Contour Enthusiasts Group Archives Forums Modifications Duratec Maintenance 2.5L running 5W-20.

Has anyone else heard of Ford now recommending running 5W-20 in 2.5L without any problems and in fact adding a couple of horses?

I'd personally rather take the extra protection at high rpms then the extra few tenths of MPG or HP/TQ.

Besides Mobil 1 5W30 (or any synthetic) will already have less parasitic loss then any conventional or semi-synth 5W20 will.

I ran 0W-30 synthetic in my 'tour last time, has anyone else used this(Mobil one. fully syn.)?? Just wondering. It should kill start-up wear even more so.

Let me put it this way: when I changed the oil in mom's 01 ZX3, I used Mobil 1 5W-30 even though it came factory filled with Motorcraft 5W-20.

Ford is using the 5W-20 to improve CAFE averages and sell more oil - I'm not sure any other brand has a 5W-20 on the market yet, but I see Motorcraft 5W-20 on the shelves in some places.

It is my opinion that this is at the cost of long term reliability, so I'm not buying.

We use 5w-20 oil made by Noco, and we charge $5 extra.

Ford has published a chart for the dealers with their latest recommendations on oil viscosity. It is true that they recommend 5/20 on all Duratec engines. If you have had your oil changed recently in a Ford dealership it is very likely that they used 5/20. There are not very many engines in the Ford product line built in the last 10 years that are not on the 5/20 list (a noticable exception is the Focus SVT).

Although I am not aware of any problems from using the new oil, I'm also a little gun shy. I still use 5/30 in mine.

For what it is worth, the Motorcraft 5/20 is a synthetic blend (semi synthetic?) while the Motorcraft 5/30 is not.

I've seen 5W-20 in almost all parts stores now. Its not a synthetic blend(unless thats what you want, its availible). ITs availible from most oil manufacturers. The Duratec was designed to run a light oil, and i think this change was due to cold start wear. I used to get alot of cam noise starting up every morning for about 4-5 sec. until the oil got up there, i think the thinner oil should cut that time down to just a sec or two.

5W-20 has no more or less protection than 5W-30. The last number only deals with viscosity at LOWER temperatures. High revs have nothing to do with it. However, a cold engine has more HP with 5W-20 because the crank can sling it around easier.

I wouldn't run 0W-30 in anything I owned unless i lived in Alaska. Thats running too dangerously thin an oil. Good luck on engine longevity.

Originally posted by ajdulina:

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I used to get alot of cam noise starting up every morning for about 4-5 sec. until the oil got up there, i think the thinner oil should cut that time down to just a sec or two.

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What oil filter are you using?

Originally posted by ajdulina:

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5W-20 has no more or less protection than 5W-30. The last number only deals with viscosity at LOWER temperatures. High revs have nothing to do with it. However, a cold engine has more HP with 5W-20 because the crank can sling it around easier.

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I suggest you read up a bit.

The first number is the oils weight at 0 degrees

The second number is the oils weight at operating temperature (210 degres)

The small the number the thinner (less protection, but better flowability) the oil has.

Also the stock oil pump has no problem flowing all the oil (5W30) out of the pan as is at high rpms.

My advice is to skip the thinner oil and stick with a true full synthetic like Mobil 1.

Not that it's true being both oils share the same weight when cold (5), but why would it matter if the engine had more HP when it's cold. You NEVER race an engine or put it under heavy load when it is not properly warmed up. That's a quick and sure fire way to shorten the life of your engine!

I know what i'm talkin about.
I would suggest you real aliitle too.
The number have nothing to do with oil weight. Those numbers are the SAE standard for oils viscostiy. 0W-30 is darn near water and has little to no protection during startup. You are correct that the first number is for 0degF and the second is for operating temp(212F). I would suggest going back to the 5w catagory while your connecting rods still have a journal. Your operating temp is still the SAE 30 rating and you have nothing to gain by putting in a 0W oil. I meant to say that you get more HP all around rather than a cold engine. The lower SAE 20 rating allows the oil to be thinner without sacrificing viscosity during startup. It allows the oil to breakdown at a lower temp but my engine doesn't get that high anyway.

What would you all say to a 5W-50 synthetic? I put it into a high millage car before with no regrets and wanted to do the same for the 2.5 now.

For 1 - I run Mobil 1 5W30 (previously recommend by myself)

For 2 - less viscosity = less protection & you yourself stated a 20 oil has less viscosity (I.E. thinner) than a 30 oil. Which is exactly the point of my post.

