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Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 2,454
Learned patience the hard way
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Learned patience the hard way
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 2,454 |
Haha, that Rick guy is such a loser, oh wait.....
In all seriousness though, I charge what I do becuase of the time I put into each block and I pay myself fairly. It really doesn't matter to me if anyone buys them or not, but for those that aren't or don't want to be mechanically inclined, it's a nice service to offer them.
Rick
Owner of 00 #1611 Silver (Totalled) 98.5 T-Red SVT #6180
Buckshot77@msn.com
Misc 3L parts for sale
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Joined: May 2000
Posts: 1,336
Hard-core CEG\'er
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OP
Hard-core CEG\'er
Joined: May 2000
Posts: 1,336 |
Originally posted by Buckshot77:
Haha, that Rick guy is such a loser, oh wait.....
In all seriousness though, I charge what I do becuase of the time I put into each block and I pay myself fairly. It really doesn't matter to me if anyone buys them or not, but for those that aren't or don't want to be mechanically inclined, it's a nice service to offer them.
Rick
I by no means meant that as a shot at you. Please don't take offense. I was mearly showing the double standard that existed. I buy a longblock for $600 and then have all new bolts fitted, the crank reground and fitted with Clevite Mains & Rods, have a 3 angle valve job done on the heads with new valve seals fitted, for an additional $932.90 for a total of $1,500 with the only thing left being head porting (doing myself) and somehow, I'm insane ... I just don't get it.
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Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 2,454
Learned patience the hard way
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Learned patience the hard way
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 2,454 |
I didn't take it as a shot at me by any means. The guys that are talking about the cost being insane are the ones who have the time or take the time to do all of the work themselves. It's strictly a commodity thing, what you're willing to pay for something is completely different than what someone else is willing to pay for it.
As far as insanity goes, that would lie in the fact of doing all the work to this car and sell it at such a loss. As someone else stated, dropping a running 2.5 SVT engine in there and selling it would have been your best/least expensive investment in getting rid of the car and still having piece of mind of not passing on a lemon to someone else.
Rick
Owner of 00 #1611 Silver (Totalled) 98.5 T-Red SVT #6180
Buckshot77@msn.com
Misc 3L parts for sale
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Joined: May 2000
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Hard-core CEG\'er
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Hard-core CEG\'er
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Well, last I checked, I don't have a honing machine or experience doing such, so I don't mind paying for services I have no business rendering myself. I also would have sunk just as much money into a 2.5L rebuild, if not more ... I have a nagging feeling that the "knock" I'm hearing in the video isn't clutch chatter, but rod knocking. I suspect that cylinder #5 is completely fubared! THAT is why I decided to go 3L instead ... besides, more power = more selling power when the time comes to sell the car.
I have give this MUCH thought today since the entire day was a "down" day with no work done on the car. I'm only out the money when I sell the car. I'm stressing the money put into the car because well, I wanted to recoupe that money as quickly as possible. I have decided to forgo the quick turnaround and decided to stick with the "test mule" approach for the turbo kit. I know this sounds wishy washy of me, but I have litterally dumped a lot of money on this project and had nothing but problems ... I'm under a ton of stress and that doesn't help. My best bet is to "stay the course" and make the most of it and the only way I can do that is to develop the turbo piping kit.
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Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 2,454
Learned patience the hard way
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Learned patience the hard way
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 2,454 |
That's what I wanted to hear!
I too am in the same boat with my car. You don't "lose" the money until you actually sell, so it's easier to just keep it.
Good luck with the project.
Rick
Owner of 00 #1611 Silver (Totalled) 98.5 T-Red SVT #6180
Buckshot77@msn.com
Misc 3L parts for sale
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Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 10,015
Hard-core CEG'er
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Hard-core CEG'er
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 10,015 |
Rick was right on the money.
My statement was made because I think you are totally nuts for
1) Buying an older motor that needed a full rebuild
2) Paying to much for that motor in the first place
Like I said and keep saying to all the other guys out there considering 3L's (most notably that giddyup guy that rebuilding a 96 Duratech!   ); WHY buy an old-ass motor that needs honing, machining all new bearing etc, when you can simply buy an +02 Taurus motor with 10,000 miles for $500 and then just swap out the rod bearings and call it a day?
You don't need to hone anything, not new valves seals this, that and the other - it's a waste of money if you aren't building a motor to pump out 400hp all day long - and even still Tom has shown that a basically stock 3L motor with just rod bearings is capable of 400hp without a problem. That's what I'm getting at Trev. When you said you were buying a tired old Escape motor for $600 I told you not to do it, Hell I would've helped you get a low mileage Taurus motor shipped to your place, from LKQ here in MI for less than that, that wouldn't require a total teardown like you're doing now.
Rick charges what he charges to cover the cost of the motor/parts AND he has his labor in the thing - which is totaly justifiable.
I too charge people for 3L's - but it's just my labor. The motor and parts and mods they want done to it is on their dime...I purely offer the "wrenching" and experience for those that aren't confident to do it themselves.
Hence my initial statement that paying $900-odd dollars to rebuild an older engine was insane - when you could've spent $100-200 to put in new bearing, gasket oil pan into a younger, fresher engine and called it a day.
2000 SVT Turbo 295hp/269ftlb@12psi
#1 for Bendix Brakes Kits!
