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Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 431
CEG\'er
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OP
CEG\'er
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 431 |
I am at the stage of gapping my rings. I bought total seal rings and went by their gap recommendations but......
After doing some more research on what might be the best gap for my forced induction setup. There were many of site and forums who have diiferent opinions on the ring gaps.
One being
the top ring gap is larger than the second ring just like total seals recommends. But on high reving motors there is ring flutter when the second rings has less blowby then the first. So to avoid the top ring from losing seal there is a newer approach
which is
making the second gap larger like two thousands more. I researched it more and found out that people have been doing this for a long time. I also read many of forum post where the second rings ends butted because of the first ring not sealing seeing more higher temps than before. I know that the gap is really measured by heat expansion. and of course oiling on the second ring is better too when it is larger too from what I read to allow some oil to get to the top ring. The only downfall too the whole setup with larger gap on the 2nd ring is the vacuum of the motor would be less.
I am leaning towards .022 on top and .024 on bottom should be enough sealing surface to handle the high boost I have setup for the 3 liter. I also have a 3.520 bore too.
Any opinion would be appreciated before I file my second rings to size to the final gap. Thanks Joey
99 SVT #198 blk/blue
Spec 3/quaife/stage 2 shafts
T3/T4 fully built 3.0
ported heads
water injec./intercooled
13.2 @ 107 mph
clifford alarm and turbo timer
koni struts H&R springs
intercooler for sale
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Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 5,810
Hard-core CEG'er
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Hard-core CEG'er
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 5,810 |
Originally posted by BurritaSVT:
I am at the stage of gapping my rings. I bought total seal rings and went by their gap recommendations but......
After doing some more research on what might be the best gap for my forced induction setup. There were many of site and forums who have diiferent opinions on the ring gaps.
One being
the top ring gap is larger than the second ring just like total seals recommends. But on high reving motors there is ring flutter when the second rings has less blowby then the first. So to avoid the top ring from losing seal there is a newer approach
which is
making the second gap larger like two thousands more. I researched it more and found out that people have been doing this for a long time. I also read many of forum post where the second rings ends butted because of the first ring not sealing seeing more higher temps than before. I know that the gap is really measured by heat expansion. and of course oiling on the second ring is better too when it is larger too from what I read to allow some oil to get to the top ring. The only downfall too the whole setup with larger gap on the 2nd ring is the vacuum of the motor would be less.
I am leaning towards .022 on top and .024 on bottom should be enough sealing surface to handle the high boost I have setup for the 3 liter. I also have a 3.520 bore too.
Any opinion would be appreciated before I file my second rings to size to the final gap. Thanks Joey
Most importantly, you haven't discussed the piston alloy you are using!
Stock hypereutectic pistons, and replacement hyper pistons do not require excessive ring gap because the piston expands less, can therefore be in the bore with a tighter clearance and prevent some of the excessive blowby.
The forged piston will require a bit more clearance and then you should use the ring gap recommendations from the Piston manufacturer, not the ring maker IMHO.
If I were running hyper pistons with custom rings I'd probably go with slightly over stock settings on the top ring and stock settings on the bottom ring.
Former owner of '99 CSVT - Silver #222/2760
356/334 wHP/TQ at 10psi on pump gas!
See My Mods
'05 Volvo S40 Turbo 5 AWD with 6spd, Passion Red
'06 Mazda5 Touring, 5spd,MTX, Black
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Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 431
CEG\'er
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OP
CEG\'er
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 431 |
I have diamond pistons forged but all other piston manufacturers state that 2nd ring must be gap larger.
99 SVT #198 blk/blue
Spec 3/quaife/stage 2 shafts
T3/T4 fully built 3.0
ported heads
water injec./intercooled
13.2 @ 107 mph
clifford alarm and turbo timer
koni struts H&R springs
intercooler for sale
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Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 5,810
Hard-core CEG'er
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Hard-core CEG'er
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 5,810 |
Originally posted by BurritaSVT:
I have diamond pistons forged but all other piston manufacturers state that 2nd ring must be gap larger.
Hmmm. And does Diamond state anything, or do they only state it for another type of ring?
If Diamond provided the rings then I'd use their settings and call it a day. If not, then I'd ask Diamond what they think of the settings suggested by someone else; then balance that against another couple of sources. As it seems you are doing right now. I hate to say it but I'd go easy on widening out the second ring so that you don't overdo it and end up with too much blow-by.
Former owner of '99 CSVT - Silver #222/2760
356/334 wHP/TQ at 10psi on pump gas!
See My Mods
'05 Volvo S40 Turbo 5 AWD with 6spd, Passion Red
'06 Mazda5 Touring, 5spd,MTX, Black
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Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 431
CEG\'er
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OP
CEG\'er
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 431 |
Well Warmonger the new ring sets did not come with specs on the rings I am using a two year old chart which gives different application on forced , nitrous NA , etc. SO the new set of total seal rings had no info on what sizes to do was trying to finish my motor this weekend and was just curious to what most thought would be better. And just because the company does it one way not necessarily means they know what is best. Rings are rings just made with different materials. I did di the higher chrome moly top ring with the classic ring on bottom. Read this article and tell me if this makes sense .... http://www.stockcarracing.com/techarticles/scrp_0510_rings/
99 SVT #198 blk/blue
Spec 3/quaife/stage 2 shafts
T3/T4 fully built 3.0
ported heads
water injec./intercooled
13.2 @ 107 mph
clifford alarm and turbo timer
koni struts H&R springs
intercooler for sale
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Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 5,810
Hard-core CEG'er
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Hard-core CEG'er
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 5,810 |
Well, I think I've read this article before but found better ones on the internet when researching this topic.
This really doesn't change my thinking too much. To me it would be a matter of how tightly the rings fit the piston, how deep they go into the groove and what you're expecting to do 'abuse-wise' with them.
Really, you seem to know what you want to do already and are doing the research....so go with what feels right to you. There isn't only one right answer here.
Former owner of '99 CSVT - Silver #222/2760
356/334 wHP/TQ at 10psi on pump gas!
See My Mods
'05 Volvo S40 Turbo 5 AWD with 6spd, Passion Red
'06 Mazda5 Touring, 5spd,MTX, Black
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