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It's finally out. Kinger's heads came in yesterday as well. The 04 Escape engine has been dismantled down to the heads, and it's time to start swapping stuff out.
I did run into a problem though; the harness holding the shifter cables stayed attached while we were lifting the engine out, and one looks a little kinked as a result. I believe that they'll need to be replaced just for peace of mind.
So, my weekend will be filled with dismantling the top end of the SVT engine and putting accessories onto the Escape block. Fun times. I'm glad that my run-to-the-parts-store car is a Miata.
My current parts list is as follows (critique as necessary):
Escape head gaskets and head bolts
Contour valve cover gaskets, front cover gaskets and UIM/LIM gaskets
SVT clutch, pressure plate and slave cylinder rebuild kit
front engine mount stud (found bent)
driver's side ball joint (fork busted)
hard line radiator hose outlet (rubber, cut)
shifter cables (dang)
Whirling dervish of FFOG.
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You might do yourself a favor(if money permits) and install a set of MSDS headers while you have the engine on a stand. With as cheap as they can be had now, you'd be wise to do this mod with the Kinger heads.
Are you going through the transmission at all while you're at it, or just installing the clutch? I presume the SVT clutch is brand new? It should hold up pretty well to the N/A 3L, but my personal preference is the SPEC stage 1(not required).
Sounds like you're well on your way. Good luck with the build! Definitely keep us updated with your progress.
Mark
2000 Black CSVT
3.0L Hybrid - 206fwhp & 195fwtq
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I'd just as soon keep it emissions legal (testing mandatory in Wake County NC). And with about $2K sitting in the garage floor waiting to be bolted into the Miata for autocross next season, another $500 to a "reliable" daily driver that I've already put too much money into this month anyway doesn't make financial sense to me.
I just figured that it makes sense to swap the 65K clutch out now with another stocker while the tranny is out. It's a lot easier this way.
Is a slave cylinder job necessary, or a "just do it" thing?
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Change the slave and do the headers - even with main cat you'll still be emissions friendly. Not doing the headers is just silly.
Also has the tranny had ANY work done on it? You state budget constraints - but I would be fearful of not cracking the trans and checking the condition of the diff and the 3rd gear synchro.
I mean you had the heads done but are saying no to headers and trans work? My priorities would have been the opposite way around!
Last edited by Stazi; 12/01/05 06:53 PM.
2000 SVT Turbo 295hp/269ftlb@12psi
#1 for Bendix Brakes Kits!
Knuckles rebuilt w/new bearings $55
AUSSIE ENDLINKS $70
Gutted pre-cats $80/set
A lack of planning on your part does not constitute an emergency on mine!
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Originally posted by Stazi:
Not doing the headers is just silly.
That was what I was getting at. You had to pay a pretty penny on those Kinger heads, so I'm assuming you're going for performance. Why bottleneck the hell out of your exhaust with stock manifolds, when the headers will be emissions friendly if you retain your stock cat? If finances are holding you up, then wait!  You can get a coated set of headers for ~$300 shipped.
Mark
2000 Black CSVT
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Whirling dervish of FFOG.
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2000 SVT Turbo 295hp/269ftlb@12psi
#1 for Bendix Brakes Kits!
Knuckles rebuilt w/new bearings $55
AUSSIE ENDLINKS $70
Gutted pre-cats $80/set
A lack of planning on your part does not constitute an emergency on mine!
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Paying that much for head work and no headers?! You high mang?  And have fun swapping shift cables! Take your time putting the engine in and out. Couple pumps with the cherry picker run around to look at everything, adjust pump a little more. Helps a ton to have a helper.
-'96 SE MTX 3L
-'98 SVT 1,173 of 6,535
-'05 Mazda 6s, loaded, g/f's ride
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For the record, both my buddy and I missed them when we made the final walkaround.
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www.msdsinc.comGet the phone# off of there and call Marty personally. A lot of time his email doesn't work properly from what I've found. You can find details on pricing of the headers in the Group Buy forum by doing a search for MSDS. Mark
2000 Black CSVT
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For the final walk around?! What is this? 3-2-1 Liftoff! This should be a slow process. Also don't make the same mistake I did on my first. Change the rod bearings minumum. Also what about all the mods for the transmission? LSD IS A MUST, new twin blocker 3rd gear synchros and Zetec final drive too.
-'96 SE MTX 3L
-'98 SVT 1,173 of 6,535
-'05 Mazda 6s, loaded, g/f's ride
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*sigh*
I was the lifter, he was the spotter. We both did an under and over the engine check, and missed one thing.
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I have to say all this work and no LSD is just plain assinine.
Also you could have skipped those over priced heads and spent that money in far better places if your budget was so tight.
2000 SVT #674
13.47 @ 102 - All Motor!
It was not broke; Yet I fixed it anyway.
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So my updated list should include:
MSDS headers and y-pipe and MIL eliminators
Torsen differential
Kustom Kogbox from Terry Haines
Arizona Dyno Chip custom
Carbon fiber hood
Anything else?
For the record, this is to be a fun, dependable daily driver. Not teh fastest SVT evar. The Miata is the racecar.
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Originally posted by weargle:
So my updated list should include:
MSDS headers and y-pipe and MIL eliminators
Torsen differential
Kustom Kogbox from Terry Haines
Arizona Dyno Chip custom
Carbon fiber hood
Anything else?
For the record, this is to be a fun, dependable daily driver. Not teh fastest SVT evar. The Miata is the racecar.