Your original post said a 5W20 oil and a 5W30 oil are indentical at operating temps. I.E. "the last number only deals with visocity at "LOWER" temperature - high REV's have nothing to do with it."
Which is incorrect! You even corrected yourself in your last post by stating the second number IS at higher temps (operating temp - 210d)
Also high rev's are where you encounter the worst thermal breakdown, cylinder pressures, plain old high speed moving parts (high revolutions!) and where an oil's viscosity is key to preventing damage and high wear!

So I definitely stand by my original post. What do you stand by?

Also; again... What oil filter do you use?

Well, then if 0W30 is thinner, then it would offer better protection @ startup just for that reason, because it can circulate through the engine quicker, at least this is my understanding of it, which came from quite a good source. I'm open to an explanation of exactly why it would be worse at startup, and thus would happily go back to 5W30. Anyone want to explain this one to me?

IMHO there is little difference in normal operating temp between 0W30 and 5W30 Mobil 1.

The big deal is the modifiers used to get the larger difference in viscosity.

I have run 0W30 Mobil 1 in contours before. I would also consider a 5W20 Mobil 1 or 0W20 Mobil 1 for the winter. Where I live that would be too thin for the summer time.

For the track I would run a straight 30 weight oil like Redline or MAYBE a 10W30.

I wouldn't run any 50 weight oil in a duratec. I have this argument with my father in law all the time.

He has a SBC in a pickup that he runs 20W50 in. The engine has 150K miles on it, leaks like a holy bucket and runs like crap.

He had to rebuild his Stratus' engine due to oil related failure... why? he put 20W50 in it in October and didn't change it until April... startups were hell on that poor car.

My Maxima has 273K miles on it and runs 5W30 just fine it doesn't leak any oil and runs perfectly fine.

My contour has whatever the dealer put in it (I purchased it used and will be putting Mobil1 5W30 in it within the next 2 weeks.

Just for clairifcation

First number = cold viscosity
Second number = hot viscosity

The big problem is when the numbers are too far apart in dino oils... 0W30 and 5W20 oils should be just fine for a duratec that isn't on a racetrack.

Originally posted by ajdulina:

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I've seen 5W-20 in almost all parts stores now. Its not a synthetic blend(unless thats what you want, its availible). ITs availible from most oil manufacturers. The Duratec was designed to run a light oil, and i think this change was due to cold start wear. I used to get alot of cam noise starting up every morning for about 4-5 sec. until the oil got up there, i think the thinner oil should cut that time down to just a sec or two.

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Motorcraft claims their oil is a synthetic blend. It says so predominately on the bottle. I don't know if other oil companies also make that claim (I doubt it).

I know this seems to go against the prevailing religion in this group but I would not expect to keep a 7000 RPM street motor together and healthy for the long run by using a 5-30 oil, synthetic or conventional. I have been a strong proponent of using Mobil 1 0-40 oil in todays high performance engines (just as Porche, BMW & MB currently do). Before you guys tell me how �??thick�?� it is, take a look at a few sources of information.
http://www.epa.gov/otaq/cert/dearmfr/ccd0112.pdf
The above is an interesting government publication showing the �??guidance�?� the feds give the auto and oil industries which mandates 5-20 wt. Oil. The same �??guidance�?� was issued some years ago concerning 5-30. This is not a suggestion from an automotive engineer concerned with engine life, it is a directive from a Federal agency concerned with forcing us to get one tenth of one MPG better fuel consumption at the expense of engine life.
Spend some time on the Euro and Australian web sites of the auto and oil companies and see what you find when they can talk without worring about EPA guidlines.
The Euro Castrol site has an oil selector page. It specifies 10-40 or 15-40 for the Mondeo.
There are several instances of referring to 10-40 as a �??lighter weight�?� viscosity here.
Mobil Australia has the same type of oil selector guide on their site. Even though there is a footnote indicating Ford reccommends 5-30, Mobil then specifies 0-40 as the oil to use in the Mondeo.
You all might consider an upgrade from 5-30 oil if you participate in �??spirited�?� motoring with your Contours.

And for all you guys that are unsure of the difference between SAE grades and how much difference there really is between the various multi weights, request temp-viscosity graphs from one of the oil manufacturers tech groups and check out the actual cP figures for real world temps between 20 deg F and 230 deg F. Like they say - a picture is worth........

Thing is I can't find 0W40 anywhere... so 5W30 or 0W30 are pretty much the next best thing..

Mark I agree with you to some extent.

Also the proper "European" oil is 5W40.

