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All right, I'm reporting.
Fuse 1 and 10 under hood - OK.
Fuse 30 in car - OK.
Diodes? -- Not sure, can't seem to get a reading on them. On the in car one a reading will flash on one way, but not reversed. Under hood, nothing.
Looked all around the battery, fuse box, starter, etc. Nothing obviously wrong with any wires.
Pin 3 of R6 does have battery voltage.
Small wire on starter- low resistance, under 1.
If someone else had been around to hold the clutch down, I would have tried the DO NOT TRY TEST, but couldn't.
Could someone go over how to test diodes again, please. Set the meter to oHms right? (Sigma)
It got cold and dark, and I did all of my testing. I'm just going to buy some replacement diodes in the morning. Can't be too much $$.
PRAY THAT IS THE PROBLEM! The under the hood one might be bad, I tried to follow J's testing instructions, but must be doing something wrong.
Anyway, thanks again! Pray for me, I need it! Or wish me LUCK ! ! !
MUST SELL - ECM computer new for a 98 V6 mtx + pats
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Yes, you test the diode by setting the meter to resistance.
The diodes have two pins on them. put one probe of the meter on each pin of the diode, see what the reading is. Then swap the position of the probes of the meter and see what the resistance is. One way should be alot lower than the other way.
When you take the diode out make sure that you pay attention to which way it was installed. If you install it the wrong way it will not allow the circuit to work properly. Unless the two pins of the diode are differnt so its impossible to put it in wrong. (Like how relays are they have one pin that is sideways compared to the others so there is no way it can go in wrong)
The diodes will probably cost somewhere between $2 and $3 each. I want to say that they are standardized like the fuses so they should be reasonably easy to find. If you do get new ones make sure you take the ones you are replacing with you to make sure that you get the right ones.
If you try the DO NOT TRY THIS way of testing the starter by shourting the pins I mentioned it won't matter if the clutch is pressed or not for it to work. Thats why its dangerous. If all the wiring is good The engine will crank wether the transmission is in gear or not and the clutch out or in. So when the engine turns the car can move and if it starts it will drive away without out you or if you're in front of it, it will drive over you. Thats why its dangerous.
If the small wire has a resistance under 1, then that means that either R6, the starter, the ignition diode, the starter diode or the big wire from the battery to the starter are bad.
To test the big wire, disconnect it from the starter and from the battery and check the resistance trough it. You should see 1ohm or less, even go as far as to push and twist the probe into the end of the wire that attaches to the battery so it digs in a little to be sure it gets a real good connection you're looking for 1ohm or less.
To test R6.
take it out. Connect (-) 12 volt power to pin 1, connect (+) 12 volt power to pin 2. Make sure you connect power to the pins of the relay by some means that can hold themselves on becasue you'll need your hands free to hold the probes of the meter. AS soon as you make that connection you should hear and or feel the relay click. Then use your resistance meter and test the resistance between pins 3 and 5. (it doesn't matter which probe of the meter you touch to the pins as long as one probe is on 3 and the other probe is on 5) the resistance should be low. If its high or infinity its bad. If you just want to replace it R6 will proably cost in the area of $6 to $10.
I feel sorry for the people who don't drink. When they wake up in the morning, thats the best they're going to feel all day - former President Lyndon B. Johnson
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I'm really hoping you get to the bottom of this. I'm getting excited to find out what you find wrong.
I feel sorry for the people who don't drink. When they wake up in the morning, thats the best they're going to feel all day - former President Lyndon B. Johnson
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Originally posted by JSmith:
I just spent the last 30 min. studying the wiring diagrams in my haynes manual. Truly I appreciate it!
To test the diodes... I had some trouble testing them, but the in car one is OK. My meter flashes a number one way and 0 the other. The underhood one I couldn't get any reading on. Replacement on the way.
how to find them.
Check Fuses 1 and 10, both are in the auxilary fuse box under the hood. Both OK.
Check the starter relay diode in the fuse box under the hood. Its located right under a line of 4 fuses. Replacement on the way.
Check fuse 30 in the fuse box inside the car. OK
Check the ignition relay diode in the fuse box in the car. Its on the bottom between the alligator thing and the rows of fuses. Seems OK.
Also, if you said there was a smell, then look for wires that look different with dark spots on them or spots with the insulation bubbled up or even missing. Nothing obvious. I got under and looked up as well.
Check the small wire at the starter for resistance. Here's how to do it. The resistance should be very low. Under 1.