I don't know about a fancy gearbox. Just an LSD and good look through to replace worn components. I would say the LSD is more of a must than the headers. I'm in agreement with Greg. Why the expensive heads? That would have been last on my list. They're nice but as you said "This is a nice daily." 
-'96 SE MTX 3L
-'98 SVT 1,173 of 6,535
-'05 Mazda 6s, loaded, g/f's ride
-Need a 96-00 manual on CD? PM or email me
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$1500 heads vs. no trans work or headers 
2000 SVT Turbo 295hp/269ftlb@12psi
#1 for Bendix Brakes Kits!
Knuckles rebuilt w/new bearings $55
AUSSIE ENDLINKS $70
Gutted pre-cats $80/set
A lack of planning on your part does not constitute an emergency on mine!
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Originally posted by weargle:
MSDS headers and y-pipe and MIL eliminators
Torsen differential
Kustom Kogbox from Terry Haines
Arizona Dyno Chip custom
Carbon fiber hood
You can get away with optimizing your stock y-pipe if you're on a budget. You can also make your own MIL eliminators to cut costs.
LSD is a MUST HAVE! 
Fully built tranny, not so much. Hell, I wouldn't even consider the Zetec final drive if you aren't boosting it. The stock 4:06 gears were perfect even for my 281whp nitrous runs.
Custom chip or SCT Xcalibrator2 would be wise
Carbon fiber hood, not so much. This is the LAST thing I'd consider a must have.
Mark
2000 Black CSVT
3.0L Hybrid - 206fwhp & 195fwtq
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Originally posted by todras:
Why the expensive heads?
PnP in carspeak = ported and polished
PnP in computerspeak = plug and play
PnP in Wes-speak = all of the above
The not going whole hog is because of the two grand in 13x8 Rota RBs, Ground Controls, Konis, front swaybar and end links and swaybar brackets and polyurethane bushings that are sitting in the garage because the DD broke. Shoot, I don't even have upper shock mounts/bumpstops yet, much less V710s.
I understand that it's pretty easy to spend other people's money, especially on teh intarweb, but let's go back to the first post. Is there any glaring omission from that original list not named an LSD, transmission upgrade or headers.
Whirling dervish of FFOG.
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I have to agree the Torsen is a must
Skip the tranny work
Gut the precats: Even at $300 I would not be able to justify the extra 5hp? the msds offer over this option. From seeing a lot of numbers I have yet to be convinced the headers add anything over gutted precats.
The zetec drive is also worthless imo.
98 3.0 svt: Sold
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if the tranny shifts perfect and your on a budget, order a torsen and install it yourself, thats what i did (and i didnt even know if the tranny was good!) a LSD is a must-have for a 3L swap!
Russell
Oval Port 3L Nearly Done
MTX75 w/ Homebrew Zetec FD and Torsen Complete
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Originally posted by BiggsvT28:
The zetec drive is also worthless imo.
You need to take my car for a drive then.
-'96 SE MTX 3L
-'98 SVT 1,173 of 6,535
-'05 Mazda 6s, loaded, g/f's ride
-Need a 96-00 manual on CD? PM or email me
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Originally posted by weargle:
front swaybar and end links and swaybar brackets and polyurethane bushings
 Did you install the Cougar bar or something? Such a small difference. Don't know why ppl install it. Did you upgrade rear?
-'96 SE MTX 3L
-'98 SVT 1,173 of 6,535
-'05 Mazda 6s, loaded, g/f's ride
-Need a 96-00 manual on CD? PM or email me
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Originally posted by todras:
Originally posted by BiggsvT28:
The zetec drive is also worthless imo.
You need to take my car for a drive then.
Why? Maybe he's driven a zetec before.
Former owner of '99 CSVT - Silver #222/2760
356/334 wHP/TQ at 10psi on pump gas!
See My Mods
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'06 Mazda5 Touring, 5spd,MTX, Black
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Originally posted by Y2KSVT:
, when the headers will be emissions friendly if you retain your stock cat? Mark
um...kinda late to ask but im doing the 3L, installed headers and had to do a high flow cat to be able to connect it all up. will it still be smog legal??   
Originally posted by Tourgasm:
Sometimes you can mess up a word so bad that spell check doens't know what the hell you're talking about.
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*Should* still pass emissions test. Duratecs seem to be pretty clean-running even without all the cats. Ray McNairy proved that a 2.5L w/ headers & no cats will pass a CA smog check....
State ref. would probably fail you on the visual inspection if it ever got that far. I must say, however, that the smog station I go to is fairly lax- they've never once even looked under my car to see if there's a cat.
The average smog guy likely wouldn't be able to *see* the headers due to the cramped engine bay.
Do yourself a favor, though, and put your stock intake (plastic cone filter cover thing) back on for the inspection- most guys know that aftermarket, open-element filters don't carry CARB exemption.
-cd
-Chuck Dienzo
Black 98.5 E1 SVT
#5022 of 6535
Born on March 16, 1998
"If trees could scream, would we be so cavalier about cutting them down? We might, if they screamed all the time, for no good reason."
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Originally posted by todras:
Did you install the Cougar bar or something? Such a small difference. Don't know why ppl install it. Did you upgrade rear?
No. I'm prepping my Miata for CSP. I doubt that 13x8's would fit over my CSVT brakes.
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Oh those are for your Miata. Who knew.
-'96 SE MTX 3L
-'98 SVT 1,173 of 6,535
-'05 Mazda 6s, loaded, g/f's ride
-Need a 96-00 manual on CD? PM or email me
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Originally posted by todras:
Originally posted by BiggsvT28:
The zetec drive is also worthless imo.
