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Originally posted by Rara:
Originally posted by VisionOneAutosports:
For this bulk buy the price will start at $900 Dollars SHIPPED, that's up to $400 cheaper than the competition.
This isn't a bad price at all for what you are offering, but let's at least be fair in what you compare to the competition. The competition's kit, at $400 more includes 13" (or 12.2" at the same price if you prefer) 2-piece rotors with aluminum hats plus hardware. This MORE than covers the difference in price over the Focus SVT rotors that come with this kit. There is certainly a market for both kits, but let's be fair in advertising.
You are entierly correct, and that is quite on purpose, but also remember that the 12.2 inch kit does not fit stock wheels either. And there is not addtional charge (125 for drilling?!?!) for slotting, drilling, or both.
We purposely avoided a 2 peice rotor due to cost, but I will go head to head with the competition, if their $1300 kit stops 30% shorter (thats how much more it costs) then I will be a full supporter, if their car on the same set up and drvier run 30% shorter lap times, I will be a full suporter, but if it doesnt you need to ask yourself where your priorities lie... we focusedo n getting a big performer out there for a much more reasonable price, thats all 
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Originally posted by VisionOneAutosports:
Originally posted by Rara:
Originally posted by VisionOneAutosports:
For this bulk buy the price will start at $900 Dollars SHIPPED, that's up to $400 cheaper than the competition.
This isn't a bad price at all for what you are offering, but let's at least be fair in what you compare to the competition. The competition's kit, at $400 more includes 13" (or 12.2" at the same price if you prefer) 2-piece rotors with aluminum hats plus hardware. This MORE than covers the difference in price over the Focus SVT rotors that come with this kit. There is certainly a market for both kits, but let's be fair in advertising.
You are entierly correct, and that is quite on purpose, but also remember that the 12.2 inch kit does not fit stock wheels either. And there is not addtional charge (125 for drilling?!?!) for slotting, drilling, or both.
We purposely avoided a 2 peice rotor due to cost, but I will go head to head with the competition, if their $1300 kit stops 30% shorter (thats how much more it costs) then I will be a full supporter, if their car on the same set up and drvier run 30% shorter lap times, I will be a full suporter, but if it doesnt you need to ask yourself where your priorities lie... we focusedo n getting a big performer out there for a much more reasonable price, thats all
Good points, and we thank you for your support!
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Joined: May 2002
Posts: 21,653
I have no life
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I have no life
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Originally posted by nadthomas:
Additionaly only the 278mm rotor will fit under stock 16's without a spacer. The VOA kit does not require a spacer w/ stock 16's. Well I should say atleast on a cougar rim. I can't say w/ 100% certainty, because clearance is very close and I don't believe the kit has been fitted with a contour wheel.
I had E1 wheels on my cougar for a short time, so if I have time I will try to swing by the NECO member I sold them, but that won't happen until after I get back from vaction.
Not quite true. The brackets warmonger is working on allow fitment of the 300mm focus svt rotors under the stock 16"s (atleast both E0 and E1 svt wheels).
98.5 SVT
91 Escort GT (almost sold)
96 ATX Zetec (i brake to watch you swerve)
FS: SVT rear sway bar
WTB: Very cheap beater
CEG Dragon Run - October 13-15
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"Absolut Rara."
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"Absolut Rara."
Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 3,223 |
Originally posted by nadthomas:
. . .scrolling through the Bat catalog . . . but their 300mm rotor is just a blank. Its not cross drilled or slotted, and its not zinc plated.
Meh, the lack of drilling on a rotor never designed to be drilled is a big plus to me. But, hey, what do I know about brakes . . .
Originally posted by nadthomas:
Additionaly only the 278mm rotor will fit under stock 16's without a spacer. The VOA kit does not require a spacer w/ stock 16's.
Um, the 300mm Focus SVT rotor works quite well under stock 16" wheels, whether you use the FSVT calipers, or the stock contour calipers with brackets. Get you're facts straight.
Originally posted by VisionOneAutosports:
. . . but also remember that the 12.2 inch kit does not fit stock wheels either.
