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Joined: May 2002
Posts: 21,653
I have no life
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OP
I have no life
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 21,653 |
98.5 SVT
91 Escort GT (almost sold)
96 ATX Zetec (i brake to watch you swerve)
FS: SVT rear sway bar
WTB: Very cheap beater
CEG Dragon Run - October 13-15
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Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 93
CEG\'er
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CEG\'er
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 93 |
Originally posted by Auto-X Fil:
" The HP Plus Ferro-Carbon material can take the heat at the track and get you home safely without having to change your brake pads. This compound was designed for autocross, Solo II, and Track Day applications."
Probably why they list them as "autocross & track" pads and list the HPS as street only pads?
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Note that the HP+ pads are found under "Performance", NOT "Motorsports". The reason it's bad to mess with race/street pads is because race pads ONLY work well at high temps. Street pads, with the exception of pads like the HP+, fade, often quite badly, at high temps. This means your brake bias will dramatically change with temperature, and your car may not stop well when cold. Both are obviously bad situations.
Well, looks like Kremit's HPS street pads might send him into a bad situation at the track...maybe with drilled rotors on the rear...good rotors front and rear probably would get the most out of his "autocross & track" pads, but he's worried about the cost not the proper setup.
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HP+ pads are streetable pads that work well at low temperatures, and thus are completely safe for Kremit's use.
...on the street?
But does Hawk list their HPS pads as trackable? Or will they *tend to fade quite badly*?
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Like Kremit said before you started crapping all over this thread,
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There is no problem mixing pads, at least a pad that is designed for autox (so not all at track pad) and a performance street pad.
And since you've never heard of Hawk, I'd say it's a safe assumption you don't know jack about high performance pads. So why would you post at all?
Kremit also stated that he went with the non-race days on the rear because he wanted to save money, not because he thought it would work best for him on the track.
Would HP+ front and rear work better for him at the track [better if he didn't put them on non-machined OEM rotors that he admitted were not bedded in properly]?
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Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 4,140
Hard-core CEG\'er
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Hard-core CEG\'er
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 4,140 |
Your point was that it was dangerous to run mixed pads. I showed you very clearly that this combination was fine. The HPS/HP+ combination might not be good on the track because the HPS would fade more, but less rear braking is not a dangerous situation. Also, he's not on the track. HPS will have less torque and tend to fade more than HP+, but they are still better than junk bads that go greasy after a few hard stops. I highly doubt they will fade noticeably at even the most brake-intensive autocrss.
So why are you insisting on getting in the last word?
This thread started with a question about noise, which was resolved by info from experts in both braking and autocross. A good question, and some solid facts: HP+ make noise. Don't worry.
But you ask if it's okay to run pads like this.
Kremit explains that he knows what he's doing, and it's okay.
But you have to tell him and Jim they are wrong. Why? Is it because your mad t!te drilled and slotted rotors are so hawt that you are the brake masta? Or because you Unlocked the Power?
So I set you straight. Moxnix, who's probably run more autocross events than anyone here, backs up Kremit and myself.
You aren't satisfied, because your immature little brain can't handle the fact that I'm telling you factual information, not marketing crap. You take my post and quote it, with a little comment after each quote, like that somehow PROVES that you're right.
Well now people are going to come here and read through all this crap before they realize that it's okay to run HP+ and HPS pads. They'll probably start another thread and ask again because you had to act like you know what you were talking about and mindlessly bash your head against the keyboard, resulting in the inane drivel I see before me.
This site is not about one-upmanship or petty know-it-alls. The fact is, there is no problem at all with running these pads. You are backpedaling and looking for loopholes in what I said, just to save face, so that your pathetic little ego can get a boost. Well I said it before, but maybe you didn't get it: You don't know jack about brakes. Suggesting that he use drilled rotors in the rear, for autocross, put the lid on that one. That is the worst tech I've ever seen passed off here. It's absolute rubbish. So how about you let the facts stand, so that people can learn the truth about brake pads. Go ask someone for a hug if you need a self-esteem boost that badly. You don't belong in the brake section of an online car forum if you're looking for Prozac.
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Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 93
CEG\'er
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CEG\'er
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 93 |
Quote:
I'd go with all Plus or all HPS, depending on your needs.
Guess I better watch that kind of logic in the future...might be considered too left-field and radical, too lofty and crappy for some. 