The only problem I see arise with that is when I asked Mobil about which of their synthetic oils contained viscosity index improvers (not good for high rpms) and mainly gearing it towards their 0W30, 5W30, & 5W40 selection.
All they sent back was that their 5W30 did not use any?
Now they didn't say the 5W40 did, but they said the 0W30 did. Maybe whoever answered my question just didn't know about the 5W40 since they omitted the answer, but it put enough doubt in my mind to not switch to it for the summer.

Also I do routine oil analysis of my oil (Mobil 1 5W30) and the SUS viscosity (@210d), even after ~4k miles/4 months, is well above the average for a synthetic and miles above any conventional oil & the contaminents are well below either. This shows my filtering (K&N for both air & oil) & the oil's anti-wear characteristics are great.
So I am not too worried about it breaking down & if it can withstand my constant abuse it surely can take anyone elses...

I guess if your are serious enough about the subject to do oil analysis, you've seen www.BobIsTheOilGuy.com which is a good info resource.

According to Mobil when they addressed the issue, Mobil 1 needs far less viscosity improvers than conventional oil and that it is basicly impossible to "shear down" Mobil 1 during the use it gets in an engine. So I figure why not take advantage of the technology since I'm spending extra for synthetic in the first place and get the wider spread.
If I went back to conventional I think I would use 10-40. I had been using 5-30 in my new 2000 SE Sport until I started seeing the posts here about higher than expected engine failures and reading up on this stuff again in the past year.
My previous experience with 20-50 oil over the last 30 years (yikes) indicates the heavier stuff definately helps engines to stay tighter and healthier - I'm talking way over 100k miles which is pretty much a moot point these days when most guys keep cars for only a few years.

Cheers,

For those that have asked about buying 0-40.

The Mobil1 web site has previously said that 0-40 is only available at BMW, and MB dealers.( There's a clue about who thinks this is the oil to use in high output motors) My local auto parts supplier went out of his way to obtain 0-40 from his warehouse for me. That was last year. He now stocks it on the shelf because the demand is there. You might ask your local guy. In addition, Auto Zone stores in the NY metro area have begun stocking 0-40 just this past month.
If you want to "save a buck" you might email Wal Mart from their site contact point and request that they begin stocking 0-40 in 5 quart jugs. That would bring the price down to $3.58 per quart. They were pretty responsive in stocking Mobil 1, 0-30 shortly after Mobil brought that out.

Another choice you have, right at Wal-Mart. Shell Rotella T Synthetic 5W40
Basically made for OTR Trucks, but it does have the appropriate
ratings for gasoline engines as well.

Sold in 1 gallon jugs for about $12.88, IIRC.

TB

I see the error here. I meant to say the first number, not 'the last'(thinking typo). Both have the 5W rating. But i think the rest of the mechanic world would agree that almost all engine wear occurs during the first five minutes of start up. With that in mind, it depends on which end of the spectrum do you want to "thin out". I don't live in a cold enough environment to constitute the use of a 0W oil. I use the recommended oil filter for the 2.5 from Fram, don't quote me on it but off the top of my head i think its the PH2.

Duratecs are designed to run a lighter oil. I wouldn't recommend using any 50 in one.

the best 'Cheap' filter to use is the OEM Motorcraft. the PureOne filters are OK as are AC Delco (if you can find the right size)

I have used the Mobil1 filter before but am not sure it is worth the extra $$$ for street driving.

I won't use a Fram filter for anything.

Originally posted by ajdulina:

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I use the recommended oil filter for the 2.5 from Fram, don't quote me on it but off the top of my head i think its the PH2.

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...and that says it all folks...

If you are worried about engine damage at start up I'd suggest using an oil filter that has an anti-drainback valve. Instead of spending several precious seconds waiting for the oil filter to refill and then more waiting for the timing chain tensioners to tighten and then even more waiting for oil to finally reach the heads!!!

If you are worried about engine damage any other time I would use a filter that can actually filter out contaminents and also not burst under heavy load (which our oil pumps can easily manage)

FRAM is utter garbage! Great marketing department, but worthless in every other one.

Use the stock Motorcraft (actually a Pure One cartridge in a Premium case) or a K&N (only filter rated above the stock oil pumps flow rating)
Both use an excellent drainback valve design and have great filtering ability.

I've used Fram for awhile now in a couple of different engines and never had a single problem, except for getting stuck on, but what filter doesn't. I strongly suggest you re-evaluate the 'quality' of Motorcraft parts. They have given me nothing but a hassle(cheap plug wires and poor filtering) and i refuse to buy them unless i'm not given the alternative. As for the 'anitdrain', i don't want to add any flow restrictions with a gimmick just like octane booster gives you more power.

Has anyone else had a problem with oil filters bursting?

