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Originally posted by RT and his SE:

Jeb? You're kidding with the oil embargo thing right?




Why not? It's about as rational as the arguments against this deal.


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Originally posted by RT and his SE:
Let's say your boss says instead of unloading 40 containers an hour(which is a good clip) do 20. Now instead of four days to unload a ship it takes 8 maybe 10 days. Multiply that times I don't know how many ships a day and you've got a huge backlog of businesses not getting what they need to operate. Whole ships can be put in quarantine so they can't be unloaded at all. Equipment mysteriously breaks down slowing the load/unload process.




Sounds like a union...


Must be that jumbly-wumbly thing happening again.
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Originally posted by Jeb Hoge:
Originally posted by RT and his SE:

Jeb? You're kidding with the oil embargo thing right?




Why not? It's about as rational as the arguments against this deal.




No it's not.
The US couldn't boycott anybodies oil now or in the near future. Unless you want to be paying $5 a gallon for gas. You know how well that would go...


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Originally posted by RT and his SE:
Originally posted by RTStabler51:
Originally posted by RT and his SE:
I'd rather error on the side of caution.





Really? So you agree with being pre-emptive then, eh?




The guys who said Saddam had WMDs are probably the same guys who say this deal checks out OK sooo...



Don't you watch the News?


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Russia tied to Iraq's missing arms


By Bill Gertz
THE WASHINGTON TIMES

Russian special forces troops moved many of Saddam Hussein's weapons and related goods out of Iraq and into Syria in the weeks before the March 2003 U.S. military operation, The Washington Times has learned.
John A. Shaw, the deputy undersecretary of defense for international technology security, said in an interview that he believes the Russian troops, working with Iraqi intelligence, "almost certainly" removed the high-explosive material that went missing from the Al-Qaqaa facility, south of Baghdad.

"The Russians brought in, just before the war got started, a whole series of military units," Mr. Shaw said. "Their main job was to shred all evidence of any of the contractual arrangements they had with the Iraqis. The others were transportation units."
Mr. Shaw, who was in charge of cataloging the tons of conventional arms provided to Iraq by foreign suppliers, said he recently obtained reliable information on the arms-dispersal program from two European intelligence services that have detailed knowledge of the Russian-Iraqi weapons collaboration.
Most of Saddam's most powerful arms were systematically separated from other arms like mortars, bombs and rockets, and sent to Syria and Lebanon, and possibly to Iran, he said.
The Russian involvement in helping disperse Saddam's weapons, including some 380 tons of RDX and HMX, is still being investigated, Mr. Shaw said.
The RDX and HMX, which are used to manufacture high-explosive and nuclear weapons, are probably of Russian origin, he said.
Pentagon spokesman Larry DiRita could not be reached for comment.
The disappearance of the material was reported in a letter Oct. 10 from the Iraqi government to the International Atomic Energy Agency.
Disclosure of the missing explosives Monday in a New York Times story was used by the Democratic presidential campaign of Sen. John Kerry, who accused the Bush administration of failing to secure the material.
Al-Qaqaa, a known Iraqi weapons site, was monitored closely, Mr. Shaw said.
"That was such a pivotal location, Number 1, that the mere fact of [special explosives] disappearing was impossible," Mr. Shaw said. "And Number 2, if the stuff disappeared, it had to have gone before we got there."
The Pentagon disclosed yesterday that the Al-Qaqaa facility was defended by Fedayeen Saddam, Special Republican Guard and other Iraqi military units during the conflict. U.S. forces defeated the defenders around April 3 and found the gates to the facility open, the Pentagon said in a statement yesterday.
A military unit in charge of searching for weapons, the Army's 75th Exploitation Task Force, then inspected Al-Qaqaa on May 8, May 11 and May 27, 2003, and found no high explosives that had been monitored in the past by the IAEA.
The Pentagon said there was no evidence of large-scale movement of explosives from the facility after April 6.
"The movement of 377 tons of heavy ordnance would have required dozens of heavy trucks and equipment moving along the same roadways as U.S. combat divisions occupied continually for weeks prior to and subsequent to the 3rd Infantry Division's arrival at the facility," the statement said.
The statement also said that the material may have been removed from the site by Saddam's regime.
According to the Pentagon, U.N. arms inspectors sealed the explosives at Al-Qaqaa in January 2003 and revisited the site in March and noted that the seals were not broken.
It is not known whether the inspectors saw the explosives in March. The U.N. team left the country before the U.S.-led invasion began March 20, 2003.
A second defense official said documents on the Russian support to Iraq reveal that Saddam's government paid the Kremlin for the special forces to provide security for Iraq's Russian arms and to conduct counterintelligence activities designed to prevent U.S. and Western intelligence services from learning about the arms pipeline through Syria.
The Russian arms-removal program was initiated after Yevgeny Primakov, the former Russian intelligence chief, could not persuade Saddam to give in to U.S. and Western demands, this official said.
A small portion of Iraq's 650,000 tons to 1 million tons of conventional arms that were found after the war were looted after the U.S.-led invasion, Mr. Shaw said. Russia was Iraq's largest foreign supplier of weaponry, he said.
However, the most important and useful arms and explosives appear to have been separated and moved out as part of carefully designed program. "The organized effort was done in advance of the conflict," Mr. Shaw said.
The Russian forces were tasked with moving special arms out of the country.
Mr. Shaw said foreign intelligence officials believe the Russians worked with Saddam's Mukhabarat intelligence service to separate out special weapons, including high explosives and other arms and related technology, from standard conventional arms spread out in some 200 arms depots.
The Russian weapons were then sent out of the country to Syria, and possibly Lebanon in Russian trucks, Mr. Shaw said.
Mr. Shaw said he believes that the withdrawal of Russian-made weapons and explosives from Iraq was part of plan by Saddam to set up a "redoubt" in Syria that could be used as a base for launching pro-Saddam insurgency operations in Iraq.
The Russian units were dispatched beginning in January 2003 and by March had destroyed hundreds of pages of documents on Russian arms supplies to Iraq while dispersing arms to Syria, the second official said.
Besides their own weapons, the Russians were supplying Saddam with arms made in Ukraine, Belarus, Bulgaria and other Eastern European nations, he said.
"Whatever was not buried was put on lorries and sent to the Syrian border," the defense official said.
Documents reviewed by the official included itineraries of military units involved in the truck shipments to Syria. The materials outlined in the documents included missile components, MiG jet parts, tank parts and chemicals used to make chemical weapons, the official said.
The director of the Iraqi government front company known as the Al Bashair Trading Co. fled to Syria, where he is in charge of monitoring arms holdings and funding Iraqi insurgent activities, the official said.
Also, an Arabic-language report obtained by U.S. intelligence disclosed the extent of Russian armaments. The 26-page report was written by Abdul Tawab Mullah al Huwaysh, Saddam's minister of military industrialization, who was captured by U.S. forces May 2, 2003.
The Russian "spetsnaz" or special-operations forces were under the GRU military intelligence service and organized large commercial truck convoys for the weapons removal, the official said.
Regarding the explosives, the new Iraqi government reported that 194.7 metric tons of HMX, or high-melting-point explosive, and 141.2 metric tons of RDX, or rapid-detonation explosive, and 5.8 metric tons of PETN, or pentaerythritol tetranitrate, were missing.
The material is used in nuclear weapons and also in making military "plastic" high explosive.
Defense officials said the Russians can provide information on what happened to the Iraqi weapons and explosives that were transported out of the country. Officials believe the Russians also can explain what happened to Iraq's weapons of mass destruction programs.


