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Hey guys...first post here, but I've already browsed this site and found a lot of useful info.
My fiancee's 98 contour has been having a idling problem, and I suspected a vacuum leak since she was also having problems with the brakes. They took it to a shop and told her it was going to be $700 to fix it. 98% of that cost is labor no doubt, they told them something about having to pull the motor to fix it, but I think that's BS.
I'm no expert on Contours, but I am good with a wrench and have done motor swaps and cam installs and everything under the sun with Pontiac Grand Prix GTP's, which are also FWD V6's (not DOHC, but still). If it is possible, and maybe someone on this great site has done a write up on it, I was considering doing it myself to save her the money, because we don't have alot saving for a wedding and all. And I was almost SURE I've seen a write up on here when I was searching for other info on her car here.
So what do you think guys, is it possible? Is there a GOOD write up out there? I don't doubt my mechanical skills, but I don't want to get into somethign way over my head either with no guide to go by.
Thanks alot!
Neal
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Originally posted by ndolsongtp:
Hey guys...first post here, but I've already browsed this site and found a lot of useful info.
My fiancee's 98 contour has been having a idling problem, and I suspected a vacuum leak since she was also having problems with the brakes. They took it to a shop and told her it was going to be $700 to fix it. 98% of that cost is labor no doubt, they told them something about having to pull the motor to fix it, but I think that's BS.
I'm no expert on Contours, but I am good with a wrench and have done motor swaps and cam installs and everything under the sun with Pontiac Grand Prix GTP's, which are also FWD V6's (not DOHC, but still). If it is possible, and maybe someone on this great site has done a write up on it, I was considering doing it myself to save her the money, because we don't have alot saving for a wedding and all. And I was almost SURE I've seen a write up on here when I was searching for other info on her car here.
So what do you think guys, is it possible? Is there a GOOD write up out there? I don't doubt my mechanical skills, but I don't want to get into somethign way over my head either with no guide to go by.
Thanks alot!
Neal
Click the link That's the link for tearing down and rebuilding the UIM/LIM for cleaning. Although her idling problem could be many things, i would also check the Idle air control valve. Most of the info you are looking for is stickied at the top of this forum.
#3162 of 6535
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Actually, the IAC was the very first thing I replaced. I've had them go bad on many of my cars before with identical symptoms. The problems with the brakes not working/being very hard to use existed before the IAC replacement, and I thought maybe that was due to the engine idling so low, bogging down, even dying, it wasn't getting sufficient vacuum pressure. When the brake problem still existed after I replaced the IAC, and so did the other problems, I was 99% sure it had to be a vacuum leak.
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I just got a quote from the mechanic I always use at ~$435-450 to do both UIM and LIM gaskets. Better than 700  but still. Bite the bullet and do it myself and save my woman $350+?
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Originally posted by ndolsongtp:
I just got a quote from the mechanic I always use at ~$435-450 to do both UIM and LIM gaskets. Better than 700 but still.
Bite the bullet and do it myself and save my woman $350+?
Dude you have swapped engines!! tearing down the UIM/LIM is cake! I can do it in a 15 minutes, i say go for it! Hell i tore mine down 3 weeks ago to replace my plugs  it's much easier to get to the plugs with the UIM off. I also found that the little white grommet that holds the lever in place that pulls the secondart shaft open was MIA  While you have it all torn down you might as well give it a good cleaning as per those instructions! also a good time to replace misc gaskets and the EGR valve.
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See, this is the kind of information I'm looking for. I feel if I have a good write up I'm good to go. If it's really not as major as it looks, then I'm game. I just look at that engine crammed in that tiny engine bay and I say "uhhh...yeah". I got used to my GTP's pushrod supercharged V6 motor in a nice big engine bay I guess.
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Bah. You work on one you can do them all for the most part.
-'96 SE MTX 3L
-'98 SVT 1,173 of 6,535
-'05 Mazda 6s, loaded, g/f's ride
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Any specialized tools I might need? I have the typical socket site, ratcheting wrenches, screw drivers, extensions, and a torque wrench...that it? Any tricks of the trade tools to make this easier?
