Contour Enthusiasts Group Archives Forums Modifications Brakes improving emergency stop distance

Originally posted by Contouraholic:

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My 99 has Bosch ABS 5.3..I assume 2000's are the same.

In reply to:

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ABS Series: Bosch 5.3, Beyond ABS, Larry Carley, Brake & Front End, February 2001

As anti-lock brake technology continues to evolve, ABS systems are becoming more sophisticated, complicated and compact. Many systems today are capable of providing stability control, as well as traction control, and some have also taken over the job of handling front-to-rear brake proportioning. The Bosch 5.3 ABS system fits this description.

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Thats why the recall only included non-ABS (late model)Contours. No mech. Prop. valve on ABS models. I bet the SVT E1 has it. From a money standpoint, cheaper to use Bosch than a separate system or device.

I know I read we have EBD somewhere else, but I can't seem to put my finger on it. I'll keep looking, but not too hard.

1999 seems to be the year that EBD was introduced. Seen an article on the 1999 Cougar that mentioned it. I have Traction Control too, which isn't/wasn't available on CSVTs.

I am sure someone in this group has some inside info source at Ford and can get a definitive answer on this...

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My 98.5 E1 has EBD. Just an FYI

Keep in mind even F1 drivers use TC and ABS in their race cars... the point I was making is that the TC they use is so darn expensive (read MANY times the cost of our cars) and is so customized that 'normal' drivers like us would never find the limits.

I never said bad drivers need TC or ABS, but I said my kids will have at least ABS.. if not some sort of Stbility control as well (my kids are young so that sort of thing will be common by the time they start driving)

With the king of HP and sensitive handling of F1 cars, human responses probably aren't fast enough. Like some of our Jet Fighters that are inherently unstable and can only be fly by wire. Also, isn't F1 using clutchless shifting with paddles for shifting on the steering wheels?

I have ABS and TC, and I use them. But I don't need them. some respondents said they would never drive without them, considering their skill level, they shouldn't drive without them.

Another point is, though, few people develop driving skills because they are not used as much. Pays to turn off the help and learn to drive once in a while.

Originally posted by Contouraholic:

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I find it interesting that Mercedes has added some programming to add full brake application pressure to emergency braking (via the ABS pump) because some people with ABS aren't pushing the peddle hard enough. Even ABS takes a little skill.

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This is because the people who own vehicles with ABS, aren't told by their dealers
that they NEED to practice stopping with the ABS system in their cars,
to become accustomed to how it feels.

They are still pumping the pedal, like the old braking system !

When I worked at a Buick Dealer, we would take the customers out to a big and emtpy parking lot
and let them feel what ABS activation felt like.

If you NEVER have an emergency stop,
and you NEVER have any experience
using the equipment you have,
then how can you use it safely ?

Invoking ABS training should be part of a defensive driving course,
as well as delivery of an ABS equipped vehicle.

I'm surprised Ford dosen't have ABS standard on their vehicles. GM has had ABS standard on even the Cavalier since 1992 (even though ABS is optional on the Impala, while STILL standard on Cavalier, Malibu, etc...) I remember I read a few weeks ago Ford's reason for NOT having it standard; Texas didn't need it. It's the only thing I've heard where minority rules 49:1. Ford should have ABS standard on ALL models, even the Focus LX. Even if it is optional, pay the $500 and get it. $500 is a small price considering on what you pay for body work these days, even if you only use ABS once, it'll pay for itself.

Originally posted by RoadRunner:

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Originally posted by Contouraholic:

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I find it interesting that Mercedes has added some programming to add full brake application pressure to emergency braking (via the ABS pump) because some people with ABS aren't pushing the peddle hard enough. Even ABS takes a little skill.

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This is because the people who own vehicles with ABS, aren't told by their dealers
that they NEED to practice stopping with the ABS system in their cars,
to become accustomed to how it feels.

They are still pumping the pedal, like the old braking system !

When I worked at a Buick Dealer, we would take the customers out to a big and emtpy parking lot
and let them feel what ABS activation felt like.

If you NEVER have an emergency stop,
and you NEVER have any experience
using the equipment you have,
then how can you use it safely ?

Invoking ABS training should be part of a defensive driving course,
as well as delivery of an ABS equipped vehicle.

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I agree the dealers don't explain operation of the car, but, there is an owners manual on a new car. I read mine!

Plus, I go to empty parking lots, deserted areas and explore the cars limits in a safe way. I don't like discovering the handling quirks of a car when I am in the middle of avoiding contact with a jack-knifing tractor trailer.

There are a lot of crutches for people who don't want to take a little responsibility for their life. Air bags are an example. If we really wanted crash protection, H harnesses will do quite nicely, but our world needs passive devices because so many are too lazy to buckle up. Air bags are dangerous to children, but people put their kids in the front seat despite all the warnings. You ever see the warnings on a hair dryer? don't use under water, don't use while asleep....

We design products more and more for morons (a little alliteration there):D)

Oh well, I guess I am glad some people have ABS because they don't know how to work the brakes. !

TedS,

In reply to:

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Keep in mind even F1 drivers use TC and ABS in their race cars... the point I was making is that the TC they use is so darn expensive (read MANY times the cost of our cars)

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Not quite true. ABS has been outlawed in F1 for quite a few years. TC is used, but most of the cost and work is involved in the development of the strategy for it, not in the actual hardware. F1 cars simply use an ignition stutter setup for traction control (you can hear it when somebody gets on it a little too hard.

RoadRunner,

In reply to:

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This is because the people who own vehicles with ABS, aren't told by their dealers
that they NEED to practice stopping with the ABS system in their cars,
to become accustomed to how it feels.

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No, this is incorrect, it is because in a panic situation, people tend to hit the pedal quickly, but not press it hard enough to get into ABS, hence the mechanical/electronic assist into getting max braking in a panic stop.

In reply to:

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They are still pumping the pedal, like the old braking system !

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Many folks can modulate better than current production ABS units (read threshold braking) by pumping the pedal.

Cool Blue Mystique,

In reply to:

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I'm surprised Ford dosen't have ABS standard on their vehicles.

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If I don't want or need something, I sure as heck don't want to be forced to pay for it. There are many situations where someone can be better off not having ABS (though I can't imagine you personally being in any of these situations . . .) And it definately doesn't preclude ANYONE from ordering an ABS equipped vehicle if that's what they want. Your comparison is almost like someone claiming that Ford never should have offered a Zetec powered Contour, and that they should have just made all of the customers pay for the duratech. While most folks would have loved it, it doesn't suit everyone's needs.
I guess ignorance is bliss.

Like I said before, all mechanical/electronic braking/handling aids, like ABS/TC/IVD/Panic Assist, etc. ad nauseum, are SAFETY NETS and NOT hammocks. Don't rely on them, learn to get by without them, and if ABS or TC or IVD or Panic Assist saves your arse one day, be thankful you had the safety net. But if you ever have a system failure, or ar driving a car without them, you are completely screwed if you don't know how to deal w/ it.

Tightening the nut behind the wheel, will improve every car you ever drive.

In reply to:

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Tightening the nut behind the wheel, will improve every car you ever drive.

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Word!!!

I think tires are more important than everything else. I was just trying to save a few bucks and almost ended up losing a front end.

To the person (persons) who recommended threshold braking...when you're driving 70 in the freeway and an animal bolts across the road infront of you, what do your instincts tell you to do? Pump the brakes? I think not!