Contour Enthusiasts Group Archives Forums Modifications General Mods OIL PICKUP TUBE (lil long, for all duratec owners)

Hey guys....

in a disscussion with my dad i brought up the oil starvation problem. with a little thought he asked me about using a flop tube instead of the standard oil pickup...

definition: flop tube: a length of hose weighted at one end

basically with this tube it would flow with the oil. the oil pickup in our cars is in a fixed location if there no oil in the area no oil can be scavanged. with this tube the pickup would travel via centrifical force with the oil to ensure an ample supple at all times.... for example in a right hand turn the oil in our car flow to the left hand side of the block while the pickup stays stationary in the middle, with the flop tube the oil as well as the pickup point would flow over to the left. as you can see this would mean ample flow at all times (even if the motor was a quart low)

my dad showed me the principle in relation to an airplane (hes building a pitts special in his garage) planes use flop tubes in there fuel tanks...basically no matter what attitude the planes is in even if upside down the tube is always where the fuel is

now i know that this is a little different then our cars but maybe with a little work/effort we could work something out with our cars and while the standard pan is down we could fix a revised windage tray so to prevent airation of the already present oil plus aircraft flop tubes can be had for like 45 dollars in a catolog my dad has on his shelf so it can be very inexpensive

any way as always would appriciate questions comments (even if there only saying how retarded i am...he he he)

ps i own a y2k svt, has anyone determined if this pan is different then the other years???

Well, that would work. All we would need to do is find some high temp hose that would also withstand the disolving properties of oil. Just put a hose clamp on a hose on the pickup tube. Hmmm... Interesting. What does he use for the weight at the end of the hose, and, would that weight sliding around on the oil pan cause shavings to scrape off? Maybe a teflon coated weight.

Maybe you should have your dad put a little more thought in to this one and maybe he could make a buck or to. I'm sure I'm not the only one who can't afford $450 for a baffled oil pan. I would be interested to hear about what you come up with. Think about it and let us know if you come up with anything. Sounds like a good start though!

I'd definitely drop my pan to install a working flop tube!

"I'd definitly drop my pan to install a working flop tube!"

So would I!

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blk.99svt
n.e.Ohio

hehe...He said flop tube...hehe

Interesting idea. That would be a substitute for baffels then. One possible drawback is that it would not address oil aereation/froathing, (if that is a problem). Love to here what Terry thinks.

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Dan
99SVT - Tropic Green
#554/2760
Stock - except minor intake, exhaust, & motor mount enhancements

Sounds interesting... I would be conserned with how the 'Flop Tube' would work in the dead of winter, when that oil is thicker than...

The Lotus Elan (the REAL elan from the '60s) suffered from the same problem. The solution was an oil pickup that would rotate freely. So as the car turned the oil pickup would rotate the same way the oil was drawn by G forces.

I like the sound of this idea. Now it's a matter of getting it off the drawing board. I know I've said this before but... The major cause of the Duratec oiling problems is the stock windage tray (upper baffle in Ford-speak). I've designed a solid solution to remedy it, but I need to drop my pan before I'm 100% certain of my design and can then proceed with fabrication. A welded up pan is really just a band aid solution. It does provide 1 significant advantage and that is increased capacity. Certainly pricey though.

Increased capacity is nice... However not a significant bonus since we hold nearly 6qts to begin with and SVT's have an oil cooler to boot.
Plus widening the pan would acutally be worse for long extended turns (oil moves farther away from pickup and the trap door still has to pass oil so it's not 100%) and a deeper pan would be unsafe for ground clearance reasons.

It's this starvation threat that is major!

my dad and i are going to get a flop tube and see if we cant work something out...
right now its just an idea but what would really help is does anyone have pictures of the pan/bottom end of the duratec this would let us see the motor and were the pickup is. the one bonus to this is that when the pan is down to install the flop tube you can incorperate the new windage design that way were taking out two problems at one time and cost should really be minimal sonsidering...around 100 dollars (and a few hours of your time) all in all we will see what we can come up with

also i dont know how well it will do with the 0 degree wheather but the flop tube will be of the same size (probable larger) then the standard pickup tube plus 0w-30 stays pretty thin even at lower temps

also if oil airation is the problem a larger pan might be worse in the long run (more oil means more movement in the pan into the moving components even worse airation then already present)

I have a new Duratec pick up assembly in my garage. I bought it to see how the stock system could be improved. I also HAD a Y2K pan. I returned it as it was near identical to my 95. Post your email address and I'll do what I can to help out. How are you going to attach the flop tube to the existing hard tube? Any failure at this point will lead to immediate engine failure. This set up would work great with my modified upper baffle.

I would worry about a flop tube colapsing in cold conditions. Heck, depending on how it was built, it could colapse in warm conditions.

What would keep a flop tube from colapsing?

Cheers,

TB

try a rigid Swivel oil pickup ala Lotus.

"The major cause of the Duratec oiling problems is the stock windage tray (upper baffle in Ford-speak)."

Bradness, how do you know this, what is the explaination. Not doubting you or anything and GLAD to have people trying to figure this out - but all the people Ive talked to - Chris Reinke @ Team Contour, A guy with Roush who designed the Bondurant SVT, and Al Mirko all added baffels, increased capacity, and 2 or 3 also added screens to break up areation, ALONG with I think other windage tray mods. How do you know that moding the windage tray alone will be as effective?

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Dan
99SVT - Tropic Green
#554/2760
Stock - except minor intake, exhaust, & motor mount enhancements

I am curious if a crank scraper would work on the Duratec. That might help with the frothing, also pick up a HP or two at higher revs. Maybe that only works with thicker weight oil.

just to keep every one informed i got a chance to see the flop tube today what it basically is, a braided line similar that can be found for brakes or oil lines for coolers. this line is used (assuming) both because its very felxable, long lasting and can with stand oils corrosive properties (also would not collapse as easily). at the end of the line there is a large brass nut. that weighs it down (again assuming)that brass is used because it softer less likely to damage anything (aka scrape). plus if needed we could probably round the corners for even more protection

still looking into if this would work for our cars hope this helps

ps if you got pics or anything else send it to relentless1214@hotmail.com

Dan-I did an exhaustive literature search through approx. one dozen books. I'm an open wheel racer/crew chief/engineer/mechanic, and utilized a bunch of references which I've acquired over the past 10 years. Normally racers use dry sump systems, but certain classes (showroom stock) must utilize the existing wet sump systems. Then I bought the following new stock Ford parts to examine them-Y2K pan; oil pick up assembly; upper baffle (windage tray). All reference material pointed me to 1 glaring problem-the windage tray. Ford designed this piece to do 3 jobs-scraper, girdle and windage tray. Unfortunately, it should have been 2 or 3 seperate parts. As I mentioned earlier, I'll have a fix for this problem shortly. I must get the pan off and examine the existing set up to be 100% sure of my design. Can you direct me to your database of problems? I'd like to know if these failures occur on Y2K models. I have a hunch that Ford changed the head gasket to limit top end oiling and keep more oil in the lower crankcase.