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The Genesis 1 was 160k when I heard it back in 1992. The company went out of business for a few years and came back last year. The current iteration of the Genesis 1 is 135k.

Anyway,

I think it has become clear that this guy is a hoax. I will respond to anything he posts, but purely for the entertainment of the rest of the group.

Originally posted by dnewma04:

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I will respond to anything he posts, but purely for the entertainment of the rest of the group.

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Yeah!!! [gets popcorn] munch... munch... munch...

2580 Watts, 2400 in my sub alone. Then 180 in the doors.
^
I put my Klipsch RSW-15 in the trunk with an inverter :-) Talk about bass!

Originally posted by dnewma04:

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The Genesis 1 was 160k when I heard it back in 1992. The company went out of business for a few years and came back last year. The current iteration of the Genesis 1 is 135k.

Anyway,

I think it has become clear that this guy is a hoax. I will respond to anything he posts, but purely for the entertainment of the rest of the group.

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Clearly i am a hoax huh? lets see, i can back up everything i am saying, I am not magazine racing like the rest of you.

I will say the sunire, the original true sub, has deeper bass then even the 12 inch top model sub from jl. There is no way to dispute that. To me loudness and excursion mean nothing if it cant do 20hz. You said something about cerwin vega, that brand is a serious joke. their stoker long ago took a db win, but at only 40hz. I have heard 6.5 inchers drop deeper then that, Joseph audio for one. Ever heard of N.E.A.R.? they used to use 2 5.25 to hit 20.

I find it hilarious, no one has experience yet you jump on the post like your an engineer. I would advise the two of you to actually go out and listen to some home audio, also try REL, about all their subs are around 10 inch and play 20. True i have been spoiled by home audio to never really enjoy car, but if someone in the northwest doesnt believe me, you can listen to my home then ill take you to all the local stores to back up what im saying.

Car audio cannot compete with home. Even focal, a sister company of JM Lab, doesnt use the same drivers. Focal is built to a lesser quality. Also i knew an owner of a audio shop, he told me he gave up car cause, it sucks nuts.

please reread my previous post and take a hint.

Originally posted by geoffct:

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2580 Watts, 2400 in my sub alone. Then 180 in the doors.
^
I put my Klipsch RSW-15 in the trunk with an inverter :-) Talk about bass!

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Quite impressive. You got one sub or 2?

Originally posted by contour se driver:

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To me loudness and excursion mean nothing if it cant do 20hz.

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Hey genius, even headphones can play a 20Hz signal. Granted the output at that frequency would be very low, but it's still possible.

Your posts still make absolutely no sense.

Originally posted by contour se driver:

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Originally posted by dnewma04:

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The Genesis 1 was 160k when I heard it back in 1992. The company went out of business for a few years and came back last year. The current iteration of the Genesis 1 is 135k.

Anyway,

I think it has become clear that this guy is a hoax. I will respond to anything he posts, but purely for the entertainment of the rest of the group.

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Clearly i am a hoax huh? lets see, i can back up everything i am saying, I am not magazine racing like the rest of you.[/qb]

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Please start to do so. We are anxiously awaiting something other then useless drivel.

In reply to:

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I will say the sunire, the original true sub, has deeper bass then even the 12 inch top model sub from jl.

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And you say this with no technological knowledge of either. Good for you, you once again prove your blatant disregard for the laws of physics.

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There is no way to dispute that. To me loudness and excursion mean nothing if it cant do 20hz.

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I have a pair of headphones that will produce 20 hz. If loudness means nothing, you can get virtually any driver to produce 20 hz. I can absolutely dispute your claims that a sunfire goes lower than the JL. The original Sunfire True Subwoofer, now dubbed the Sunfire JR, has an in room F3 of 25 hz. (F3 is the point where the response of the driver drops 3 dB and is pretty well regarded as the low end output of a given driver/enclosure alignment) A JL Audio 12W7 (their top of the line 12) in a 97 liter enclosure tuned to 20 hz gives it an anechoic (neutral environment with no transfer function) F3 of 21 hz. At the same time it is producing 114 dB with the same power that is allowing the Sunfire to reach 108 dB in room with a much easier 25 hz freq to reproduce. If the sunfire had the mechanical/thermal abilities to handle it, it would take 4800w to equal the output of the JL with 1200w. That doesn't even take into account that the power compression levels of the JL are virtually zero and would be noticeable with the Sunfire based on TC Sound's other designs.