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For intake manifold removal and replacement, no, you've got more than I think I had when I did mine. If you're intending to do the big cleaning job on it, then you'll need supplies and a place to make a mess, but to pop it off and on, it's no biggie.
"Think of it, if you like, as a librarian with a G-string under the tweed." Clarkson on the Mondeo.
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yeah, I'm not going to do too much cleaning. I do have some carb cleaner, and if I decide to, I'll use that to remove the carbon build up.
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it would be worth the time cleaning it while you have them off.. if they are really dirty its robbing her of HP and fuel econonmy
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Well, I'll do a once over with some carb cleaner or something. As far as gas mileage is concerned, that may be of some interest to us, as she is only getting ~19-20 average with 70% highway driving. I think that's pretty poor for a V6.
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Originally posted by ndolsongtp:
Any specialized tools I might need? I have the typical socket site, ratcheting wrenches, screw drivers, extensions, and a torque wrench...that it? Any tricks of the trade tools to make this easier?
A fuel line disconnect tool. Not sure if you can remove the lower intake manifold with it in place or not. I always remove it. I don't pull the injectors. I just leave them and the fuel rail attached to the lower and spray it out with Berrymans.
-'96 SE MTX 3L
-'98 SVT 1,173 of 6,535
-'05 Mazda 6s, loaded, g/f's ride
-Need a 96-00 manual on CD? PM or email me
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Bingo... WHATEVER YOU DO.. DON'T CUT THOSE FUEL LINES!!! you can't simply "splice" or mend them. nor can you buy a replacement.. it is fused to the metal supply lines on the driver's side and is replaced with the rubber hoses.. (all the way to the fuel pump!!!)
Anyway... fuel line disconnect tool.
'99 CSVT - Silver #222/276
In a constant state of blow-off euphoria.
Originally posted by Kremitthefrog:
I like to wear dresses and use binoculars to watch grandmas across the street.
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Originally posted by todras:
Originally posted by ndolsongtp:
Any specialized tools I might need? I have the typical socket site, ratcheting wrenches, screw drivers, extensions, and a torque wrench...that it? Any tricks of the trade tools to make this easier?
A fuel line disconnect tool. Not sure if you can remove the lower intake manifold with it in place or not. I always remove it. I don't pull the injectors. I just leave them and the fuel rail attached to the lower and spray it out with Berrymans.
You can remove the lower with out disconnecting the fuel line... I know the CAP CEG guys can chime in on this one, i didn't disconnect it when i removed mine and i don't think any of them did either at our mod/maintainence meet
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the LIM comes out.. but not the fuel rail....
'99 CSVT - Silver #222/276
In a constant state of blow-off euphoria.
Originally posted by Kremitthefrog:
I like to wear dresses and use binoculars to watch grandmas across the street.
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So you guys just pull injectors and unbolt the FR from the LIM?
-'96 SE MTX 3L
-'98 SVT 1,173 of 6,535
-'05 Mazda 6s, loaded, g/f's ride
-Need a 96-00 manual on CD? PM or email me
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Originally posted by todras:
So you guys just pull injectors and unbolt the FR from the LIM?
Yup.
#3162 of 6535
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I just remove the lines because less possibility of having an injector issue with an o-ring or inj. not seated properly. 6 of 1, 1/2 a dozen of another.
-'96 SE MTX 3L
-'98 SVT 1,173 of 6,535
-'05 Mazda 6s, loaded, g/f's ride
-Need a 96-00 manual on CD? PM or email me
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If I am going that far in to it, I'll replace the injector o-rings as it is, anyway.
'99 CSVT - Silver #222/276
In a constant state of blow-off euphoria.
Originally posted by Kremitthefrog:
I like to wear dresses and use binoculars to watch grandmas across the street.
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Originally posted by ndolsongtp:
As far as gas mileage is concerned, that may be of some interest to us, as she is only getting ~19-20 average with 70% highway driving. I think that's pretty poor for a V6.
Man maybe I should take mine apart and clean it too.I'm only hitting 15 to 17 mpg.Already replaced plugs and filters.