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I don't remember hearing much about that in the mainstream press back in 2005. How much air time did it get? Did it ever get to the front page of any paper? Gee, the media must have accidentally missed the story on the largest & most successful intelligence operation in the history of the planet... For a year & counting... Now that's a successful operation - it continues to elude the US press even now... Even after a former Iraqi general describes in his published book how the operation was carried out - in detail, the Ruskies still manage to pull the wool over the eyes of the press...

Shocking... Tricky those Rooskies...


Must be that jumbly-wumbly thing happening again.
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Somebody give the turntable a shove 'cause the records skipping!

I was trying to make a funny not jack this thread but apparently you guys are still a little sensitive about that whole WMD thing.


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Originally posted by TourDeForce:
I don't remember hearing much about that in the mainstream press back in 2005. How much air time did it get? Did it ever get to the front page of any paper? Gee, the media must have accidentally missed the story on the largest & most successful intelligence operation in the history of the planet... For a year & counting... Now that's a successful operation - it continues to elude the US press even now... Even after a former Iraqi general describes in his published book how the operation was carried out - in detail, the Ruskies still manage to pull the wool over the eyes of the press...

Shocking... Tricky those Rooskies...



If those stories had much credibility, don't you think Shrub would have been shouting about them from the rooftops?


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Haha, this is great.

Americans pay $$$$ -> UAE for gas.

This money allows the UAE to have control over company that will take over US commerce ports.

UAE has terrorist, zealous islamic links.

UAE uses money from Americans to purchase ports.

UAE is now privvy to classified port security.

If this ever goes through, expect a nuclear detonation in one of the port cities by 2010.

How stupid is Bush saying he will veto any attempts to block it. The conflict of interest implications are so staggering its mind boggling to see why any government would allow this; especially the US when the country is on terror alert.

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Originally posted by ODC:
Haha, this is great.

Americans pay $$$$ -> UAE for gas.

This money allows the UAE to have control over company that will take over US commerce ports.

UAE has terrorist, zealous islamic links.

UAE uses money from Americans to purchase ports.

UAE is now privvy to classified port security.

If this ever goes through, expect a nuclear detonation in one of the port cities by 2010.

How stupid is Bush saying he will veto any attempts to block it. The conflict of interest implications are so staggering its mind boggling to see why any government would allow this; especially the US when the country is on terror alert.


I guess I don't grasp this whole 'security' concern. Port security has sucked ass for a very long time, and will continue to suck ass for a very long time. Hell, security in general in this country sucks. Why? Because the American citizen does not want to be inconvienced by security, or they cry 'my civil liberties are being taken away.' If a terrorist wants to get something in this country to harm us, they are going to. Period. ESPECIALLY through the ports. 4-6 of every 100 containers is actually inspected, and most likely that will be the future trend as well. This UAE company has something like 55 ports it operates THROUGH OUT THE WORLD. Its not like all of a sudden all the American workers in these ports are going to be fired and all of a sudden your going to have a bunch of Osama Bin Ladens running around screaming jihad at the top of their longs.


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