You need to take my car for a drive then.
Can I ask why you went with the Zetec final drive? Honestly, I can't see a reason for it unless you're over the 300whp/wtq mark.
I've seen a lot of people saying they are frying they're tires pretty bad with their turbo kits, when only pushing ~280-290whp(low boost). I was making 281whp 289wtq when the nitrous was first installed, and I never had many traction issues. Are people just buying cheap-o tires?
Mark
2000 Black CSVT
3.0L Hybrid - 206fwhp & 195fwtq
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Originally posted by Y2KSVT:
Originally posted by todras:
Originally posted by BiggsvT28:
The zetec drive is also worthless imo.
You need to take my car for a drive then.
Can I ask why you went with the Zetec final drive? Honestly, I can't see a reason for it unless you're over the 300whp/wtq mark.
I've seen a lot of people saying they are frying they're tires pretty bad with their turbo kits, when only pushing ~280-290whp(low boost). I was making 281whp 289wtq when the nitrous was first installed, and I never had many traction issues. Are people just buying cheap-o tires?
Mark
The power with nitrous comes on differently... 
Do you hit WOT at launch?!
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Originally posted by Y2KSVT:
Honestly, I can't see a reason for it unless you're over the 300whp/wtq mark.
Better launching, keep it in 2nd doing the 1/4, fuel economy.
-'96 SE MTX 3L
-'98 SVT 1,173 of 6,535
-'05 Mazda 6s, loaded, g/f's ride
-Need a 96-00 manual on CD? PM or email me
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Originally posted by todras:
Originally posted by Y2KSVT:
Honestly, I can't see a reason for it unless you're over the 300whp/wtq mark.
Better launching, keep it in 2nd doing the 1/4, fuel economy.
all reasons that convinced me to do it. although i didnt know about the 1/4 thing. thats just icing on the cake to me!  i was keeping up with a modded 2nd gen sho at the 1/4 track until i shifted to 3rd, where he just pulled away from me  payback is forthcoming!! 
Originally posted by Tourgasm:
Sometimes you can mess up a word so bad that spell check doens't know what the hell you're talking about.
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Originally posted by todras:
Originally posted by Y2KSVT:
Honestly, I can't see a reason for it unless you're over the 300whp/wtq mark.
Better launching, keep it in 2nd doing the 1/4, fuel economy.
When I see some Zetec F/D people eclipsing my 2.13 60' time on street tires, I'll think twice about it.
Keep it in 2nd doing the 1/4? Are you drunk? Maybe the 1/8 mile!
Fuel economy..... Call me crazy but I don't build my summer/fast car to get awesome gas mileage. Besides, 1-3mpg extra isn't going to change my mind.
Mark
2000 Black CSVT
3.0L Hybrid - 206fwhp & 195fwtq
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Originally posted by Y2KSVT:
Keep it in 2nd doing the 1/4? Are you drunk? Maybe the 1/8 mile!
Doh! 3rd. Fuel economy is just a side benefit. Not something I don't consider either. Fine don't get. No one cares. Those that have it know and love it. You can argue on the net all you want.
-'96 SE MTX 3L
-'98 SVT 1,173 of 6,535
-'05 Mazda 6s, loaded, g/f's ride
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Originally posted by todras:
Originally posted by Y2KSVT:
Keep it in 2nd doing the 1/4? Are you drunk? Maybe the 1/8 mile!
Doh! 3rd. Fuel economy is just a side benefit. Not something I don't consider either. Fine don't get. No one cares. Those that have it know and love it. You can argue on the net all you want.
Arguing? Nah, just having a conversation that Weargle can make his own decisions from. I just thought it was funny that you bring up 1/4 mile benefits when you're one of the people that feel so strongly about it not being a 1/4 mile car 
For the record, I get 23mpg in city/highway mix with a lot of abuse, and 29mpg on the highway.
Mark
2000 Black CSVT
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Originally posted by Y2KSVT:
For the record, I get 23mpg in city/highway mix with a lot of abuse, and 29mpg on the highway.
Mark
no you don't cause you don't have a TB.
1999 Cougar V6 MTX
SVT UIM/LIM/65mm TB, I/H/E, Fidanza/SPEC III/Torsen, Koni/GC's, 19" Icon wheels w/ Pirelli rubber, NX Wet Kit
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Originally posted by todras:
Originally posted by Y2KSVT:
Keep it in 2nd doing the 1/4? Are you drunk? Maybe the 1/8 mile!
Doh! 3rd. Fuel economy is just a side benefit. Not something I don't consider either. Fine don't get. No one cares. Those that have it know and love it. You can argue on the net all you want.
Just curious, has anyone actually documented and proved that the Zetec FD actually gets better fuel mileage? I would think that the few hundred RPM difference wouldn't show that much improvement.
Additionally, has anyone proved that the Zetec FD net's beter short times and 1/4 times? I don't recall seeing any....
Ryan
Trollin!
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Originally posted by RTStabler51:
Originally posted by todras:
Originally posted by Y2KSVT:
Keep it in 2nd doing the 1/4? Are you drunk? Maybe the 1/8 mile!
Doh! 3rd. Fuel economy is just a side benefit. Not something I don't consider either. Fine don't get. No one cares. Those that have it know and love it. You can argue on the net all you want.
Just curious, has anyone actually documented and proved that the Zetec FD actually gets better fuel mileage? I would think that the few hundred RPM difference wouldn't show that much improvement.