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Originally posted by Ray:
Bingo... WHATEVER YOU DO.. DON'T CUT THOSE FUEL LINES!!! you can't simply "splice" or mend them. nor can you buy a replacement.. it is fused to the metal supply lines on the driver's side and is replaced with the rubber hoses.. (all the way to the fuel pump!!!)
Anyway... fuel line disconnect tool.
Been awhile, checking back. I'm going to jump into this project tonight now that I got the parts I needed:
UIM/LIM gaskets (from oreillys for $34..nice)
IMRC linkage grommets (2)
Fuel Rail to Mani seal (6)...(will I need these if I don't remove the fuel rails???)
Beer (12)
By the way, I didn't get the injector o-rings, as I am hoping I don't have to/need to remove the injectors?
I don't know if it's the same, but I figure it probably is since you are referring to the fuel line disconnect tool (J tool), I have always been able to use a small screw driver and press in the tabs on the fuel lines and been able to remove them without the tool. Thats how it is on my grand prix at least.
I'm not doing the full out rebuild that is given in the write up I got from here, just replacing UIM/LIM gaskets and cleaning them as best I can. Time is of importance here, and she just needs the car back ASAP!
Hopefully all goes well and I can finish it this evening. Won't be home from work until ~5:30 and don't want to be up all night doing this!
So I
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Fuel Rail to Mani seal ? That's not for anything on the Contour. Just need the UIM/LIM gaskets. 4 gaskets total. The o-rings should be fine. I've done a ton of cleanings and always reused. No way you're getting the lines disconnected with a screw driver. You're going to need the tool. Either that or pull out the injectors. Doing all this and not cleaning everything is idiotic. You'll get better gas mileage, smoother running engine and better acceleration when passing. I can do a tear down and rebuild in an hour or 2 so with a good cleaning of everything. The time is in cleaning the UIM. Soaking the inside with Berrymans.
-'96 SE MTX 3L
-'98 SVT 1,173 of 6,535
-'05 Mazda 6s, loaded, g/f's ride
-Need a 96-00 manual on CD? PM or email me
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OK, advice noted. What's this Berrymans stuff? Is it just like carb cleaner? I am just anal about reusing seals/gaskets, because if I start it up and something isn't working right, that's just one more thing I have to look at.
Do the fuel lines not have 4 little clips inside the lip on it? Every other fuel line I've ever seen does and I've had no problems.
I read through the write up again, and it doesn't sound too terribly time consuming...but there's always something that happens it seems.
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The fuel rail locks are a spring - buy the damn $4 tool and stop being a hack! 
2000 SVT Turbo 295hp/269ftlb@12psi
#1 for Bendix Brakes Kits!
Knuckles rebuilt w/new bearings $55
AUSSIE ENDLINKS $70
Gutted pre-cats $80/set
A lack of planning on your part does not constitute an emergency on mine!
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Where at? O'Reilly's only has the "J tool"
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Originally posted by todras:
Fuel Rail to Mani seal ?
You never answered this but I was just told by Terry that. on early V6's with SIDE FEED injectors you are well advised to change the RED disc seals under the injector where it sits into the LIM. These are prone to harden and cause air leaks over time. You have a 98 though so you don't have this. Just the 4 gaskets.
-'96 SE MTX 3L
-'98 SVT 1,173 of 6,535
-'05 Mazda 6s, loaded, g/f's ride
-Need a 96-00 manual on CD? PM or email me
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What I was referring to was in the write up and the parts section there was (Fuel rail to lower intake manifold seals F5RZ-9P867-A) that were highly recommended to be changed. I must have overlooked that it was for 1995-1997 only.
OK...looks like I can take the parts back. I think I overlooked the (95-97 only) next to the parts write up.
OK...now O'Reilly's is telling me they have what I need for the fuel rails. I check to see if I can still do it by popping the little tabs though.
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BTW...could someone explain this berryman's stuff to me? Is it somehow better at removing carbon build up than regular carb cleaner?
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Berrymans is in a pourable can and make normal carb cleaner seem like water.
2000 SVT Turbo 295hp/269ftlb@12psi
#1 for Bendix Brakes Kits!
