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Joined: Aug 2003
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Hard-core CEG\'er
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Hard-core CEG\'er
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 4,140 |
In general, a bigger front bar results in more understeer, and I'd yell at someone for saying they would have used one. However, this is weargle, so he's probably being sarcastic or more likely, serious about reducing body roll. The heavier front bar combined with a stiff rear bar and aftermarket springs can certainly be tuned to be neutral. I am thinking about drilling holes in my bar so I can move the endlinks down and make it stiffer, if my new rear springs (425lb/in from 280lb/in) and Aussie bar make the car too twitchy. The extra front weight transfer will make the car tend to understeer, but if the front tires have better camber because the car is rolling less, then maybe it won't end up understeering. It's all a matter of looking at the suspension as a whole instead of isolation.
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Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 3,867
Hard-core CEG'er
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Hard-core CEG'er
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Originally posted by weargle:
Dang, I wish that I had discovered that there was a larger front bar available. I certainly would have used it.
You mean, such as the "standard" 20mm bar?
Frankly, I propose that if you are lifting the inside rear consistently, you have achieved rear bar overkill. At least, that's what Master Puhn would say.
YMMV.
Function before fashion.
'96 Contour SE
"Toss the Contour into a corner, and it's as easy to catch as a softball thrown by a preschooler." -Edmunds, 1998
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Joined: May 2002
Posts: 21,653
I have no life
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I have no life
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 21,653 |
Yeah, I think if you're lifting on every single corner, it's too much. But is it possible to have a good all around car (following sts rules) without sometimes 3 wheeling?
98.5 SVT
91 Escort GT (almost sold)
96 ATX Zetec (i brake to watch you swerve)
FS: SVT rear sway bar
WTB: Very cheap beater
CEG Dragon Run - October 13-15
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Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 4,140
Hard-core CEG\'er
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Hard-core CEG\'er
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Ideally you want all four wheels on the ground. But a properly tuned car within STS limits might actually be fastest with some slight lift in the hard bends. There's so little weight back there that you might be able to have just one tire keep the whole back of the car in line! However, when you're way up like I was, the front outside tire is in a VERY unhappy place, and you'll not be very quick. That was definetly too much rear bar for those springs, and I would have been faster with a softer bar, had I kept the stock springs.
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Joined: Oct 2000
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Originally posted by Auto-X Fil:
In general, a bigger front bar results in more understeer, and I'd yell at someone for saying they would have used one. However, this is weargle, so he's probably being sarcastic or more likely, serious about reducing body roll. The heavier front bar combined with a stiff rear bar and aftermarket springs can certainly be tuned to be neutral. I am thinking about drilling holes in my bar so I can move the endlinks down and make it stiffer, if my new rear springs (425lb/in from 280lb/in) and Aussie bar make the car too twitchy. The extra front weight transfer will make the car tend to understeer, but if the front tires have better camber because the car is rolling less, then maybe it won't end up understeering. It's all a matter of looking at the suspension as a whole instead of isolation.
My "only" suspension mods are Koni/Roush at each corner, and poly bushings on the stock 19mm rear bar. With the SE, I have a 20mm front. Depending on conditions (telemetry) I can get oversteer or understeer. Depends a lot on braking, corner entry and exit speeds, etc. I never got oversteer on my stock setup, even with the poly bushings.
I have an SVT front, and that's my next step with the suspension. It looks like a complete PITA to install, though, and I'm not even sure how to approach it. Frankly, I'm a little scared of it.
At any rate I'm not beefing up the rear until I see what the SVT front bar will do for me. Remember that the whole torsional rigidity thing is logarithmic (or is that "exponential?), so small changes can make a significant difference.
Of course, Weargle has quite a successful record, so I can't argue with that.
Function before fashion.
'96 Contour SE
"Toss the Contour into a corner, and it's as easy to catch as a softball thrown by a preschooler." -Edmunds, 1998
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Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 751
Veteran CEG\'er
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Veteran CEG\'er
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 751 |
On second thought, I should have added poly bushings on the front bar and fabricated stiffer endlinks.
When I went from a 1" front bar to a 1-1/8" bar in the Miata, I also went to beefier endlinks from Racing Beat. That transformed the car into being much more controllable and really planted the rear.
Having a better anti-roll system in the front would have made similar benefits, I'd bet.
My rule of thumb is that work on one end of the car either frees or tightens up the other. So if you have too much roll in the rear, you use the front to tighten it back down.
Whirling dervish of FFOG.
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Hard-core CEG\'er
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Hard-core CEG\'er
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Steves subframe connecters would help too.
99 TRed Contour SVT # 1853 out of 2760
230.2 WHP @ 6500
237.0 WTR @ 2250
Originally posted by MxRacer:
Originally posted by RawBurt:
I'll be keeping it to myself, until the time comes. It'll be hard to find. 
much like your weiner.
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Joined: Mar 2003
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Then welcome to Streed Mod.
Whirling dervish of FFOG.
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Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 122
CEG\'er
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OP
CEG\'er
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As far as tripoding, I don't worry about that. I've been seeing that since the early days in club racing with the VW rabbits buzzing around Lime Rock. They would always get up on threes. It justs looks like plain old fun to me.
What I don't understand is this, I've been reading all these posts and threads about a whole bunch of mods and speed enhancements that everybody does to their cars, but to what end? So they can drive to work faster? Maybe I'm just weird but I'd really like to push it to the limit. Even if it's just stock for now. Find out what it has got, find out what I've got and just have fun.
For Sale 98+ SVT gauge cluster
'98 Mystique LS
2.5l 5spd
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