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Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 4,140
Hard-core CEG\'er
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Hard-core CEG\'er
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Thank you for proving my point. You are so in need of feeling like you were right that you pick the one sentence that you know was true by what I said and repost it. Well his needs are saving money and not wearing through all four rotors too fast, so I say his setup is perfect for his needs. Of course better pads all around is an improvement, but he is getting most of the benifits with less cost, which makes sense on a budget. You've backpedaled all the way, and now we're in agreement, since I've proven that you don't know what you're talking about. I'm going to ignore this thread because it's Monday and I have a long week of work ahead of me. I hope that you'll accept that facts are better to post than "I'm right" bullcrap, and leave this alone.
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Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 93
CEG\'er
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CEG\'er
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 93 |
Originally posted by Auto-X Fil:
Your point was that it was dangerous to run mixed pads. I showed you very clearly that this combination was fine.
You steered it to being *fine* on the street...that was never my point, young lion.
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The HPS/HP+ combination might not be good on the track because the HPS would fade more
EXACTLY MY POINT!!! 
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Also, he's not on the track.
Strike all of your previous thoughts on this thread, because Kremit will be *on the track*, as usual...yes?
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HPS will have less torque and tend to fade more than HP+
Agreed 
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but they are still better than junk bads that go greasy after a few hard stops. I highly doubt they will fade noticeably at even the most brake-intensive autocrss.
I'd never take the chance. As I've stated before on this thread, I'd buy all HPS or all HP+, depending on the need. Seeing that Kremit does go *on the track* and doesn't just park his car in the lot when he gets there, I'd have gone with all HP+
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So why are you insisting on getting in the last word?
You jumped on me and tried to pretend that my original concern was for Kremit's *street* days instead of his *track* days.
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This thread started with a question about noise, which was resolved by info from experts in both braking and autocross. A good question, and some solid facts: HP+ make noise. Don't worry.
But you ask if it's okay to run pads like this.
No, not pads like this [HP+], pads like that [HPS] on the track.
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Kremit explains that he knows what he's doing, and it's okay.
No, look again. He based his decision on cutting corners with the cost, not based on what will work best together on the track.
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But you have to tell him and Jim they are wrong. Why?
Wrong, Jim said factory mix compounds so it's okay. I said factory mixes semi-met w/ ceramics and organics, not semi-mets w/ "Autocross & Track" pads.
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Is it because your mad t!te drilled and slotted rotors are so hawt that you are the brake masta? Or because you Unlocked the Power?
Champ, I noticed that your SE hits the parking lot with stock rotors. 
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So I set you straight.
No, you based your hissy on the hopes that Kremit's HPS/HP+ would work well in cold conditions on the street...that was never my point.
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You aren't satisfied, because your immature little brain can't handle the fact that I'm telling you factual information, not marketing crap. You take my post and quote it, with a little comment after each quote, like that somehow PROVES that you're right.
If HAWK wanted their HPS pads on the autocross/track WHY the need for them to develope their HP+ autocross/track pads for the autocross/track? 
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Well now people are going to come here and read through all this crap before they realize that it's okay to run HP+ and HPS pads.
Unless they read:
"The HPS/HP+ combination might not be good on the track because the HPS would fade more" --Auto-X Fil
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They'll probably start another thread and ask again because you had to act like you know what you were talking about and mindlessly bash your head against the keyboard, resulting in the inane drivel I see before me.
You're the one that's tripping all over your previous statements, not I.
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This site is not about one-upmanship or petty know-it-alls. The fact is, there is no problem at all with running these pads. You are backpedaling and looking for loopholes in what I said, just to save face, so that your pathetic little ego can get a boost.
You're the one that defends Kremit's setup for the street and then turn right around and agree with me that it's not that good of a choice for the track, due to the risk of fade with the HPS.
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Well I said it before, but maybe you didn't get it: You don't know jack about brakes. Suggesting that he use drilled rotors in the rear, for autocross, put the lid on that one.
Parking lot king, you missed the point that I was making about your statement for Kremit's HPS pads not being able to handle the heat. You expected me to say slotted so Kremit's street pads would heat up that much faster, and stay heated, for when he takes his Contour to the track? 
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That is the worst tech I've ever seen passed off here. It's absolute rubbish. So how about you let the facts stand, so that people can learn the truth about brake pads. Go ask someone for a hug if you need a self-esteem boost that badly. You don't belong in the brake section of an online car forum if you're looking for Prozac.
You're letting your emotions get the best of you, warrior.