Knuckles rebuilt w/new bearings $55
AUSSIE ENDLINKS $70
Gutted pre-cats $80/set
A lack of planning on your part does not constitute an emergency on mine!
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Originally posted by ndolsongtp:
OK...now O'Reilly's is telling me they have what I need for the fuel rails. I check to see if I can still do it by popping the little tabs though.
You need this...
Can be found almost anywhere.
-'96 SE MTX 3L
-'98 SVT 1,173 of 6,535
-'05 Mazda 6s, loaded, g/f's ride
-Need a 96-00 manual on CD? PM or email me
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Originally posted by Stazi:
Berrymans is in a pourable can and make normal carb cleaner seem like water.
I buy the aerosol. About 6 cans for a full good cleaning. About $3-4 a can.
-'96 SE MTX 3L
-'98 SVT 1,173 of 6,535
-'05 Mazda 6s, loaded, g/f's ride
-Need a 96-00 manual on CD? PM or email me
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I buy a can or two of Beryyman's for the UIM and then a can or two of Valvoline TB cleaner for the LIM and valves.
Seafoam is an alternative to the Berrymans if you can't find it.
2000 SVT Turbo 295hp/269ftlb@12psi
#1 for Bendix Brakes Kits!
Knuckles rebuilt w/new bearings $55
AUSSIE ENDLINKS $70
Gutted pre-cats $80/set
A lack of planning on your part does not constitute an emergency on mine!
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110k on my car and never been done. either one of you two jokers wanna come down over xmas and do some wrenchin'? if you're lucky i'll let you change the virgin antifreeze too! 
-- 1999 SVT #220 --
In retrospect, it was all downhill from here. RIP, CEG.
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Well, since I didn't know the diameter of the fuel lines, I didn't get the exact tool mentioned above...but I did get these little plastic rings that snap over the fuel line and essentially do the same thing.
Getting ready to jump into this now. Wish me like, I just might be back here needing help later tonight (I hope not)
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Originally posted by Stazi:
I buy a can or two of Beryyman's for the UIM and then a can or two of Valvoline TB cleaner for the LIM and valves.
Seafoam is an alternative to the Berrymans if you can't find it.
Just don't let too much of it run down inside the engine. Otherwise you will be pulling the plugs to get the engine to turn over.
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Originally posted by 2X95SEs:
Originally posted by Stazi:
I buy a can or two of Beryyman's for the UIM and then a can or two of Valvoline TB cleaner for the LIM and valves.
Seafoam is an alternative to the Berrymans if you can't find it.
Just don't let too much of it run down inside the engine. Otherwise you will be pulling the plugs to get the engine to turn over.
Never had an issue - trust me I know what I'm doing. 
2000 SVT Turbo 295hp/269ftlb@12psi
#1 for Bendix Brakes Kits!
Knuckles rebuilt w/new bearings $55
AUSSIE ENDLINKS $70
Gutted pre-cats $80/set
A lack of planning on your part does not constitute an emergency on mine!
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Hey, I know you started on this last night, but I do have an uncomplete website I put up (I have no time to finish) but it has a step-by-step with pics of the complete teardown of what you are trying to do. I have done it about three times myself and after the first time its really easy. I had NO LUCK with the Berryman's (just my experience) and the only thing that would TOUCH the gunk on the LIM and UIM was oven cleaner from Food Lion Grocery Store. After spraying it in the UIM and LIM heavily, I took them to the coin-pressure wash place and the gunk came out without much effort. I never got a chance to try the SeaFoam. Oh, a word on the fuel injectors - be sure they are secure in the fuel rail when reassembling - one of mine wasnt and DANGEROUSLY was leaking fuel on top of the engine. I had to tear everything apart again and reseat it. I hope this helps: Hal's How To This site will eventually change hosts (sometime this coming summer) but for now it will be a good link. Good luck!
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OVEN CLEANER!? You do know that it is WAY to caustic for Aluminum!  Back to Chem 101 
2000 SVT Turbo 295hp/269ftlb@12psi
#1 for Bendix Brakes Kits!
