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Originally posted by Kokopellian:
This thread is raising awareness as we all type.
This has been one of the most personally interesting threads in quite some time.
I'm not sure I can easily clarify my thoughts on reparations and going back to Africa in a succinct manner for this forum. But I'll try. It appears to me that if one is wanting money in repayment for an ancestor being unfairly ripped from their place of origin, then yes, compensate them for it and return them to that place of origin where they would be, if not for the fact that the ancestor was removed.
I just believe that the logic behind the call for reparations is flawed. By that reasoning, we all need to pack up and move back to Europe, Asia, and Africa and let the Native Americans have the country back. But that's not realistic.
 Good discussion! Let's keep it going.
I hope to have the chance to meet you sometime at one of the Keller's mini-meets.
Last edited by IRingTwyce; 03/23/06 06:44 PM.
BrApple-its all in the way it is presented...but everythign on my resume is all me
TexasRealtor-I hope you spelling improves on your resume.
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Originally posted by RTStabler51:
Originally posted by Kokopellian:
Originally posted by RTStabler51:
At what point in time do people stop blaming the past and take responsibility for themselves and their lives?
Personally, I'm only 28 and I'm tired of being the 'evil white man'
But you are evil Ryan, and it's not just because you're white. 
All kidding aside. Even you are stereotyped! I know where you're coming from. I'm 31 and I don't deal drugs, shoot people, wear bling-bling, I've never been to jail, etc. I feel your pain. As you can see and feel for yourself racism, descrimination, etc. affects even those who do not share those views.
Right, but the whole discrimination thing, IMO, is used as a crutch for those who are to lazy to work through hardships. Discrimation affects all of us in different ways. In today's world there are too many successful minorities to continue using discrimination and racism as an excuse. If people really wanted to make their lives better they would make better decisions for themselves and their families such as Kane looks to have done. It starts some where. Too me be 'whitey,' it seems as if a lot of peoples want things handed to them and they don't want to work for them as people such as ourselves have done in our lives.
Discrimination, the race card, etc. are abused by people that are lazy at times. However, discrimination still exists and the ideal affects those that think the hard working minorities are looking for a handout. I've worked through hardships, but I've been blatantly discriminated against more times than I can count. The reason that it seems that minorities want things handed to them to you is in part due to that is the common ideal that is perpetuated in the media. It has been so ingrained that it has become an axiom.
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Originally posted by IRingTwyce:
we all need to pack up and move back to Europe
done and done!
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Originally posted by Kokopellian:
It always bothers me when someone says "I didn't own slaves" "I don't segregate" "I'm not racist" "I didn't do this, I wasn't a part of that, I never did this....." etc. It's not about what you did or didn't do, it's about what you're doing to make it better.
That bothers you? Why don't you celebrate the fact the we've got a generation of white folks that don't own slaves, that don't want segregation, and that don't want to be racist? Well if that's not good enough for you, what do you want? Reparations? Affirmative action?
Originally posted by Kokopellian:
I don't believe in reparations in the least, and I think that Affirmative Action is a nesscessity, but it's also a double-edged sword at the same time.
Yeah, I'd say that white people weren't doing enough, so long as I got an advantage when applying for a job. The fact about the double-edged is that the moment you claim that white people are doing enough, you have no further right to affirmative action.
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In my opinion, racism (to name one of MANY problems with societies as a whole) could easily be eliminated (as far as humanly possible) through education.
Low levels of education = More competition to survive = Finding a scapegoat for your circumstances
If we could only realize the importance of education and pump a shatload more money into school systems across the nation we'd be much better off, but oh well, thank god for bureaucracy 
Ignorance is the enemy, not individual people!
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Originally posted by deftoned989:
In my opinion, racism (to name one of MANY problems with societies as a whole) could easily be eliminated (as far as humanly possible) through education.
Low levels of education = More competition to survive = Finding a scapegoat for your circumstances
If we could only realize the importance of education and pump a shatload more money into school systems across the nation we'd be much better off, but oh well, thank god for bureaucracy
Ignorance is the enemy, not individual people!
You have to put forth effort to be educated. You can pump all the money you want into it, but if the students don't want it, its not going to sink in.
BTW, education is the answer to 90% of the world's problems...
Ryan
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Originally posted by RTStabler51:
BTW, education is the answer to 90% of the world's problems...
True, and at least we can agree on this.
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Originally posted by IRingTwyce:
Originally posted by SVTNupe:
And how many blacks were just screwed period? Unable to afford an education because of the Jim Crow laws, segragation and the like; the inability to learn, earn and work just like your fellow white American. Black Americans are playing catch up. The playing ground isn't level.
