Contour Enthusiasts Group Archives Forums Modifications Forced Induction How fast are S/C CSVT?

Seems demonsvt has already done a good amount of tuning with his 14.80 e.t. n/a.

Bret, seems you got new toys, dont forget you once (or might still have) had a CSVT, and I'm sure you werent so hard on it before all that new torque went to your head. I realize it can be easy after going from my 4 cyl focus to my friends new GT.

Mark, Ill drop cr to the corrected 10.1 and rev limit to 6800, and refigure.

About the displacement, many ceg'ers that witnessed my old svt's near stock "roll-on" power, thought my second svt motor (hand sent from svt) featured the larger displacement and the 10.25 cr. Who knows? Weird thing was, dyno showed 2 torque peaks, 1 at 3800 rpm and 1 at 5800 rpm (only 1 ft lb difference)...a nice thing to have.

bill, i loved my csvt... and i was looking for proven ways to increase its torque without breaking my wallet.. the fact that i got a L has nothing to do with what i am saying... rara said it, tcobra said it, and i am STILL saying it. but you only argue with me... when they say it you guys listen...

it's not traction we need... its more torque or a stronger drivetrain... or maybe just better drivers.

lets just say it was "impossible" to spin the tires in the contour cause we had the infamous "traction" demon raves about... ok, so you launch at 3000 rpm, the engine bogs and you get a high 60' time... ok next time you try a 5k launch, your diff grenades and you are walking home...

or you could just add torque and launch at 2500 rpm and blow through the 60' and get into the 4500-7000rpm range much quicker and stay there for the rest of the run, and enjoy your new low et.

Could you explain this?

David Z ran 14.09 @ 98.9 - With a QUAIFE! (flywheel & clutch upgrades) Traction enhancement - his 60' was good too! You bring up Brad's 13.9 as TQ being the only reason he ran that fast. Skipping the part I mentioned about a 2.0 60' and using solid mounts & torque strap...
So about the same ET (thanks to traction!) as some S/C SVT's but lower trap speed...
You are not even acknowledging the difference in 60' times... HELLO - THAT'S TRACTION! I've only mentioned it like the last 5 posts??? What gives???

Since traction is a major problem now - More torque would only make it worse (just ask Brad about this one!) and therefore SLOW YOU DOWN with slower 60' times. Heck even 330' times...

Why do you not get this simple idea?

Yes the diff will not like better traction. Yes it may break. That's where a LSD comes in. But heck - they diff breaks on stock SVT's... So what's your point? Don't get better traction out of fear???

As for bogging down... Ever heard of clutch slipping. Pro racers have transmissions with "adjustable slip" so to speak. Us normal folks just have to do it the old fashion way and "practice"

I've seen several turbo's run 10's with normal redlines (~7k - A friends 10.6 second Conquest TSi {with IRS even!} comes to mind)
...and yes there is the Nitrous'd Honda crowd that spins to 8k. No low end torque there, but they seem to run fast for some odd reason... There's even a local Normally Aspirated Honda that is almost in the 11's. You know that has next to zero torque... What's he run - drag slicks for traction...

Okay, I have read this post from front to back and I can say that Demon is right, you have to have traction for that torque to even work for you, I have driven my friends contour to a best of 15.5, and it is very difficult to get traction in it, it might not be a torque monster, but it has enough to spin the tires at will, and the Honda crowd the most you will get out of a N/A Honda is about 150 lb ft, and that is generally at 6-7k rpm, not exactly easy on the drivetrain when launching, I broke my differential in the ever going quest for fast times with no torque, as any smart drag racer will tell you, the way to quick et's is getting off the line, why do you think people spend so much money in suspension tuning, wheelie bars, huge slicks, all in the name of traction and getting off the line, after that it is all about power.

Good point SiBlk00 .

I remember back when I was street racing ALOT (dont do it so much anymore) the Hondas were about the easiest car to get a jump on, the Si's especially, and even saw them getting beat thru the 1st couple of gears by EX Civis similairly modded. It wasnt because they were slower, they just required a much better driver due to the lack of torque.

Torque can make things easier, up the the point of traction, after that, id say its worse. My friends 00 GT with bassani catt-ed x-pipe and cat back exhaust is almost impossible to go WOT in first, from any launch. I went to the parking lot for a while to get the launch down in that car to help him out on his first day at the track, I still think the fastest times can be had in that car by feathering some of 1st gear.

At the street races (very highly organized) my friend in his Civic Si was getting stomped left and right by another Civic Si simply because he had a few more "low-end" grunt mods and the other guy was a better driver. After being defeated 2 times by about 2 cars (most of that on the launch), I strapped myself behind my friends 8100 rpm screamer and rolled to the line against that same driver. At the line, I did what your supposed to do in a Si (and watched everyone in the crowd cringe)...I spooled it to 5500 rpm and waited. When the girls hands dropped, I dumped the clutch and ended up beating that guy by 1 and 1/2 car lengths. My friends car I knew would walk on the top end, the small amount of torque just made it more difficult for an inexperienced person to launch.

Though Im swapping in the sweet ol duratec, at this moment, my Focus zetec is one of the easiest cars to launch I have ever driven. Not too much torque, but still enough. At 135 ft lbs and about 2400 lbs, I simply rev to 2500-3000 and drop the clutch, tires spin to about 3000 and hook.

My point is, there is a such thing as too much (when the chassis is uncapable), not enough (when the chassis is capable), and just right.

all those hondas/rice boy cars are SUB 2900 lbs! most are like 2600! if you drop 300-500 pounds off the contour, i agree, it doesn't need more torque to get it moving... but at its current weight there is not enough torque to get this car into a good 60' time.

and about the honda running a turbo only and getting into the 10s, that only backs up my point, any turbo making enough power to get you into the 10s is making ALOT of torque... no tractions mods.. just power... just proves my point.

so we are in agreement, the car has MORE traction than the drivetrain can handle. otherwise why slip the clutch? why not just let the tires spin? why, because they don't... they slip and catch and cause wheelhop, that is why brad added an engine brace, to keep the wheel hop down to keep his diff alive. i bet brad's tires spun more with the brace then without.

as far as the n/a car running 11s with slicks or d/rs... well either he has bumped up his redline a couple k's or he added tq... because as you know, hp is a function of tq and engine rpm.


and bill... why are you arguing with me when you are essentially doing what i am saying. you are taking the engine we have and REDUCING the amount of weight over the wheels, which is basicly increasing the cars relative tq. but wait... wouldn't reducing weight over the wheels REDUCE traction as well?!? so why are you wasting your time putting a higher TQ engine in the focus? are you expecting to run worse ETs then csvts after the engine swap? you already stated you expect to see mid-high 14s with just the engine swap, i am assuming you mean on street tires... so why are you arguing with me, when your whole project is just going to prove my point, there is not enough tq to move the weight this car has. so either increase tq or reduce weight...

I said that? If my car runs mid-high 14's Ill be pissed. The car would push mid 14's with the STOCK 200 hp engine if thats what you mean. With an expected 301 hp n/a at the crank and 2300-2400 lbs, Im expecting high 12's on slicks and Mid 13's on street tires. (before power adder)
Fwiw, some of the honda drag cars run 10's normally aspirated with 240 hp and 190 tq at the wheels. They just weigh about 1600 lbs.
And bret, i didnt think I was arguing, seriously.

i could have swore i saw you post somewhere that you expected the STOCK engine to put you in the mid 14s. before any modding...

sorry bill, i thought you were trying to say the car doesn't need more tq... guess i misread your post. seems more like you were just giving your input and not really jumping in.