Knuckles rebuilt w/new bearings $55
AUSSIE ENDLINKS $70
Gutted pre-cats $80/set
A lack of planning on your part does not constitute an emergency on mine!
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OMG. Did my brothers 95 Mystique last spring. Yep 10 year old car and the UIM had never been clean. 6 cans of Berrymans did the trick. Just keept spraying it on the carbon. Almost everyone on the site uses Berrymans and never heard of a complaint. Oven Cleaner?! You have to be kidding me. Don't know what you were doing. Spraying a little on isn't going to eat it off. You might have to use some vinyl bristle brushes too.
-'96 SE MTX 3L
-'98 SVT 1,173 of 6,535
-'05 Mazda 6s, loaded, g/f's ride
-Need a 96-00 manual on CD? PM or email me
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Oh well, I guess I'm the biggest idiot on CEG. My CSVT is now completely ruined cause I used cheap over cleaner on my engine. I guess I might as well take it to the junkyard. It could break down at any second, guess I'd better quit driving it. BTW, no scrubbing required, the over cleaner broke up the carbon buildup so well, that the pressure washer cleaned it up really well. And this wasnt my idea, one of the cool Canadian CEG'ers told me about it. I was so frustrated at the expensive Berryman's that I was desperate for anything. Anyways, let us know how it comes out!!!
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Originally posted by hsoverma:
I was so frustrated at the expensive Berryman's that I was desperate for anything.
Anyways, let us know how it comes out!!!
$20 is expensive?! 
-'96 SE MTX 3L
-'98 SVT 1,173 of 6,535
-'05 Mazda 6s, loaded, g/f's ride
-Need a 96-00 manual on CD? PM or email me
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Berrymans is like $6 a can!
2000 SVT Turbo 295hp/269ftlb@12psi
#1 for Bendix Brakes Kits!
Knuckles rebuilt w/new bearings $55
AUSSIE ENDLINKS $70
Gutted pre-cats $80/set
A lack of planning on your part does not constitute an emergency on mine!
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Joined: May 2000
Posts: 21,197
I have no life
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I have no life
Joined: May 2000
Posts: 21,197 |
Is it? Well, it's worth it IMO.
-'96 SE MTX 3L
-'98 SVT 1,173 of 6,535
-'05 Mazda 6s, loaded, g/f's ride
-Need a 96-00 manual on CD? PM or email me
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Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 10,015
Hard-core CEG'er
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Hard-core CEG'er
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 10,015 |
2000 SVT Turbo 295hp/269ftlb@12psi
#1 for Bendix Brakes Kits!
Knuckles rebuilt w/new bearings $55
AUSSIE ENDLINKS $70
Gutted pre-cats $80/set
A lack of planning on your part does not constitute an emergency on mine!
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Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 44
New CEG\'er
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OP
New CEG\'er
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 44 |
I finished the disassembly last night in ~1 hour 15 minutes. Piece of cake. I cleaned all the gasket material off and realized that I didn't have the proper 1/2" drive to 1/4" drive adapter for my torque wrench, all the parts stores were closed, so there was no reassembly last night. It's good I guess, because I didn't get around to cleaning the UIM/LIM's yet.
Get this. The sparkplugs are supposed to be gapped @ 1.3mm (.052). Well all the ones I pulled looked HORRIBLE, and were gapped at ~1.8mm. My guage only goes to 2mm LMAO. Uh, I believe they were in dire need of being changed.
Also...about the UIM/LIM gaskets. I pulled them off, they looked kinda old and of course dirty, but if they were leaking wouldn't there be a crack in them somewhere, or some sort of obvious to the eye defect? Or no?
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Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 7,100
Addicted CEG\'er
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Addicted CEG\'er
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 7,100 |
hohly crap.. I pay like.. 4.00 for a can
'99 CSVT - Silver #222/276
In a constant state of blow-off euphoria.
Originally posted by Kremitthefrog:
I like to wear dresses and use binoculars to watch grandmas across the street.
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Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 10,015
Hard-core CEG'er
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Hard-core CEG'er
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 10,015 |
Originally posted by Ray:
hohly crap.. I pay like.. 4.00 for a can
I was guessing worse-case-scenario.