Originally posted by ajdulina:

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As for the 'anitdrain', i don't want to add any flow restrictions with a gimmick just like octane booster gives you more power.

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Not a gimmick - an important part of an oil filter. I suggest you research what an oil filter does and how it operates and the importance of an anti-drainback valve, especially before posting statements like the above or following:

Originally posted by ajdulina:

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I know what i'm talkin about.
I would suggest you real (read?) aliitle too.

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What's that famous quote? "It is better to say nothing and be thought a fool than open one's mouth and remove all doubt."

A few 'ponderings' on this subject......anti-drain back only helps if the filter mount position is above the main oil gallery & the base of the filter face upward or horiz....ALL engings on cold start up have bearings and crank in a 'metal to metal condition as the oil seeps out over night they contact,only way round this is an Accusump or a'snake oil' plating additive!!!!.....oil temp is the killer along with 'slow flo' 20W50 for example....50% of modern engine cooling is via the oil, in a DOHC motor far more 'exposed' internal casting area transfers heat to the oil vs say a pushrod engine.The Duratec raises it oil temp VERY quick....high operating oil temps,whatever grade,are death to an engine under load conditions.......my 2 1/2 cents!!!

oops, i've been using 10-30, castrol, non- synthetic, the book says no synthetic right?

Originally posted by PA 3L SVT:

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What's that famous quote? "It is better to say nothing and be thought a fool than open one's mouth and remove all doubt."

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Nail on the head.

This guy is just clueless as all get out!

As for the slam on Motorcraft FL-820S. It has the Pure One cartridge (which I previously stated) It is one of the top filtering medias on the market!

I strongly suggest you just stop while you are WAY BEHIND! I know I had no doubt from the beginning, no I doubt anyone else has any as well by now.

Originally posted by Terry Haines:

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......anti-drain back only helps if the filter mount position is above the main oil gallery & the base of the filter face upward or horiz....ALL engings on cold start up have bearings and crank in a 'metal to metal condition as the oil seeps out over night they contact,only way round this is an Accusump or a'snake oil' plating additive!!!!.....

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I couldn't agree more with that statement. So those who are just slapping one on would be the thing to do for those who think their car's fast because its got stickers all over it. I guess being ASE certified doesn't count for anything. At least I don't force my opinions as the word of god and ridicule people for such a small thing as a typo. Younz can all do as you please, i know how my motor is going to last.
Hmm...the last time i looked at a duratec, the oil filter isn't upside-down, is it? yea, your a bright one and i'm the one who's behind.

Dude...
the FRAM filters have been proven to come apart, clog early, and are just plain crap.

once upon a time Fram was a good name but not anymore

the Motorcraft filter is the *SAME* price, is rated very well and is a good filter.

I suggest that you do a little reading about oil filters.

http://www.dorianyeager.com/oilfilterstudy1.html

http://www.shoclub.com/lubrication-oil/lubrication-oilpart5.htm

I stick by my guns when it comes to my oil and oil filter choices

Mobil 1 5W30 for the street with a AC Delco filter on my GM cars and a Motorcraft Filter for my Fords.

IF the Mobil1 filter is on sale I will go ahead and get that instead as it is a better filter.

OK guys its 'Test Time'...if two of you can agree to do it. Take two filters say 'Brand 'A' & 'Brand 'X'. Weigh each filter before fitting,run say 3,000 and remove the filter,let it drain out oil overnight then weigh it again to see the weight of the crud it has over 3,000 miles....then cut it open and examin the element.......my 2 cents...what's yours ???

Originally posted by ajdulina:

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Hmm...the last time i looked at a duratec, the oil filter isn't upside-down, is it? yea, your a bright one and i'm the one who's behind.

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...but it is sideways. Same difference for a fluid & gravity! Turn a cup sideways and see how much water stays in it.

I honestly don't know how you passed those ASE tests and still are so clueless about the way things work. Guess they must have let the standards come down in the last decade or so.

So go on using a known bad filter without a drainback valve and continue to think that a 5w20 and 5w30 are equal at operating temps, just not at startup. Obviously you must be correct. To hell with the hard data that says otherwise.

Looks like it hangs DOWN around 45-50deg from the horiz to me...fail to see how the oil can drain out in that position....