You're just making excuses and getting too upset over my original concern, which you've already confirmed, whether you're stable enough to catch it or not.
You said that the HP+/HPS setup might experience problems on the track, where Kremit will be. I knew that he'd be there...that's why I originally came out with the jaw-dropping notion that all HPS or all HP+ just might work best together, depending on the needs of the driver.
If you're cutting corners somewhere, don't expect the same results as somebody that doesn't cut those same corners.
"The HPS/HP+ combination might not be good on the track because the HPS would fade more" --Auto-X Fil
'nuff said 
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Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 93
CEG\'er
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CEG\'er
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 93 |
Originally posted by Auto-X Fil:
Thank you for proving my point. You are so in need of feeling like you were right that you pick the one sentence that you know was true by what I said and repost it. Well his needs are saving money and not wearing through all four rotors too fast, so I say his setup is perfect for his needs. Of course better pads all around is an improvement, but he is getting most of the benifits with less cost, which makes sense on a budget. You've backpedaled all the way, and now we're in agreement, since I've proven that you don't know what you're talking about. I'm going to ignore this thread because it's Monday and I have a long week of work ahead of me. I hope that you'll accept that facts are better to post than "I'm right" bullcrap, and leave this alone.
Look again. That was MY quote [several days old] that was reposted, not yours.
Thank you for proving my point, even tho' you're not quick enough to notice it yet. And you're the only one that's backpedaled all the way...using your *budget* crutch now, after you were forced to agree that his HPS pads won't do as well on the track, like I originally brought up.
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Joined: May 2002
Posts: 21,653
I have no life
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OP
I have no life
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 21,653 |
Sonofanun, when am I going to a track? I haven't heard of me going to a track. Please inform me so I can be sure to make it.
ANYWAYS, the pads (all of them) held up fine in the mountains (www.tailofthedragon.com). You can ask other members (gmk,gulfcat,etc.) that were there if they agree that my brakes were good.
Of course, HPS is not as good as HP+. The rear does less braking, so it's not a big deal. I could have very easily spent the $20 more on the HP+ pads, but really, there would be no point. Wow, I'd get maybe .001 second faster in autox lap times. Since I'm only locally competive, that wouldn't matter.
The only thing you said that is right, is that HPS don't do as well on the track as HP+. That's like saying, when it rains, the ground is wetter than when it doesn't rain.
I have no plans on my car seeing a track and my brake setup works fine. End of story.
Thanks everyone for the few useful posts. Sorry to anyone reading this that had to read through crap.
98.5 SVT
91 Escort GT (almost sold)
96 ATX Zetec (i brake to watch you swerve)
FS: SVT rear sway bar
WTB: Very cheap beater
CEG Dragon Run - October 13-15
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Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 93
CEG\'er
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CEG\'er
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 93 |
Originally posted by Kremithefrog:
Sonofanun, when am I going to a track? I haven't heard of me going to a track. Please inform me so I can be sure to make it.
So your Escort is your only track car? Kind of foolish to put track pads on your Contour, if you never plan getting it off of the street.
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Of course, HPS is not as good as HP+. The rear does less braking, so it's not a big deal. I could have very easily spent the $20 more on the HP+ pads, but really, there would be no point. Wow, I'd get maybe .001 second faster in autox lap times. Since I'm only locally competive, that wouldn't matter.
Well now, sounds like you have track plans for that Contour afterall.
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I have no plans on my car seeing a track and my brake setup works fine. End of story.
HPS is what I would have gone with then...seeing that you've already stated that you're worried with rotor wear.
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Thanks everyone for the few useful posts. Sorry to anyone reading this that had to read through crap.
You're just a poser. You throw "Autocross & Track" pads on stock rotors, and street pads on the rear...then you say you'll never get that setup on the track. Does the same go for your adjustable gears? Ever adjust them, or are they just for looks? The reason why you're missing the top piece of your timing belt cover?
End of story.
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Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 2,100
Hard-core CEG\'er
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Hard-core CEG\'er
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 2,100 |
Originally posted by SonofaNun:
Well now, sounds like you have track plans for that Contour afterall.
AutoX is not the same as Track.
Who cares in a brake thread why he has adjustable gears or what use they are put to?
Beaten - 2003 MazdaSpeed Protege 29K <- broken hearted
Daily/Weekend Beater - 1990 miata 138K - AutoX every weekend = Adult driven on weekends
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