2000 SVT Turbo 295hp/269ftlb@12psi
#1 for Bendix Brakes Kits!
Knuckles rebuilt w/new bearings $55
AUSSIE ENDLINKS $70
Gutted pre-cats $80/set
A lack of planning on your part does not constitute an emergency on mine!
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Joined: May 2000
Posts: 21,197
I have no life
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I have no life
Joined: May 2000
Posts: 21,197 |
Originally posted by ndolsongtp:
I finished the disassembly last night in ~1 hour 15 minutes. Piece of cake. I cleaned all the gasket material off and realized that I didn't have the proper 1/2" drive to 1/4" drive adapter for my torque wrench, all the parts stores were closed, so there was no reassembly last night. It's good I guess, because I didn't get around to cleaning the UIM/LIM's yet.
Get this. The sparkplugs are supposed to be gapped @ 1.3mm (.052). Well all the ones I pulled looked HORRIBLE, and were gapped at ~1.8mm. My guage only goes to 2mm LMAO. Uh, I believe they were in dire need of being changed.
Also...about the UIM/LIM gaskets. I pulled them off, they looked kinda old and of course dirty, but if they were leaking wouldn't there be a crack in them somewhere, or some sort of obvious to the eye defect? Or no?
No they don't have to have a visible crack. They get old and warp etc. Easier to change plugs too with everything off. You got some Autolite APP764's to put back in right? The required double plat if you don't want to go with the more expensive ford double's.
-'96 SE MTX 3L
-'98 SVT 1,173 of 6,535
-'05 Mazda 6s, loaded, g/f's ride
-Need a 96-00 manual on CD? PM or email me
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Joined: May 2000
Posts: 21,197
I have no life
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I have no life
Joined: May 2000
Posts: 21,197 |
Originally posted by Stazi:
Originally posted by Ray:
hohly crap.. I pay like.. 4.00 for a can
I was guessing worse-case-scenario.
Hey look it's Staz the new resident BSer. 
-'96 SE MTX 3L
-'98 SVT 1,173 of 6,535
-'05 Mazda 6s, loaded, g/f's ride
-Need a 96-00 manual on CD? PM or email me
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Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 10,015
Hard-core CEG'er
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Hard-core CEG'er
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 10,015 |
WTF?  I was going off memory and guessing the worst you have to pay was $6 a can, not $20 like the other guy said. Get off my tip bish!
2000 SVT Turbo 295hp/269ftlb@12psi
#1 for Bendix Brakes Kits!
Knuckles rebuilt w/new bearings $55
AUSSIE ENDLINKS $70
Gutted pre-cats $80/set
A lack of planning on your part does not constitute an emergency on mine!
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Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 84
CEG\'er
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CEG\'er
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 84 |
Oh Yes, one other thing ndolsongtp that I though about that may be causing the idle problems:
After I cleaned and rebuilt my car's intake and fixed the injector problem, I was having idling problems and getting really bad gas mileage. It ended up being a vacuum leak at the point where the two vacuum lines that come from the braking system hook up to the upper intake manifold. The plastic retainers had broken apart and there was not a good seal.
I went to local Ford dealership and bought the replacement hardware (came with gasket, plastic retainer, and brass fittings) and just replaced the gaskets and retainers. Problem solved!
The point is to do your best to make sure the are no leaks after the mass air flow meter, or else the computer will think you have less air going into the engine than what you really do. This can cause some problems (including too lean)
Let us know how it all goes!!
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Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 44
New CEG\'er
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OP
New CEG\'er
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 44 |
I got the Bosch platinum plugs, Autozone said they were factory replacements. Since I don't trust the parts people at those kinds of stores, I double checked online and confirmed it. As far as I could tell, none of the vacuum lines had any issues. The only thing I'm unhappy about is that I had to stop in the middle of the job. Not only that,but stop overnight and pick up 24 hours later. I always hate having to stop because I get in a groove and remember everything perfectly, etc. Oh well. Hopefully it'll be done in a couple hours and back on the road in like new condition tonight.
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