Additionally, has anyone proved that the Zetec FD net's beter short times and 1/4 times? I don't recall seeing any....
In general theory, taller gears (3.84 compaired to 4.06) will somewhat hurt acceleration but will also someshet improve fuel consumption. There are many variables that may change that.
Also in general, running around with gears lower than needed is annoying so the tendency is to raise the gear ratio as low end torque is improved.
One true benefit of the 3.84 gear over the 4.06 if you have increased the power to benefit from it is that 0 to 60 can be accomplished with one shift (1st and 2nd gear) instead of 2 shifts (1st, 2nd, and 3rd gear).
One of the biggest issues in choosing final drive ratios is cam selection. Generally hotter grinds have less low end torque and work best with lower final drive gears. Since we don't have a lot of affordable hot cam grinds available for these engines, this won't make much difference for us.
Jim Johnson
98 SVT
03 Escape Limited
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All I know is that with the Zetec FD I can control the wheelspin and it's limited to 2nd gear - I've yet to break it loose in 3rd even when I was at SZ and had the boost cranked, alcohol injecting and race gas. Wheels spin may be cool and fun - but getting the power to the ground is better!
2000 SVT Turbo 295hp/269ftlb@12psi
#1 for Bendix Brakes Kits!
Knuckles rebuilt w/new bearings $55
AUSSIE ENDLINKS $70
Gutted pre-cats $80/set
A lack of planning on your part does not constitute an emergency on mine!
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Originally posted by Y2KSVT:
I just thought it was funny that you bring up 1/4 mile benefits when you're one of the people that feel so strongly about it not being a 1/4 mile car
Ya got me there. I like the gearing in my SHO and wanted to duplicate it. Just seemed like I was running out of gear with my 170hp engine.
-'96 SE MTX 3L
-'98 SVT 1,173 of 6,535
-'05 Mazda 6s, loaded, g/f's ride
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Jimbo, I understand the reasoning behind it and agree with the theory, but was just curious to see if anyone has actually proven it with this specific platform. Sounds like so far the answer is no.
Ryan
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I'd prefer a little taller gearing...having to cruise at 70 or so in order to keep the revs at 3000rpm is a little boring. Oh well, another something to consider when my swap happens.
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Jim, do you think I should run the Zetec FD with the stage 4 CAT cams?
Aaron
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Originally posted by Y2KSVT:
Originally posted by todras:
Originally posted by Y2KSVT:
Honestly, I can't see a reason for it unless you're over the 300whp/wtq mark.
Better launching, keep it in 2nd doing the 1/4, fuel economy.
When I see some Zetec F/D people eclipsing my 2.13 60' time on street tires, I'll think twice about it.
Keep it in 2nd doing the 1/4? Are you drunk? Maybe the 1/8 mile!
Fuel economy..... Call me crazy but I don't build my summer/fast car to get awesome gas mileage. Besides, 1-3mpg extra isn't going to change my mind.
Mark
You can keep yours in 3rd doing the 1/4 mile just by adding 200 rpm to your rev limit and running a taller tire.
After doing the math, the taller tire I run now gave me almost the same effective final drive change as if I had changed the diff and kept stock width tires, insofar as launching goes. I needed tires anyway so I got wider and taller rubber and pretty much fixed the very difficult launching issues.
Another problem was the escape cams. They boosted the midrange torque so much with the turbo that it would rip the [censored] out of any tires I put on there whenever I broke 3000 rpm and half throttle....at 6psi. The SVT cams have a much more linear torque curve and allow a much smoother onset of power so that I can modulate the throttle. With both the tire change and going back to my SVT cams I am able to launch a heck of a lot easier now. The Zetec FD was just too expensive with all these other options to get the same effect. Now if I had it for free, then maybe I'd have done it BUT... it still will kill your hole shot where the real problem is traction.
To get the best launch you want to keep the higher ratio final drive and just improve the traction because you are putting more power to the ground that way.
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with stock gears and my 3L hybrid i didnt know what traction was! i would have loved the zetec gears with that setup, and i really want them for the turbo. too bad i cant afford it, if i find a used zetec mtx tranny for cheap ill do the upgrade.....
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Originally posted by NVS SVT:
Jim, do you think I should run the Zetec FD with the stage 4 CAT cams?
Aaron
That's a good question. You need some input from CAT. The whole question for them is around if there will be some low end torque loss. With the additional lift and moderate increase in duration, I suspect that the slightly taller gears will be beneficial, but you really need some insight from CAT to help make that choice.
Edit:
I just reread this and realized that I may have the wrong set of cams in mind. Is this the set that pictures and specs were posted for a few weeks ago? The ones that had .266" lift and 270 degress duration (IIRC)? If it a hotter set, you may very well want to stay with the 4.06 gears. Again, you need some input from CAT.
Last edited by Big Jim; 12/03/05 02:39 AM.
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Originally posted by NVS SVT:
Jim, do you think I should run the Zetec FD with the stage 4 CAT cams?
Aaron
No. If anything you want the 4.5 Capaldi gear.
With a shorter duration and higher rpm powerband you will want to keep the engine on a boil. A taller final drive will hurt performance.
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Originally posted by warmonger:
You can keep yours in 3rd doing the 1/4 mile just by adding 200 rpm to your rev limit and running a taller tire.
After doing the math, the taller tire I run now gave me almost the same effective final drive change as if I had changed the diff and kept stock width tires, insofar as launching goes.