Your absolutely right. it hangs down. I guess some guys don't know which way is up. doesn't say much for intelligence, huh? i don't think that 5W-20 and 5W-30 have the same op. temps. because if you ppl. read what i wrote earlier i corrected my error by stating i meant to say the first number, not the last(brain fart). As for Fram, I've used it for ten years now without a problem and havn't heard of one till now.

sideways?!? Hey A**H*LE, are you sure you even got a Contour? I don't see you winning any certifications here. If you think ASE standards are low, they'd have to drop it another rung just for you. Don't you know which way is up? Did you miss that day in kindergarten? I work on cars as a career. what do you do? are you some shadetree mechanic who thinks he knows everything? I'm not going to continue wasting my time on someone whose's beneath me. Is there anyone out there that would like to have an INTELLIGENT conversation?

Even at a 30 degree angle (yes I agree not sideways as I just went and looked) it still will drain the majority of the oil from the filter.

Also there have been numerous documented cases of people running oil filters without an anti-drainback and having the typical noisy startup caused by lack of initial oiling. That's is extra damage & wear to the engine that does not need to happen if a proper filter is used.

As for the FRAM filters. Again it's well documented their filtering ability is on the bottom of the filter range and their track record for bursting casings and having the filter media (which is just "hot glued" on!) detach for the filter base makes for several major strikes against them. I do not fault their marketing ability, just the filtering and reliability.

As for your comments about wasting your time with someone beneath you. My mistaking the angle for the Duratec filter with the wife's Cavalier is a simple mistake. However your repetitive and blatant errors in this post are obscene. We may both be, have been (whatever), ASE certified or what not, but don't even compare yourself to me in any way. I most certainly would not compare myself to you.

So what is the verdict on the optimum oil weight and filter for OUR cars. Just curious.

5/30 oil with Motorcraft Fl 820S oil filter.

Hey, back to the old viscosity debate.
My $0.02
Some guys here agree with me but there are guys that feel strongly that even in �??sporting driving�?� conditions, the OEM 5-30 is best for modern �??small clearance�?� engines.
I have gotten great results using SAE 40 to 50 single and multi grades for 30 years (yikes) and recently switched to 0-40 Mobil-1. This seems to drive some guys nuts, and now with the advent of 5-20 OEM recommendations some consider SAE 40 or 50 molasses.
OK, I finally got around to verifying what I suggested on these boards.
Directly out of the respective Mitchell repair manuals:
Rod bearing �??oil clearance�?� specs:
All figures are in ten-thousanths inch and (mm)
1983 Mustang 5.0 liter 0.8 - 1.5 (.020 - .038)
(eng has same specs as the unit that I used to compete with in 1972 SCCA events w/ SAE 50 oil)
2000 Contour 1.1 �?? 2.5 (.028 - .064)
Decades apart yet very similar nominal rod bearing oil clearance specs. In fact according to Mitchell the newer car has more rod bearing clearance.
So much for that urban legand.
Last week I put a question to the Penzoil tech line: I have a late 90�??s car out of warranty, I want the longest engine life possible, do I use 5-30 or 15-40?
The answer from Penzoil was �?? the 15-40 will give the longest engine life.
Now all of the above is a moot point for most drivers that change cars every few years, but for what it is worth �?? they you are.

used conventional 10w30, for a couple of winters i ran the 5w30, am now changing to mobil 1 10w30 syn, car has 75 k,

any type of flush i should do?

comments on oil im using

what type of improvements can i expect to see?

Thank you for the facts. It does seem some people confuse tight "tollerances" with tight "clearances." Todays engines can be built with tighter tollerances because of modern technology. The looser clearances are used to reduce friction.

Over a year ago, similar thread, I posted my cocktail. Was mostly blown off, but now that I have at least one backer on this thread who will agree that sheering of Mobil 1 is not an issue and that viscosity improvers aren't that bad if you change your oil every 3k...
My recipe, needless to say only Mobil 1:

2.5 quarts 15W-50
3.0 quarts 0W-30

Net result:
6W-38 (roughly)

This was because I couldn't find 0W-40 in the states. Once they start selling it in Cleveland I'll switch.

Look at the clearances post, our engines are not that much tighter than what was made years ago. Yet back then, not as concerned about EPA gas mileage, a brand new engine would get 10W-30 dino. Now we're feeding 5W-30, 0W-30, 5W-20 synth?

For best engine life, your cold number should be between 0 & 10 depending on the season and where you are in North America.
Your operating temp number should be around 40 in my humble opinion. I don't have the numbers in front of me, but my gut says 40 synth flows just as well as 30 dino (anyone with DATA to double check?)... and it protects many times over. See BMW data. So it's not like the engine is circulating less oil when I use a 40ish synth compared to the 30 dino they put it at the factory, and all these years at the dealers.

Know I'll get flamed for this somehow.


Brian Dors
99 SVT

man! I learned a sh!tload about oil in this thread! I think