While you have R6 removed use your voltage meter to check for voltage in the socket that pin 3 of R6 fits into. There should be battery voltage there all the time. 12.8.
you can do this. Disconnect the battery. Leave the small wire on the starter disconnected, leave R6 out. Take a short peice of wire and short out the sockets in the fuse box that pins 5 and 3 of R6 fit into. This will make the connection that R6 makes to send power to the starter. Take your resisitance meter and put one end on the potitive battery cable terminal and put the other end of the meter onto the end of the small wire that attaches to the starter. The resistance should be low. Under 1.
I also tested the starter by taking a large piece of wire (piece of old jumper cable) and connected the small wire to the large wire on the starter and it cranked!! But no start. I juggled everything and made that connection, opened the throttle AND PRAYED all at once. But still NO GO!
I'll try the DANGEROUS way tonight.
What else should I be checking? I pulled the back seat and foudn the fuel pump and checked the wiring on it. Seemed fine.
I opened up around the steering column and found the PATS ring that goes around the ignition/ key and checked the connections there, seemed fine. Nothing else seemed strange there. All wiring looked fine...
Strange question. I have taken my console out recently. What is the blue box basically behind the little pocket on the console, below the head unit? Just curious. Behind the console I found a wire with a flat connector about 2 inches long by about a 1/4 inch that was not connected to anything. The wires come out from the same spot in the dash as the lighter power.
Any other ideas? A new diode and neutral safety switch will be here soon, probably tomorrow (I hope).
Does anyone know where the PCM is? PATS? Ignition switch? Any photos?
Thanks again for all the suggestions and help. I do appreciate it!
MUST SELL - ECM computer new for a 98 V6 mtx + pats
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Originally posted by mean'tour:
I also tested the starter by taking a large piece of wire (piece of old jumper cable) and connected the small wire to the large wire on the starter and it cranked!! But no start. I juggled everything and made that connection, opened the throttle AND PRAYED all at once. But still NO GO!
I'll try the DANGEROUS way tonight.
What else should I be checking? I pulled the back seat and foudn the fuel pump and checked the wiring on it. Seemed fine.
I opened up around the steering column and found the PATS ring that goes around the ignition/ key and checked the connections there, seemed fine. Nothing else seemed strange there. All wiring looked fine...
Strange question. I have taken my console out recently. What is the blue box basically behind the little pocket on the console, below the head unit? Just curious. Behind the console I found a wire with a flat connector about 2 inches long by about a 1/4 inch that was not connected to anything. The wires come out from the same spot in the dash as the lighter power.
Any other ideas? A new diode and neutral safety switch will be here soon, probably tomorrow (I hope).
Does anyone know where the PCM is? PATS? Ignition switch? Any photos?
Thanks again for all the suggestions and help. I do appreciate it!
excellent.. thats all I can say for your testing and what you've found out. The tests you did prove that all the wiring between the starter and R6 & R6 and the battery is intact. And when you shorted the two wires at the starter and the engine cranked that prooves that the starter, its solenoid, the battery and the battery cable going to the starterare ok. So the search to find out why the starter isn't working has now become very narrow.
The only things in the system that we're not sure of now are the neutral safety switch, the diodes you are going to replace and R6. Like I said, just becasue a relay like R6 clicks doesn't mean that it is making the connection it is supposed to. You can test the relay by putting power to the two pins that lead to the coil inside and check the resistance through the other two pins but the meter usues a very low current to test resistance and its possible that the contacts are in a condition where they will allow the current from the meter to pass with low resistance but not allow enough current to pass for the solenoid on the starter to work
When you checked resistance between the battery and the small wire on the starter with R6 removed and the jumper wire in place that shows that all that wiring is intact. But the only thing that wasn't part of the test was R6, therefore it could be bad and we don't know. What I'm saying is that the only sure fire way to know is to replace R6.
I'm not sure where the PATS is located. The ignition switch is located in the steering column directly across from where the key goes. I think the PCM is under the hood under the power steering resivor. That connector you saw, I think that is used when the dealer connects diagnostic equipment.
I feel sorry for the people who don't drink. When they wake up in the morning, thats the best they're going to feel all day - former President Lyndon B. Johnson
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Originally posted by JSmith:
Originally posted by mean'tour:
I also tested the starter by taking a large piece of wire (piece of old jumper cable) and connected the small wire to the large wire on the starter and it cranked!! But no start. I juggled everything and made that connection, opened the throttle AND PRAYED all at once. But still NO GO!
I'll try the DANGEROUS way tonight.
What else should I be checking? I pulled the back seat and foudn the fuel pump and checked the wiring on it. Seemed fine.