That's exactly what I've done. I've got a wider and taller tire(60treadware doesn't hurt ) with a raised rev limiter. I haven't been back to the track with this setup, but feel that I'll be able to cut very similar 60' times, and pull 2/10 at the end of the track. I hope to pickup a mile an hour or two with the new tune. is it spring time yet?
Mark
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Originally posted by DemonSVT:
Originally posted by NVS SVT:
Jim, do you think I should run the Zetec FD with the stage 4 CAT cams?
Aaron
No. If anything you want the 4.5 Capaldi gear.
With a shorter duration and higher rpm powerband you will want to keep the engine on a boil. A taller final drive will hurt performance.
I thought Capaldi doesn't make the gears anymore? I should really look into that then.
Jim yes I was refering to the cams that Timeless420 posted for me.
Aaron
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Originally posted by NVS SVT:
Originally posted by DemonSVT:
Originally posted by NVS SVT:
Jim, do you think I should run the Zetec FD with the stage 4 CAT cams?
Aaron
No. If anything you want the 4.5 Capaldi gear.
With a shorter duration and higher rpm powerband you will want to keep the engine on a boil. A taller final drive will hurt performance.
I thought Capaldi doesn't make the gears anymore? I should really look into that then.
Jim yes I was refering to the cams that Timeless420 posted for me.
Aaron
You need to find out from CAT what the power characteristics of that cam set are. You only want taller gears if you have an increase in low end torque. The cam specs you published might do that as they resemble an RV grind but if indeed the power band is raised without increasing the low end you will need to stay with stock gearing or try to find lower gears.
Jim Johnson
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The cams are meant to make power high in the power band is what I was told.
Aaron
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I went to the CAT cams web site and found very little information (none) other than the printed specs. They do say that they will answer questions so it would be best to actually try to find out what they have to say. If there would be a decrease in power at low rpm then you do not want taller gears. Remember that there will be an increase in power just by virtue of moving from a 2.5 to a 3.0.
Jim Johnson
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Time to get some more info, thanks for your insight  . Aaron
AKA NVS SVT
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Originally posted by Stazi:
$1500 heads vs. no trans work or headers
Not quite Using the 3L heads you save on valves, plus we do all the hard work of matching the slip port intakes AND a full pnp not half azzing it and just getting the intakes to match up. In the end its a bolt up process and around $1100-1200.
Also as FYI on every set I have sold even low milieage units with less then 10k miles on them we have found numerous guides cracked/worn out of spec, and seats improperly seated!! 
I always trusted they were bullet proof and didn't wear but I'm starting to think differently.
I offer PnP Heads for all durtec's details at PnPheads.com or jesse@pnpheads.com for details.
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Thanks Kinger. That's the reason why I went with his heads. Now if the daggone Ford dealership had head bolts and gaskets, they'd be installed now.
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Originally posted by weargle:
Thanks Kinger. That's the reason why I went with his heads. Now if the daggone Ford dealership had head bolts and gaskets, they'd be installed now.
Yea because they should keep a stock of parts that are rarely needed.  Overhead is great.
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Originally posted by kinger:
Originally posted by Stazi:
$1500 heads vs. no trans work or headers
Not quite Using the 3L heads you save on valves, plus we do all the hard work of matching the slip port intakes AND a full pnp not half azzing it and just getting the intakes to match up. In the end its a bolt up process and around $1100-1200.
Also as FYI on every set I have sold even low milieage units with less then 10k miles on them we have found numerous guides cracked/worn out of spec, and seats improperly seated!!
I always trusted they were bullet proof and didn't wear but I'm starting to think differently.
Jesse - not knocking your work at all - my knock was at weargle who went to the trouble getting PNP heads from you and then decides to run the stock POS precats on them. IMO that's just oxymoronic.
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Originally posted by Stazi:
Originally posted by kinger:
Originally posted by Stazi:
$1500 heads vs. no trans work or headers
Not quite Using the 3L heads you save on valves, plus we do all the hard work of matching the slip port intakes AND a full pnp not half azzing it and just getting the intakes to match up. In the end its a bolt up process and around $1100-1200.
Also as FYI on every set I have sold even low milieage units with less then 10k miles on them we have found numerous guides cracked/worn out of spec, and seats improperly seated!!
I always trusted they were bullet proof and didn't wear but I'm starting to think differently.
Jesse - not knocking your work at all - my knock was at weargle who went to the trouble getting PNP heads from you and then decides to run the stock POS precats on them. IMO that's just oxymoronic.
I know chief just correcting the price, I'm trying to get it as low as I can for you guys. The 2.5L heads are still $1500 though.
Even though wes was going to start with pre-cats its no so stupid to do that then someday add the headers. Obviously smarter then trying to add pnp heads down the road.
I offer PnP Heads for all durtec's details at PnPheads.com or jesse@pnpheads.com for details.
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Originally posted by kinger:
Even though wes was going to start with pre-cats its no so stupid to do that then someday add the headers. Obviously smarter then trying to add pnp heads down the road.
This is true!
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He obviously hasn't done a set of headers on a Duratec while IN the car - it's a MAJOR PITA!
The ease of doing them NOW with the engine out - 15 minutes vs 4-5 hours is worth the $350 you spend on them now.
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Originally posted by Stazi:
The ease of doing them NOW with the engine out - 15 minutes vs 8-10 hours is worth the $350 you spend on them now.
/\
Fixed
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Yeah that's probably WAY more accurate.
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you can get them uncoated,if he doesnt live or drive in the snow belt..pick up just the headers for $200,and modify your stock y..