So what? How many people are running a big brake kit on the stock wheels anyway? Not that a 300mm rotor is huge anyway.
Originally posted by VisionOneAutosports:
And there is not addtional charge (125 for drilling?!?!) for slotting, drilling, or both.
Meh, again, this doesn't bother me. Drilling is silly on anything that wasn't intentionally designed to be drilled from the outset. Slotting isn't a big deal either way, especially on a street car.
Originally posted by VisionOneAutosports:
We purposely avoided a 2 peice rotor due to cost,
I've got no problem with that, it is quite understandable, since Contour and Cougar owners have largely proved themselves to be really cheap or broke anyway.
Originally posted by VisionOneAutosports:
but I will go head to head with the competition, if their $1300 kit stops 30% shorter (thats how much more it costs) then I will be a full supporter, if their car on the same set up and drvier run 30% shorter lap times, I will be a full suporter,
And your kit is 80-100% more expensive than the $400 swap over to the SVT Focus brakes, I'm pretty sure your stuff isn't an 80-100% improvement in stopping distances or lap times over the FSVT brakes. Heck, I challenge you to show that your kit will stop 30% quicker than even the stock Contour SVT brakes in a fair back to back comparison. I guarantee it won't. It won't do much for single laptimes either, as long as its a fair comparison.
Originally posted by VisionOneAutosports:
but if it doesnt you need to ask yourself where your priorities lie... we focusedo n getting a big performer out there for a much more reasonable price, thats all
Well, if your priorities are the biggest bang for the buck, then it is easily the Focus SVT brake upgrade.
I'm not trying to discourage your sales here; I'm just trying to keep the playing field honest. And I happen to know a thing or two about brakes . . .
And, fwiw, because of my personal experiences, I am just no longer a fan of wilwood calipers. Brembo calipers are the only ones that have never let me down . . . though, to be fair, I've never used AP or Alcon calipers extensively. Hmm, maybe I should put together my own kit . . .
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Posts: 15
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Originally posted by Rara:
Originally posted by nadthomas:
. . .scrolling through the Bat catalog . . . but their 300mm rotor is just a blank. Its not cross drilled or slotted, and its not zinc plated.
Meh, the lack of drilling on a rotor never designed to be drilled is a big plus to me. But, hey, what do I know about brakes . . .
Originally posted by nadthomas:
Additionaly only the 278mm rotor will fit under stock 16's without a spacer. The VOA kit does not require a spacer w/ stock 16's.
Um, the 300mm Focus SVT rotor works quite well under stock 16" wheels, whether you use the FSVT calipers, or the stock contour calipers with brackets. Get you're facts straight.
I'm not trying to discourage your sales here; I'm just trying to keep the playing field honest. And I happen to know a thing or two about brakes . . .
Ummm if you would note, please, the current disscussion was about the Bat brake kit. And it says right in their catalog that their 300mm kit requires wheels spaces. I am well aware that a 300mm rotor will fit in a stock 16" wheel, I own the VOA prototype kit. I am also aware of the Focus 300mm setup as well. I was not talking about the Focus kit at all, I was talking about the BAT kit in compairison to the VOA kit.
As far as the drilling and slotting goes, I believe just about everyone knows that it doesn't do much, if anything for our cars, but some people still like the look. Drilling and slotting is offered as a free option, so if you don't want it, great don't get it.
For someone that is not trying to discourage sales you sure are doing a good job of twisting things around to make them look bad. Just so everyone is aware, my obligations to VOA to display or even talk at all about this kit were done the second I pulled my car into Cougarfest. I have nothing to gain from the sale of their kit, other then to see two nice guys sell a good brake kit, and to see Cougar & Contour owners enjoying the kit. My offering to do compairison brake tests, and double test the fitment with Contour wheels is for the good of the Contour and Cougar community, not VOA. I may not know it all about brakes, but I'm doing what little I can to help.
Last edited by nadthomas; 07/19/06 02:49 AM.