THE INABILITY TO LEARN, EARN, AND WORK?!?!?! That has to be the single-most idiotic thing I've ever read on this board. I sincerely hope that what you meant was the LACK OF OPPORTUNITY to learn, earn, and work. Otherwise you've just slapped down an entire race of humans.
With the current laws and social climate of today, I believe there is no reason that a minority person, whether black, asian, hispanic, or any other, can't succeed if they actually really want to. I have to agree with Bill Cosby's rant in this respect. Read about some of it here. If these comunities want to better themselves, they MUST change from within.
I realize this is a forum and one has to be cautious on what is posted or risk being flamed. At the same time, I believe a little common sense can be used to correctly interpret the point someone is trying to convey based on the content of their post. It was a poor choice of words to say inability as oppose to opportunity. I think most picked up on where I was going with the post in relation to the rest of the words that were written..
The point that many miss is the fact that blacks were held back as a culture. How can one say this hasn�t had ripple affect through the generations?
The fact of the matter is, we as blacks have to run harder (i.e. work harder) in this race to play catch up versus our average white counterpart. That was the reason affirmative action and many other programs were started. Enrollment at colleges and universities, as an example, was lopsided and our grand-parents and great grand-parents weren�t given the same opportunities to succeed educationally. Plain and simple. Why do you think enrollment was lopsided? Was it because they were dumb and couldn�t succeed? What happens when that same kid who couldn�t go to college (denied because of the color of his skin) has to work in the steel mill or some other blue collar job because the OPPORTUNITY to go to college was taken away from him and now that�s all he is qualified to do to earn a living; or his parents couldn�t afford to send him to college because they were held back by a system of racial laws that said that all they could do was be janitors and maids? What does that kid who grows up not much better off then his parents pass on to his children? The only thing he may have gotten a chance to learn is how jacked up the system is. That�s the ripple affect I�m trying to get across and why the field today is not level. Today many of us are passing on to our children what our parents and grand-parents couldn�t simply because now the opportunities are there for us. We can take advantage of them and it is up to us to grab hold of those opportunities. But what if that knowledge had been passed on 100 years ago? Would there have been the need to create affirmative action? Would there be more black owned business today? Would there be a better balance of black employees in executive management positions? Would jails not be full of young black men or ghettos primarily comprised of black Americans?
I agree 100% that we have to take hold of our situation and improve our position. We cannot hang our hats on discrimination and racism. They are not insurmountable hurdles to success. We have to find a way to succeed! But what I want our white brethren to realize is, WE DO HAVE TO WORK HARDER. That�s the whole point. If the playing field was level, then the need to work twice as hard to be comparable to person who may be half as good wouldn�t be necessary. Working twice as hard would mean one is twice as good; not just as good.
Discrimination will be hard to erase. It will always rear it�s ugly head in one form or another. Just don�t assume that because Jim Crow is gone that we all are now at the same level culturally. We are not. Nor am I saying that we sit back and whine about our situation looking for hand outs (reparations). Just be sensitive to the fact that an entire culture of people had been held back, force to start this race far behind the rest of our fellow runners.
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Originally posted by muntus:
Originally posted by Kokopellian:
It always bothers me when someone says "I didn't own slaves" "I don't segregate" "I'm not racist" "I didn't do this, I wasn't a part of that, I never did this....." etc. It's not about what you did or didn't do, it's about what you're doing to make it better.
That bothers you? Why don't you celebrate the fact the we've got a generation of white folks that don't own slaves, that don't want segregation, and that don't want to be racist? Well if that's not good enough for you, what do you want? Reparations? Affirmative action?
Originally posted by Kokopellian:
I don't believe in reparations in the least, and I think that Affirmative Action is a nesscessity, but it's also a double-edged sword at the same time.
Yeah, I'd say that white people weren't doing enough, so long as I got an advantage when applying for a job. The fact about the double-edged is that the moment you claim that white people are doing enough, you have no further right to affirmative action.
 
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Originally posted by RTStabler51:
Originally posted by deftoned989:
In my opinion, racism (to name one of MANY problems with societies as a whole) could easily be eliminated (as far as humanly possible) through education.
Low levels of education = More competition to survive = Finding a scapegoat for your circumstances
If we could only realize the importance of education and pump a shatload more money into school systems across the nation we'd be much better off, but oh well, thank god for bureaucracy
Ignorance is the enemy, not individual people!
You have to put forth effort to be educated. You can pump all the money you want into it, but if the students don't want it, its not going to sink in.
BTW, education is the answer to 90% of the world's problems...
Effort and $$$ unfortunately. 
2006 Mazdaspeed6
1997 Yamaha YZF1000R Thunderace
1996 Volvo 850-R
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