"Youth ages, immaturity is outgrown, ignorance can be educated, and drunkenness sobered, but STUPID lasts forever."-Aristophanes.
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Uncoated mild steel headers are not a good idea ANYWHERE in the US - they'll rust out in no time from the sheer heat alone.
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Since this thread has gone to shyte already, here's the requisite pic. Reinstallation should be early next week. 
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From personal experience. Don't put the stock trans back in...you are totally f ing yourself and will have to pull it again.
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Originally posted by MapOfTaziFoShoââ??¢:
From personal experience. Don't put the stock trans back in...you are totally f ing yourself and will have to pull it again.
From what Weargle has said, he's going to be driving this car daily, with very little abuse. Point A to Point B driving will not need a rebuilt/upgraded transmission, assuming his trans was still in good shape before the swap.
Mark
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Not cracking the trans to even INSPECT the synchros and diff is ludicrous, regardless.
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Originally posted by Y2KSVT:
Originally posted by MapOfTaziFoShoââ??¢:
From personal experience. Don't put the stock trans back in...you are totally f ing yourself and will have to pull it again.
From what Weargle has said, he's going to be driving this car daily, with very little abuse. Point A to Point B driving will not need a rebuilt/upgraded transmission, assuming his trans was still in good shape before the swap.
Mark
My shift tower bolt broke coming to a stop light when I popped the clutch and put it in neutrel.
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I've already had the pleasure of retrieving a broken bolt from my transmission. I also have a spare MTX-75 that will be receiving a Torsen sometime next summer/fall.
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Originally posted by MapOfTaziFoShoââ??¢:
Originally posted by Y2KSVT:
Originally posted by MapOfTaziFoShoââ??¢:
From personal experience. Don't put the stock trans back in...you are totally f ing yourself and will have to pull it again.
From what Weargle has said, he's going to be driving this car daily, with very little abuse. Point A to Point B driving will not need a rebuilt/upgraded transmission, assuming his trans was still in good shape before the swap.
Mark
My shift tower bolt broke coming to a stop light when I popped the clutch and put it in neutrel.
Yeah, and that means that it will happen to every Contour drive on earth. You post some of the most general things that have happened to YOU, and act as if it's gospil. So I've snapped probably 3 roll resistor bolts, does that mean it happens to everyone? Had the engine not blown in Weargle's car, I'm sure he'd be driving with the tranny as-is right now, and he'd be fine.
Mark
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Originally posted by Y2KSVT:
Originally posted by MapOfTaziFoShoââ??¢:
Originally posted by Y2KSVT:
Originally posted by MapOfTaziFoShoââ??¢:
From personal experience. Don't put the stock trans back in...you are totally f ing yourself and will have to pull it again.
From what Weargle has said, he's going to be driving this car daily, with very little abuse. Point A to Point B driving will not need a rebuilt/upgraded transmission, assuming his trans was still in good shape before the swap.
Mark
My shift tower bolt broke coming to a stop light when I popped the clutch and put it in neutrel.
Yeah, and that means that it will happen to every Contour drive on earth. You post some of the most general things that have happened to YOU, and act as if it's gospil. So I've snapped probably 3 roll resistor bolts, does that mean it happens to everyone? Had the engine not blown in Weargle's car, I'm sure he'd be driving with the tranny as-is right now, and he'd be fine.
Mark
How often does sh!t break on the MTX 75. If not in just my experience...ive helped pull a trans get it back in and then just have scotts bolt on his shift tower break.
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Originally posted by MapOfTaziFoShoââ??¢:
Originally posted by Y2KSVT:
Originally posted by MapOfTaziFoShoââ??¢:
Originally posted by Y2KSVT:
Originally posted by MapOfTaziFoShoââ??¢:
From personal experience. Don't put the stock trans back in...you are totally f ing yourself and will have to pull it again.
From what Weargle has said, he's going to be driving this car daily, with very little abuse. Point A to Point B driving will not need a rebuilt/upgraded transmission, assuming his trans was still in good shape before the swap.
Mark
My shift tower bolt broke coming to a stop light when I popped the clutch and put it in neutrel.
Yeah, and that means that it will happen to every Contour drive on earth. You post some of the most general things that have happened to YOU, and act as if it's gospil. So I've snapped probably 3 roll resistor bolts, does that mean it happens to everyone? Had the engine not blown in Weargle's car, I'm sure he'd be driving with the tranny as-is right now, and he'd be fine.
Mark
How often does sh!t break on the MTX 75. If not in just my experience...ive helped pull a trans get it back in and then just have scotts bolt on his shift tower break.
Then rather than spend major dollars to pull a tranny or the big dollar shaft mods to the shift tower,
Search up my shift tower mod and in the transmission forum.
It can be done rather quickly, a morning or afternoon job and at a cost or around $5.
It will save you from a broken transmission should the bolt ever break.
I figured a lot of people would have appreciated the write-up and pictures and the overall simplicity of the mod itself.
But of course....nope.
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Engine has been buttoned up; transmission has the warmonger fix, and the clutch job was finished. New control arms have been installed as have the shifter cables. CEL eliminators have been installed due to the lack of precats; I found that welding a lower attachment point from a Camaro Bilstein fit exactly in the spot on the rear manifold that was drilled out to gut that cat. Aluminum colored exhaust paint (Duplicolor 1000�ºF) that was cured in the oven seemed to do the trick quite nicely covering the weld and it looks almost factory.
Next step, dropping her in and turning the key.