Knuckles rebuilt w/new bearings $55
AUSSIE ENDLINKS $70
Gutted pre-cats $80/set
A lack of planning on your part does not constitute an emergency on mine!
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Joined: May 2000
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Hard-core CEG\'er
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Hard-core CEG\'er
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True, but I have always had the "test mule" aspect of this project in the back on my mind and I'm not cutting any corners if I'm building an engine to develop a turbo kit on AND intend to sell afterwards. I not only want that piece of mind, but I'm sure the new owner in the future will also appreciate it. Call me crazy, but what ever happened to doing things right the first time 
On that note, the Torsen has been ordered, along with the bearings & speedo gear as well as the front suspension parts that need replacing
Last edited by fastcougar; 12/30/05 03:06 PM.
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Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 10,015
Hard-core CEG'er
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Hard-core CEG'er
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Originally posted by fastcougar:
Call me crazy, but what ever happened to doing things right the first time
You're crazy....why? Cos doing it right the first time would be doing it the most cost effective way...i.e. starting with a low mileage engine that doesn't demand high-dollar improvements.
Trevor, not trying to bust your balls - just trying to make you see things from outside your box.
Once again, Tom has proved to us that you don't need to go all-out to build a 3L that is going to put out good numbers and still be a reliable daily-driver. That is irrefutable evidence right there.
2000 SVT Turbo 295hp/269ftlb@12psi
#1 for Bendix Brakes Kits!
Knuckles rebuilt w/new bearings $55
AUSSIE ENDLINKS $70
Gutted pre-cats $80/set
A lack of planning on your part does not constitute an emergency on mine!
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Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 5,810
Hard-core CEG'er
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Hard-core CEG'er
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 5,810 |
Originally posted by Stazi:
Rick was right on the money.
My statement was made because I think you are totally nuts for
1) Buying an older motor that needed a full rebuild
2) Paying to much for that motor in the first place
Like I said and keep saying to all the other guys out there considering 3L's (most notably that giddyup guy that rebuilding a 96 Duratech! ); WHY buy an old-ass motor that needs honing, machining all new bearing etc, when you can simply buy an +02 Taurus motor with 10,000 miles for $500 and then just swap out the rod bearings and call it a day?
You don't need to hone anything, not new valves seals this, that and the other - it's a waste of money if you aren't building a motor to pump out 400hp all day long - and even still Tom has shown that a basically stock 3L motor with just rod bearings is capable of 400hp without a problem. That's what I'm getting at Trev. When you said you were buying a tired old Escape motor for $600 I told you not to do it, Hell I would've helped you get a low mileage Taurus motor shipped to your place, from LKQ here in MI for less than that, that wouldn't require a total teardown like you're doing now.
Rick charges what he charges to cover the cost of the motor/parts AND he has his labor in the thing - which is totaly justifiable.
I too charge people for 3L's - but it's just my labor. The motor and parts and mods they want done to it is on their dime...I purely offer the "wrenching" and experience for those that aren't confident to do it themselves.
Hence my initial statement that paying $900-odd dollars to rebuild an older engine was insane - when you could've spent $100-200 to put in new bearing, gasket oil pan into a younger, fresher engine and called it a day.
Stazi,
This is 100% right! Just to reiterate this point, I don't disagree with anything in it and my helping out giddyup is simply because he made his choice and after pointing this out once I wasn't going to argue any more.
As for labor on a 3L block....Why NOT?? I'd say $1500 for a basically new prepped 3L block that is 99% sure to be perfect to drop in is cheap money.
It's people like you and me who can do good work on our own and then brag about how much power we made and how cheap we did it that make people think it is "cheap" to build a motor. 
However, if I built a block for someone....I'd be right up there with you and Rick.
You've got to pay to play, either in blood/sweat/tears, or in Money you earn from blood/sweat/tears.
And Fastcougar, stuff happens. There isn't a one of us who hasn't made a choice that seemed fair at the time that didn't end up biting us in the butt at least once.
I learned half of the electical/ignition/tuning stuff on this car the first time because I didn't know what was wrong at first.
My Theory: It is perfectly fine to make a mistake, but it is foolish to make the same mistake twice. Thats how we learn.
Don't give up the mechanical thing, you'll end up looking for another hobby and this one is so much fun anyway...when it works.
Besides, NO GARAGE should be that CLEAN!  You've got to break her in right with oil spills, coolant, and occasional dropped parts and hammer blows. 
Former owner of '99 CSVT - Silver #222/2760
356/334 wHP/TQ at 10psi on pump gas!
See My Mods
'05 Volvo S40 Turbo 5 AWD with 6spd, Passion Red
'06 Mazda5 Touring, 5spd,MTX, Black
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Joined: May 2000
Posts: 21,197
I have no life
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I have no life
Joined: May 2000
Posts: 21,197 |
Originally posted by warmonger:
My Theory: It is perfectly fine to make a mistake, but it is foolish to make the same mistake twice. Thats how we learn.
Yep. We have learned and reported or failures here to others don't make the same mistake. That's why we tend to be a little blunt with our posts sometimes. We know what works and what doesn't. Where to cut corners and where not to. No one has learned much harder than I. 
-'96 SE MTX 3L
-'98 SVT 1,173 of 6,535
-'05 Mazda 6s, loaded, g/f's ride
-Need a 96-00 manual on CD? PM or email me
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