it. You also note you've heard different subs in different stores. Good for you! So have I, I have also wandered into stereo shops (both home and car audio locations, not just car audio and listened to what I could. I notice a funny thing though. While home audio locations usually have acoustically seperated rooms to listen to the systems without the ambient noise, the locations with the JL subs among others have everything crammed into a wall in an open environment where every sound made from every persom in the room interferes. I love your comparisson method, really accurate! BTW my headphones were $138 CDN and can play 20 HZ (I have a test tone generator on the computer, so yes, I can say it was a 20Hz tone) And I will once again remind you the subwoofer in my car sounds anything but cheap.

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good analogy considering you have no idea on this subject. dave hasnt proven anything, i know what i heard and what i hear at home car audio sucks nuts. teahs spec and references? how about anyone here to actually take the challange and listen for your self. there is 30hz and there is 30hz.

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I am begining to think you may not be a car audio fan... I think you can't read the specs and it's pissing you off so you are falling back on "My hearing is more precise than any testing instruments" which obviously is not even a real argument. And please try to come up with something a little more clever than "sucks nuts". It isn't helping to make you seem any more intelligent. Just a thought

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my problem with some car audio, i have heard some trash and thats where it should be, the over amplification of higher frequencies masking the lowers, i have heard this myself. ohh man i couldnt wait to get home to drain out the mess i heard. i have heard 1 car stero with actual good bass in my life the rest was the 40hz and up trash bass. you say i always mention 20hz, thats because thats what impresses me, not 40 which any speaker can do but 20hz. it is very difficult for any speaker to do 20 with the exact same db as 50hz. im saying truly flat, the sunfire was measured down to 18 with i believe +-2 so the junior is not the same.

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You have heard trash, well hooray, now find some good car setups and listen to them. A well setup system does not have all your listed problems. I am curious though, you seem to think that any bass played above 20Hz is a horrible thing, so what music do you listen to? You may be surprised to know that if you set your crossover higher than 20Hz and hook up some speakers along with your little sub the music becomes more accurate to the original recording (you can now make out people's voices, and things like guitars now make sounds!!!). Now I'm not telling you to set the sub at 600Hz or anything, you can stay at a lower level, but do give it a try!

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max wattage, excursion, boxes, etc aside....all else equal it is very hard to find a 10 to do 20hz flat. this has gotten to far too, the original post was me saying home audio will stomp car auido. no matter what you say it will not happen, it will not be any different, home will sound better. i gave a challange now im waiting for volunteers to go listen.

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Um, no your original post simply said "car audio sucks nutz", a far cry from your cleaned up version. Home audio is alot easier to set up. I am going to be building my home theatre myself as soon as I can afford to do it. Until then I will stick to the car. Nobody ever told you Car audio is better than home audio. I even said so myself a couple pages back. Try reading what you are arguing against next time. Just incase you decide not to I'll say it here too.

Home audio in general sounds better than in car audio as in the home you will not have to deal with such things as speaker location (kicks or doors, either is not the perfect location, where as in your house you can put them wherever you need to) ambient noise (sit in a car on the highway, now sit in you living room, bit of a difference right?) So does this mean it's impossible for a car stereo to sound good? No, and you're an idiot for thinking so. It just means you must try really hard to get it to sound good. You just haven't found anybody that has put any effort into thier car stereo yet.

Now you have a nice day and I await your response "No you am dumb and car stereo is sucks nuts"

Damn, I forgot what was in this thread completely.

I have a Samson S1000 and have measured with a voltmeter to determine how much power my subs handling while playing a CD with a 20Hz sine wave. It is rated in the owners manual 545w rms into 4ohms. I measure 43.9v at 20Hz, obviously less current availible to provide the full output. Still, plenty of oumph for my $125 a piece drivers. In room response of about 120dB (+/-4dB) from 16Hz up to 100Hz for far less money than you spent on your amp alone. but I have not idea what the true impedence of my drivers at 20Hz. I suppose I should check that out because impedence usualyl goes up as frequency goes down when talking about this octave of material.

My receiver is rated at 90Wx5 rinto 8ohms and my front mains and center channels are 4-ohm loads. Rear are 8-ohm. I've never measured how much voltage they actually take as my ears hurt way before I could take such a measurement.

High current can suck my nuts. You've been hangin out in too many HK shops. Yes, power (which is directly related to output or loudness given the efficiency and environment transfer gain) equals voltage times current. Everyone knows VI=P from high school physics. So, what good is high current if you don't have the voltage? What good is 40w of power with high low impedance current if it still only produces 95dB in room response at 20Hz. That is hardly enough to notice, let alone feel. Just an example, though. Gotta have both.

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To me loudness and excursion mean nothing if it cant do 20hz.

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Actually, the three are closely related, as Dave gave an example. It takes a certain amount of excursion to produce a specific volume level given the efficiency of a particular driver and its impedence playing such frequency. All a speaker does is move air. The more it moves, the louder it is. Very simple concept.

If this original Sunfire driver has about 2" of one way excursion (probably is 2-way,but benefit of the doubt), that still is not much compared to the list Dave gave earlier. This is by no means accurate, but the surface area is pi times the radius squared. for an 8" driver, 4^2*pi equals about 50 square inches. A 12" is 113 square inches and 176sqin for a 15" driver. Thus 3 8" drivers would not even have the output of a single 15" given the same excursion (and availible power). There are quite a few 12-15" drivers that have a little less excursion, but can easily output 108dB, and do it lower. As Dave has been trying to get through to you, the Sunfire in question has an F3 at 25Hz and 108dB in room. I hate in room responses because no one has the same room as the next person. I figure that means closer to 105dB at 25Hz, and more like 102dB at 20Hz. While it may be heard, a step into my room (or my brother's or thousands of other peoples and probably one of your neighbors) can far out produce that 20Hz response. I could easily do it when I had an old stereo receiver powering my subs, only 125w to each one.

One point I'd like to make is that may speakers can have a flat response down to 20Hz or lower, but if it either does not have the excursion and cannot take the power, it is uselss for reproducing a material in that frequency range.

Aaron

dave said

"Here is another thing you may find interesting (but will probably dismiss as merely physics). In order for a 12" driver to produce 100 dB at 20 hz, it would have to move 17mm one way. In order for an 8" to produce 100dB at 20 hz, it would have to move 41mm one way. For a 5" to play 20 hz at 100 dB, it would need to be able to move 82mm one way. This was assuming a sealed box. A ported box can change things drastically. "

you know dave cone excursion is not the only component that determines how low can one go. The enclosures is very important as well. Think Bose. Transmissions line designs having very long line or enclosure length yielding compact speakers using small driver that deliver low bass. I went to the HIFi show this past May2002 at the Hilton and saw a few compact transmission line designs that gave very low extension. Yet in car audio the only discussion when it comes to a sub is normally box cubic volume.

Dave are there any car subs out there that use long snaking transmission lines to generate bass? Now since watts are cheaper these days an inefficient transmission design is more feasible I would think.

CPW,

Like I said, there are headphones that will play down to 20 hz, its just a matter of what level they play at. I don't think Bose is a good example because they don't have any substantial bass below 40 hz on any of there products.

TLs can be very good at producing very deep bass, but they need to be exceedingly long and aren't very realistic in a car. Bose did do a TL of sorts in the 93-95 RSX, but deep bass is not its strong suit.