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Originally posted by weargle:
Engine has been buttoned up; transmission has the warmonger fix, and the clutch job was finished. New control arms have been installed as have the shifter cables. CEL eliminators have been installed due to the lack of precats; I found that welding a lower attachment point from a Camaro Bilstein fit exactly in the spot on the rear manifold that was drilled out to gut that cat. Aluminum colored exhaust paint (Duplicolor 1000�ºF) that was cured in the oven seemed to do the trick quite nicely covering the weld and it looks almost factory.
Next step, dropping her in and turning the key.
Wow. Congrats.
Tell me more about this bilstein thingy?? I'm not quite following it.
Last edited by warmonger; 01/09/06 12:56 AM.
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A buddy had adapted a pair of Camaro Bilstein shocks to fit in his 73 Celica. He had to chopsaw off the bottoms to get them to work, and had spare metal lying around. Imagine a spool cut in half; the lip allowed the material to not fall through the hole that I had drilled, and didn't fill the hole with slag. We trimmed that puppy down a lot, and welded around the edge of it then ground that down almost flush with the rest of the manifold. If you stare at it, it looks like an anomoly from the factory.
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It's alive!
Two things: is there a pic of the front brake clips installed and I have an extra part that looks like a pin with a sheath that came from the left side suspension.
Any ideas?
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Should be on the outside.  Have no idea on the "sheathed pin" w/o a pic.
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Whirling dervish of FFOG.
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Still have never seen anything like that. You sure it's off of a Contour? 
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It has "Ford" stamped on it & isn't from either a Miata or a Goat.
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Originally posted by todras:
Still have never seen anything like that. You sure it's off of a Contour?
Yes, I've seen that on the transmission where the speed sensor/gear pops into the differential housing on the MTX.
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Originally posted by todras:
Still have never seen anything like that. You sure it's off of a Contour?
That is the retaining pin for the speedo housing on the MTX-75
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I bet if you look at the DB timestamp, war and I posted about 2 miliseconds apart just before the minutes changed
Last edited by fastcougar; 02/07/06 09:33 PM.
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HAA I beat you to it! I knew it and you must have copied it  j/k
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I just removed mine last week to send the tranny to Terry
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Come to think of it, I surprised the Todd didn't know this already ... you know, all the channeling he does for Terry
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Originally posted by fastcougar:
I just removed mine last week to send the tranny to Terry
Yeah, I just have a damned good memory for mechanical parts.
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Originally posted by warmonger:
Originally posted by fastcougar:
I just removed mine last week to send the tranny to Terry
Yeah, I just have a damned good memory for mechanical parts.
Ummmmm, yeah. Thanks!
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it is the pin that holds in the alloy speedo drive carrier and pinion in the trans, it will be intersting as & when it drops out and the plastic pinion falls inside the trans!! causes a bit of a hole there...blows out a fair bit of lube too...oh joy
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wait for it... wait for it.... there it is!
Mark
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....seldom any need to remove that speedo pinion/carrier on most trans jobs. Only time it needs to come out is if the gear is damaged on the pinion/drive or the 'O' ring seal is leaking on the carrier....just FWIW
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so did u use the stock diff?!
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Originally posted by todras:
....seldom any need to remove that speedo pinion/carrier on most trans jobs. Only time it needs to come out is if the gear is damaged on the pinion/drive or the 'O' ring seal is leaking on the carrier....just FWIW
Sure, or if you tear the wire out of the VSS installing the engine and you need to replace it. I'm not sure how it came uninstalled, nor can I fathom the plastic gear "falling into the transmission" either. I have to go out to the garage and nut and bolt everything because of a clunk on acceleration/deceleration, and maybe I'll give her a look.
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the Vss unscrews from the speedo gear pinion carrier....you DO NOT have to pull the carrier to remove it...the pinion floats on a cast in boss inside the trans...pull out the carrier and chances are the carrier will come out and leave the pinion behind then it's 10 to 1 that it will fall down inside the trans....lost unless you split the trans to get it!!! NOT smart....
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I'll freely admit the not smart thing, but if the speedometer is working, then wouldn't that suggest that it hasn't fallen in?
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Chances are you/shop refitted the carrier with the green pinion dropped down inside the trans = no speedo drive and a ground up plastic speedo gear inside the trans...If the green pinion did not come out with the carrier chances are its gone'......inside! Ignorance is NOT bliss on an MTX75!!!!
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Originally posted by weargle:
I'll freely admit the not smart thing, but if the speedometer is working, then wouldn't that suggest that it hasn't fallen in?
Dude, if your speedometer is working then you have a gear there... The clip isn't going to make a difference in that respect. If your speedo gear housing is loose and starts backing out then you'll wish it was there. if it is really stiff, you won't even care. However, don't take the risk.
So jack up the car on jackstands, both sides and block the wheels, get under there with a flashlight and find the small hole in the side, perpendicular to the axis of the speedo gear. Push in the pin. You may need to push in on the speedo housing or rotate it to help align the pin so that it goes in all the way. THe clip on the top slips over a metal lip to secure it.
Done deal.
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I hate German engineering. Why wouldn't that piece all be the same as in a Miata transmission? They take an easy solution and overcomplicate everything. I have a feeling that this is the last German car that I will own.
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Originally posted by weargle:
I hate German engineering. Why wouldn't that piece all be the same as in a Miata transmission? They take an easy solution and overcomplicate everything. I have a feeling that this is the last German car that I will own.
This car is Ford, pretty much through and through. The engine might have originated from german engineers but the transmission isn't.
German engineering is usually tops....
For the tranny problems, blame Ford of Europe.