Here is another thing you may find interesting (but will probably dismiss as merely physics). In order for a 12" driver to produce 100 dB at 20 hz, it would have to move 17mm one way. In order for an 8" to produce 100dB at 20 hz, it would have to move 41mm one way. For a 5" to play 20 hz at 100 dB, it would need to be able to move 82mm one way. This was assuming a sealed box. A ported box can change things drastically.

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You said something about cerwin vega, that brand is a serious joke. their stoker long ago took a db win, but at only 40hz. I have heard 6.5 inchers drop deeper then that, Joseph audio for one. Ever heard of N.E.A.R.? they used to use 2 5.25 to hit 20.

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CV has been a serious player in the pro-audio industry for a few decades. The original Strokers were playing 20 hz bass 2 decades ago. They aren't the class of the car audio world, but the strokers have made a major impact in every application they have been marketed in. I never mentioned SPL comps. These competition have no intention of preserving musical accuracy. They are meant to see who can get the loudest at any freq below a certain cutoff (most of the organizations use 80 hz or below). Again, your point is irrelevant. At what level are the N.E.A.R. drivers producing 20 hz? Which model are you referring to? I'm sure it would be easy enough to find out the specs.

Like I said earlier, I have headphones that have measureable response down to 20hz (and below).

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I find it hilarious, no one has experience yet you jump on the post like your an engineer.

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I'm not an engineer, I am a hobbyist with 14 years of audio experience, mainly in home audio.

In reply to:

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I would advise the two of you to actually go out and listen to some home audio, also try REL, about all their subs are around 10 inch and play 20.

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I have listened to, built, designed countless speakers using anything from low end drivers to some of the best on the market. No one is arguing that a given driver is producing 20 hz, yet you are dismissing car audio products, in general, as not being able to produce 20 hz signals.

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True i have been spoiled by home audio to never really enjoy car, but if someone in the northwest doesnt believe me, you can listen to my home then ill take you to all the local stores to back up what im saying.

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Great! I, too, have been spoiled by home audio. There are some excellent products in all forms of audio. I just would never be so naive to dismiss one form of audio as "sucking nuts" because it would make me sound like a uneducated, naive, immature 15 year old.

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Car audio cannot compete with home. Even focal, a sister company of JM Lab, doesnt use the same drivers. Focal is built to a lesser quality. Also i knew an owner of a audio shop, he told me he gave up car cause, it sucks nuts.

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The home environment has obvious advantageous with issues like dealing with reflections, proper imaging and sound staging. But car audio has serious advantageous in bass reproduction. Far more money is being spent on car audio in recent years than there is money being spent on home audio speaker development. Luckily for home audio, some of the technology is being incorporated into the home audio field. For example, Adire Audio's XBL^2 motor design shows a great deal of promise in home audio apps even though it was introduced on the Brahma car audio subwoofer.

Focal's Audiom series of drivers were derived from the JMLabs Utopia drivers and I can promise they are made with the same quality as the JMlabs. Focal has a few different series of drivers ranging from affordable to elite.

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please reread my previous post and take a hint.

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I have read all I need to know to determine that you have pretty limited technical experience and don't have the intellectual capacity to back up any of your claims with facts.

The Klipsch sub that was mentioned has 650w with an amplifier that is capable of 2400w bursts. This is equivalent to quoting max power.

It's interesting that Klipsch says that their 15" sub with a 15" PR has more surface area than a 21" conventional subwoofer.

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The RSW-15 surpasses the performance of a conventional 21" single-driver subwoofer through intelligent engineering. Pairing a heart-throbbing 15" rear-firing Cerametallicâ?¢ active driver with a 3-inch voice coil and 30-pound motor assembly with a 15" front-firing passive radiator gives you more surface area than a 21" subwoofer in a much smaller footprint.

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It almost seams like they think that a PR should count as an active radiating surface rather than a resonator. This would be equivalent to counting port area to driver size. I am ashamed of Klipsch for such blatant misinformation.