I opened up around the steering column and found the PATS ring that goes around the ignition/ key and checked the connections there, seemed fine. Nothing else seemed strange there. All wiring looked fine...
Strange question. I have taken my console out recently. What is the blue box basically behind the little pocket on the console, below the head unit? Just curious. Behind the console I found a wire with a flat connector about 2 inches long by about a 1/4 inch that was not connected to anything. The wires come out from the same spot in the dash as the lighter power.
Any other ideas? A new diode and neutral safety switch will be here soon, probably tomorrow (I hope).
Does anyone know where the PCM is? PATS? Ignition switch? Any photos?
Thanks again for all the suggestions and help. I do appreciate it!
excellent.. thats all I can say for your testing and what you've found out. The tests you did prove that all the wiring between the starter and R6 & R6 and the battery is intact. And when you shorted the two wires at the starter and the engine cranked that prooves that the starter, its solenoid, the battery and the battery cable going to the starterare ok. So the search to find out why the starter isn't working has now become very narrow.
The only things in the system that we're not sure of now are the neutral safety switch, the diodes you are going to replace and R6. Like I said, just becasue a relay like R6 clicks doesn't mean that it is making the connection it is supposed to. You can test the relay by putting power to the two pins that lead to the coil inside and check the resistance through the other two pins but the meter usues a very low current to test resistance and its possible that the contacts are in a condition where they will allow the current from the meter to pass with low resistance but not allow enough current to pass for the solenoid on the starter to work
When you checked resistance between the battery and the small wire on the starter with R6 removed and the jumper wire in place that shows that all that wiring is intact. But the only thing that wasn't part of the test was R6, therefore it could be bad and we don't know. What I'm saying is that the only sure fire way to know is to replace R6.
I'm not sure where the PATS is located. The ignition switch is located in the steering column directly across from where the key goes. I think the PCM is under the hood under the power steering resivor. That connector you saw, I think that is used when the dealer connects diagnostic equipment.
Wow, thanks again for all of your help.
I will wait for the diode and neutral safety switch and install them ASAP. I have a new R6, I'll put that in. Hopefully it will start then.
I'm still not getting and fuel pump noise. Any ideas of the cause there? Ignition switch? What does that look like? Brown circle about 2 inches across? Could it be PATS? I'm thinking No since my PATS led doesn't do anything strange when the key is in or out...
Here's my question for you... What's next? IF it still doesn't start with the new R6, diode and clutch switch? Hopefully it will at least crank at that point.
What's next?
I can't tell you how much help you have all been, especially JSmith. Thanks so much.
MUST SELL - ECM computer new for a 98 V6 mtx + pats
Now trolling in a Red Nissan 4 x 4
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Originally posted by mean'tour:
What else should I be checking? I pulled the back seat and found the fuel pump and checked the wiring on it. Seemed fine.
I opened up around the steering column and found the PATS ring that goes around the ignition/ key and checked the connections there, seemed fine. Nothing else seemed strange there. All wiring looked fine...
Thanks again for all the suggestions and help. I do appreciate it!
I'm still not getting any fuel pump noise. Any ideas of the cause there? Ignition switch? What does that look like? Brown circle about 2 inches across?
Could it be PATS? I'm thinking No since my PATS led doesn't do anything strange when the key is in or out...
Here's my question for you... What's next? IF it still doesn't start with the new R6, diode and clutch switch? Hopefully it will at least crank at that point.
What's next?
I can't tell you how much help you have all been, especially JSmith. Thanks so much.
I quickly shot a few photos last night. Where is the ignition switch? Should I be thinking about replacing that? Might that be a likely suspect still? 
Sorry not the greatest shots, it was a dark and stormy night...
MUST SELL - ECM computer new for a 98 V6 mtx + pats
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Smurfette
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I fixed one of your picture links (had too many "http"'s in it)
What is that switch for, next to your headlight switch/knob?
Kim
1995 Contour GL
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the ignition switch is the round brown object with about a half dozen wires coming from it going to the square light grey connector, it is directly inline with the ignition cyclinder
- 95 Mystique LS - Zetec/5spd
- 99 Contour SeVT Sport - Duratec/5spd
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Originally posted by frenchblueC2:
I fixed one of your picture links (had too many "http"'s in it)
What is that switch for, next to your headlight switch/knob?
Oops, thanks for the pic help.
That switch is for my secret weapon... I can't tell you, um as it's a secret.
Kidding... That's for the geeky airhorn I installed over the winter. I am still looking for a different switch I want more of a push button, but it works fine.
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