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Rara is not trying to discourage sales, but trying to provide correct information, which is something anyone can appreciate, especially anyone interested in purchasing a brake upgrade.
And as far as the 300mm rotors from BAT not fitting without spacers has little to do with rotor size. It's the caliper they're using that is making contact with the wheel spokes. And as mentioned before, their kit may not be even available as is most likely not something many/any CEGer is considering due to other options.
And again, thanks to visionone for doing something for cdw27's, but we like to have the facts on this forum. That should be understandable whether you know nothing or everything about brakes.
98.5 SVT
91 Escort GT (almost sold)
96 ATX Zetec (i brake to watch you swerve)
FS: SVT rear sway bar
WTB: Very cheap beater
CEG Dragon Run - October 13-15
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Originally posted by Rara:
And your kit is 80-100% more expensive than the $400 swap over to the SVT Focus brakes, I'm pretty sure your stuff isn't an 80-100% improvement in stopping distances or lap times over the FSVT brakes. Heck, I challenge you to show that your kit will stop 30% quicker than even the stock Contour SVT brakes in a fair back to back comparison. I guarantee it won't. It won't do much for single laptimes either, as long as its a fair comparison.
Originally posted by VisionOneAutosports:
but if it doesnt you need to ask yourself where your priorities lie... we focusedo n getting a big performer out there for a much more reasonable price, thats all
Well, if your priorities are the biggest bang for the buck, then it is easily the Focus SVT brake upgrade.
I'm not trying to discourage your sales here; I'm just trying to keep the playing field honest. And I happen to know a thing or two about brakes . . .
The focus SVT option is not bad on a budget, quality rotors and a good set of pads is even better on a budget!
Stepping up to a fixed 4 piston caliper over a stock floater enables
1: much larger selection of pad compounds for on and off the track
2: much better cooling and thus fade resistance than than the SVT could ever how to provide, which also leads to consitency in pedal feel after repeated stops.
If the focus SVT calipers and rotors were that good, focus owners would not upgrade them would they?
I must say Rara your arguments on the surface seem to be non biased, but really seem to be discouraging when you look at the information you conveniently leave out.
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I'm curious if your rotors have directional vanes? I'm pretty sure the Focus SVT ones are not directional. I know Baer's are, but not sure about TCE's (pretty sure they are).
morbid
2000 Contour SVT (black)
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Just to put some of this to rest, lets be absolutely clear on what your 400 dollar savings difference is:
What you sacrifice:
1 piece instead of 2 piece rotor - but as rara him/herself pointed out, if you don't need slotting or drilling on a street car, then why do you need a 400 dollar more expensive 2 piece rotor set?
A rotor that is directionally vaned, for just a vaned rotor, but again as rara stated, if the SVT rotor/caliper upgrade is so great the these should still be great performers.
11.8 rotor diameter instead of 12.2 - that's a loss of 3.3% in diameter, however you get a .9 inch thickness instead of .81, that's a 10% gain in thickness.
You do not need an additional spacer set (add another $40) to fit stock wheels
You do not pay shipping
What you gain:
Absurd stopping for a street car, I got light headed in this car when stopping from 80 MPH because it stopped so fast, and our test car has VERY mild tires, lock up at low speeds was a given on 3/4 pedal.
The EXACT same calipers, and your choice of pad compounds.
$400 dollars in your pocket for an exhaust, CAI, STS, headers, better tires, sway bars, TB upgrade.... need I go on?
If your absolutely determined to have the most absurd stopping power in town, then you need to build your own kit with the 14 inch rotors, and use something like the P6R and titanium brackets, but those claipers alone would cost you about 40 grand for the pair
If you want a great looking, great performing kit at 1/3 less cost than the next best option, this is it, I don't want to debate what is or is not needed on a treet car, thats not Rara's descision or mine, in the end it is up to you YOU, the owner and driver of the car to decide how to spend your money, we have been straight forward with the facts from the beginning so here they are (once again) as plainly as I can put them! 
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EDIT: the P6R is about 2 grand per claiper for a total of 4 grand in claipers. For 40 grand your calipers better add 50 HP also!
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