You should probably consider giving this up man. You are obviously outclassed here. Let it go. You have gone from being seen as wrong/not very knowledgeable to just plain ignorant. You have not backed any argument with fact, just your opinion (which is wrong). Meanwhile Dave has brought specs, references, and technical explanations to his side of the argument. You can't win, it just isn't possible (although it is highly entertaining) This is about the same as watching a Focus race a Twin Turbo Corvette. You feel sorry for the Focus as it is the second slowest car ever built and it's trying it's best to beat a 650hp beast. Do you get what I'm saying? You are the Focus, Dave is the Vette. You lose. It is highly entertaining much like that race would be, but I think it would get boring to watch the Focus get beat down after a few tries. Keep trying though lil' guy

Originally posted by Honkeytonk Monkey:

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You should probably consider giving this up man. You are obviously outclassed here. Let it go. You have gone from being seen as wrong/not very knowledgeable to just plain ignorant. You have not backed any argument with fact, just your opinion (which is wrong). Meanwhile Dave has brought specs, references, and technical explanations to his side of the argument. You can't win, it just isn't possible (although it is highly entertaining) This is about the same as watching a Focus race a Twin Turbo Corvette. You feel sorry for the Focus as it is the second slowest car ever built and it's trying it's best to beat a 650hp beast. Do you get what I'm saying? You are the Focus, Dave is the Vette. You lose. It is highly entertaining much like that race would be, but I think it would get boring to watch the Focus get beat down after a few tries. Keep trying though lil' guy

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see what i mean, the average dumbass jumping in and has no clue, dave i have actually listened to all this stuff i speak of, i know what i heard. the true sub cannot be a junior, it was made before junior was even invented. it has a 8" cone with surrounds making it about 10, as far as excursion goes, it has plenty i believe about 2 inches.
supposedly pushes as much as 3 15's.

whan i listened to that jl sub it does not sound as deep as a sunfire. how can anyone dismiss this?? no one here has taken a listen to these yet you all are talking like you have. what have i said can be proven wrong? for example, the basslink claims 20hz, hahaha thats a joke, it stumbles on 30.

there you go again dave, spewing the obvious, of course ported makes a difference, they can be tuned also, ever notice the golf ball looking dimples in them these days? to reduce chuffing, how about the front baffle? rounded too to prevent port noise. i can say the car crap that i have heard sealed or not is crap compared to home.

did you know some speakers are not built to be sealed? are you familiar with earthquake from car to home. it is written documentation that focal is lesser quality then jm lab so what the hell are you making up?

if anybody in the everett area thinks im telling a tale, take a bass mechanic cd play it at 20hz, store locations are car toys toward the end of everett mall way, and the magnolia just a tick up the street from the mall. car toys has the 12 ws7 and magnolia carries rel and sunfire. pop that disk in and tell me which one sounds deeper then come back here and post what you heard. not loudness but depth of 20hz and compare it to the loudness of 40hz ill bet you the ws7 will drop off. all eq's off bass and treble centered, loudness off.

the sales rep told me this was the box for it. all this i know what im talking about isnt [censored]. i know what i heard and its different from the trash im hearing here from you nonexperienced fools. dave the dumbass, mcintosh for their car amps say in literature that no specs change when bridged, but you say they do, well theres proof. headphones at 20hz, hahaha unless you spent at least 350, it aint happening. all the bass i have ever heard in my life is cheap ass bass. except home audio.

good analogy considering you have no idea on this subject. dave hasnt proven anything, i know what i heard and what i hear at home car audio sucks nuts. teahs spec and references? how about anyone here to actually take the challange and listen for your self. there is 30hz and there is 30hz.

my problem with some car audio, i have heard some trash and thats where it should be, the over amplification of higher frequencies masking the lowers, i have heard this myself. ohh man i couldnt wait to get home to drain out the mess i heard. i have heard 1 car stero with actual good bass in my life the rest was the 40hz and up trash bass. you say i always mention 20hz, thats because thats what impresses me, not 40 which any speaker can do but 20hz. it is very difficult for any speaker to do 20 with the exact same db as 50hz. im saying truly flat, the sunfire was measured down to 18 with i believe +-2 so the junior is not the same.

max wattage, excursion, boxes, etc aside....all else equal it is very hard to find a 10 to do 20hz flat. this has gotten to far too, the original post was me saying home audio will stomp car auido. no matter what you say it will not happen, it will not be any different, home will sound better. i gave a challange now im waiting for volunteers to go listen.