Contour Enthusiasts Group Archives Forums Modifications Transaxle ATF+4

He recommends Ford Honey. Preferably without added friction modifier. Add 2 oz of Ford Friction Modifier on an as needed basis.

I know this works as that is what I have in my car at the moment (with friction modifier). I'm continuing to look for reasonable alternatives that don't cost $20.00 a quart.

'There have been no complaints about many others,
such as Royal Purple, Pennzoil, Torco, and Specialty
Formulations. .....
.....and no lab tests to compare them with Ford fluid
either.....!!!!!

Here we go again.

How is a lab report comparing it to Ford Honey going to help? The lab report came back showing that Red Line MTL was "more of a gear oil".

During the everlasting thread Royal Purple changed their recommended fluid for the MTX-75 from a GL4 gear oil to synthetic motor oil. Even if that is Royal Purple's recommendation, I can't bring myself to use engine oil in a trans.

I did my own research and found that when the appropriate additives are used, there is no harm (in fact, a benefit) in using GL4 or even an appropriate GL5 fluid in a trans that may not need it. The additives that elevate it into GL4 or GL5 territory don't have to be the ones that lead to break down.

I'm sorry, but I'm just not buying that Ford Honey (or the Castrol equilevant that is not available in the US) is the only fluid for this trans. I'm also reasonably sure that it may not even be the best. I will grant that it has been an excellent product in my own car, but it is not worth $20.00 a quart.

Don't forget that Ford speced Mercon ATF for this trans for SEVERAL YEARS.

'Gear Oil Bunk'

The constant reference to 'gear oil' with the MTX75 is
a myth.The first consideration of what type of lube a
trans/gears need is dependant firstly on one thing,the
gear 'cut'.That is the type and angle the gear teeth
are cut at.In the 'stoc' unmodded MTX75 there are only
two types of gear cut,helical on all the gears and
straight cut bevel on the diff gears.The selection of
a lube is based on the cut which in turn tells you the
amount of tooth to tooth load/pressure.The gear cut
that has the lowest tooth to tooth load is the helical
cut,as in the MTX75.If you have a Torsen or Quaife
diff the gears in that type of diff are also helical
cut so you have removed the higher tooth pressure
straight cut gears found in a stock diff .From lowest
tooth pressure to highest the cuts go Low> Helical/
Semi-Helical/Straight/Hypoid>Highest.
The MTX75 does not need lubes for high tooth pressure
so why the hang up on 'gear lube'? An automatic trans
has 'gears' and most all are helical cut gears!!!! For
the sake of history almost all manual
transmissions,the gearbox not the rear end,have for
many years used normal straight or multi-grade engine
oils.If you re read the lab info on Ford honey you
will see that its base is a synth,multi-grade diesel
engine oil....this alone tells you the type of lube an
MTX needs.Why 'diesel'?....Because diesel engine oils
have high resistance to oxide formation and high
detergent propities.....both of which an MTX75
needs.Get off the 'gear oil' hype ,an MTX does not
need 'gear oils' and the main reason ATF was deleted
was due to its effect on the shift fork
bushes....making them tight on the shafts.The only
place for true 'gear oils' is in transmission with
high tooth loads which are set buy the cut of the
teeth,as an example check the lube that should be used
in a Quaife 'straight cut' gearset.Bottom
line....forget the 'gear lube' bunk spouted
around.....A close lube would be a synth ,multi-grade
diesel engine oil!!!!

I'm not going to go through this again. It was discussed ad nausium during the "everlasting thread".

Yes, the cut of the gear makes a difference on how much pressure the gear teeth are subjected to. The most severe is hypoid gears, which the MTX75 doesn't have.

But as I said before, using the correct EP (extreme pressure) additives does not harm the lubricant and provides better protection.

Differential gear oil is seldom appropriate for manual transmissions. It is the overall characteristics of the fluid that must be kept in balance.

If a vendor can provide a full synthetic that has the characteristics you described plus they can build in better gear load protection and improved friction modification in a package that is intended for manual transmission use and costs less than Ford Honey, why not use it?

So tell me, what full synthetic heavy duty diesel engine oil is priced at $20.00 a quart? If it is so critical to use Ford Honey, why doesn't Ford allow others to supply it? Also, why was ordinary ATF considered OK for several years?

I started this thread to show that there is another alternative. Still other alternatives include Torco and Specialty Formulations, and I actually feel that either of these would be an improvement over Ford Honey.

This will be my last post on this thread.

All any supplier has to do is submit lube to Ford with
proven test results that show that it meets
spec...WSD-M2C200-C......none have bothered!

I googled the spec and look what Royal Purple recommends ... surprisingly, it's NOT Synchromax ... it's straight 10W40 motor oil???

http://www.royalpurple.com/techa/tranxref.html

We know this. It's actually up to you what to run.

Todd
The website was updated and should read Synchromax or RP 10w40/ Racing 41. We are giving you an option.

Apparently the person doing the update did not understand and removed Synchromax as the recommended fluid.

Sorry for the misunderstanding.

Looks like the site was never changed though.

From TH
....ENGINE OIL!....is what Amsoil spec for the MTX!!
www.amsoil.com/storefront/afl.aspx
So 2 suppliers spec an engine oil...well no s**t! A synth engine oil is the base for honey, well well....no gear oil
huh!!!!

I have been researching the ATF4 for my dodge truck and from what I found the Amsoil ATF has been used successfully in the dodge automatic transmission meeting their ATF4 spec. I just took a quick look at the specs at the bottom of the page for the 5W-40 Amsoil and the ATF and they have very different Kinematic Viscosities. Does this mean anything you tell me I really don't know? But from what I have read there are a lot of, or special friction modifiers in the ATF4 lubricants.
Both my cars had the original ATF changed in the first 5000 miles to mobil1 trans fluid with no friction modifier it was then changed out around 70000 miles for redline. There was a little easier shifts in the cold with the redline. I will probably change the fluid in one of the cars soon and I will report if I find anything unusual. But I really don't know what fluid to change to.
Something interesting to think about Honda Specs synthetic motor oil for their manual transmission.