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LMGDAO! Contour being a German car. Hmmm ok. News to us. If you think a Contour has strange engineering. Try buying parts for foreign cars. Looked at a BMW engine bay the way things are packaged? Probably could even put that little pin back in due to clearance. Don't go blaming the car because u f'd up.
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Originally posted by warmonger:
Originally posted by weargle:
I hate German engineering. Why wouldn't that piece all be the same as in a Miata transmission? They take an easy solution and overcomplicate everything. I have a feeling that this is the last German car that I will own.
This car is Ford, pretty much through and through. The engine might have originated from german engineers but the transmission isn't.
German engineering is usually tops....
For the tranny problems, blame Ford of Europe.
You mean the MTX-75 that is manufactured in Cologne, Germany, in the Cologne Transmission plant?
http://media.ford.com/article_display.cfm?article_id=269
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True but the car isn't made in Germany is it?
-'96 SE MTX 3L
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Originally posted by weargle:
Originally posted by warmonger:
Originally posted by weargle:
I hate German engineering. Why wouldn't that piece all be the same as in a Miata transmission? They take an easy solution and overcomplicate everything. I have a feeling that this is the last German car that I will own.
This car is Ford, pretty much through and through. The engine might have originated from german engineers but the transmission isn't.
German engineering is usually tops....
For the tranny problems, blame Ford of Europe.
You mean the MTX-75 that is manufactured in Cologne, Germany, in the Cologne Transmission plant?
http://media.ford.com/article_display.cfm?article_id=269
[censored], half the cars and parts for Ford are made in mexico, but that doesn't make it a Mexican car!!!
The engineers were probably British and American.
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Originally posted by todras:
True but the car isn't made in Germany is it?
How 'bout those Camrys made in the fifth island of Japan, Kentucky? Or those Ohio-san Accords? Are they any less Japanese?
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Originally posted by weargle:
Originally posted by todras:
True but the car isn't made in Germany is it?
How 'bout those Camrys made in the fifth island of Japan, Kentucky? Or those Ohio-san Accords? Are they any less Japanese?
No they aren't and the contour isn't any less American/British
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And the verdict is ...  And the wristpin is shot too, so the piston flops around on the connecting rod like Paris Hilton's head in my lap after she inhaled an eightball.
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Originally posted by weargle:
And the verdict is ...
And the wristpin is shot too, so the piston flops around on the connecting rod like Paris Hilton's head in my lap after she inhaled an eightball.
WHOA WHOA WHOA...you blew the motor already and pulled it out and found your culprit!!!!? 
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But at least the rod never broke....
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Nope, I just got around to putting up the pic of the #6 piston and rod and bearings from the toasted motor. The new one is quite fine. That pic is my new wallpaper, and I have a souvenir to boot
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Good old oil related #6 rod bearing failure. That looks all too familiar.
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Wes, two questions. 1. Driving impressions? 2. What beer are you drinking in that pic posted earlier?
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1) Holy crap, this thing's fast, and isn't even tuned yet.
2) 22 ounces of Samuel Adams Boston Lager
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You know what? I was going to ask if that was the Winter Lager but I'd never seen a 22 oz. bottle in Sams before. I'm not big on the Boston Lager but their seasonals kick ass. Oh yeah, these should have come with a 3L from the factory. I'm thinking about doing it over again someday. I kinda miss mine already.
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Originally posted by weargle:
1) Holy crap, this thing's fast, and isn't even tuned yet.
2) 22 ounces of Samuel Adams Boston Lager
What I should have written in part 1 is that it is fast, but does stumble at lower rpms. Anything below half throttle and under 3500 rpms, and you can feel the hesitation and off-and-on-ing of the timing.
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That's a given. Even after two seperate tuning sessions mine did the same thing. It got better once I got rid of the Pro-M but it always stumbled at least a little bit.
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Originally posted by weargle:
Originally posted by weargle:
1) Holy crap, this thing's fast, and isn't even tuned yet.
2) 22 ounces of Samuel Adams Boston Lager
What I should have written in part 1 is that it is fast, but does stumble at lower rpms. Anything below half throttle and under 3500 rpms, and you can feel the hesitation and off-and-on-ing of the timing.
defin needs a good tuning, everytime i read one of these it makes me went to do the 3L,but after swapping in the svt engine its not something i look forward to doing again
"Youth ages, immaturity is outgrown, ignorance can be educated, and drunkenness sobered, but STUPID lasts forever."-Aristophanes.
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Originally posted by tour96se:
Originally posted by weargle:
Originally posted by weargle:
1) Holy crap, this thing's fast, and isn't even tuned yet.
2) 22 ounces of Samuel Adams Boston Lager
What I should have written in part 1 is that it is fast, but does stumble at lower rpms. Anything below half throttle and under 3500 rpms, and you can feel the hesitation and off-and-on-ing of the timing.
defin needs a good tuning, everytime i read one of these it makes me went to do the 3L,but after swapping in the svt engine its not something i look forward to doing again
You're just realizing that you should have taken our advice and done the 3L in the first place
Mark
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Originally posted by weargle:
Originally posted by weargle:
1) Holy crap, this thing's fast, and isn't even tuned yet.
2) 22 ounces of Samuel Adams Boston Lager
What I should have written in part 1 is that it is fast, but does stumble at lower rpms. Anything below half throttle and under 3500 rpms, and you can feel the hesitation and off-and-on-ing of the timing.
Probably because it's running pig rich. Needs more tuning.
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-'05 Mazda 6s, loaded, g/f's ride
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