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Originally posted by DemonSVT:
An extra 100 HP, 1 second less, and 10 mph more is definitely noticable.
Then there is that whole NOT driving the wrong wheels part!
I think there more of a differents then that, Contour 200 hp, 169 t, 7.6 0 to 60, 1/4 low 15s to hight 14s, Mustang 320 hp, 317 t, 5.4 to 60, 1/4 low 13s, hight 12s, thats over, 2 seconds different 0 to 60 and about 2 secouds differents 1/4, that would make it more then just definitely noticable.
SVT 99 #526 of 2760
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Originally posted by chrisilversvt:
Originally posted by JCSVT:
Originally posted by chrisilversvt:
well talk top end all you want but my cousin's '04 cobra(stock except exhaust and k&n)easily pulls on a guy we knows modded ls1 that runs 12.40's...i've been in the car and have it myself....just wait until he gets the $200 pulley kit and gets more boost...
What does that have to do with anything? We are talking about the '01 Cobra.
Bone stock the LS1 car will pull in the higher gears. They also repond better to modifications.
if you actually read my post i said a HIGHLY MODDED ls1 against a STOCK '04 cobra...
btw have you owned either car?????or even driven either car????
actually the hp #'s are pretty similar in an '01 cobra and an ls1 f-body,so it would still pretty much be a drivers race,until ridiculously high speeds....this higher gear pulling your talking about,yeah maybe above 125-130 mph,s
An LS1 does not need to be highly modded to keep up with an '04 Cobra. Full bolt-ons will put most people at 340-350rwhp. That's enough to tangle with a Cobra. Once it comes to modding the LS1 cars have it all over the '01 Cobras.
Here's recent thread about this on SVTPerformance
http://svtperformance.com/forums/showthread.php?t=223917
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Originally posted by chrisilversvt:
Originally posted by SVTCJ:
But back to the original post, an F-body will go faster for a lower total investment than the same model Mustang.
It will suck while doing it though 
if that's the case than you take any f-body,and i'll take my '95 gt......give us both $5k for mods for each and i'll guarantee you my '95 will show its taillights to the f-body in pretty much any competition...but that's because i could buy twice the things that the fbody owner can buy for the same money...
That is different becuase you do not have a MOD motor. They are a lot more expensive to mods and do not have the aftermarket of the 5.0s.
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Originally posted by chrisilversvt:
Originally posted by SVTCJ:
But back to the original post, an F-body will go faster for a lower total investment than the same model Mustang.
It will suck while doing it though
if that's the case than you take any f-body,and i'll take my '95 gt......give us both $5k for mods for each and i'll guarantee you my '95 will show its taillights to the f-body in pretty much any competition...but that's because i could buy twice the things that the fbody owner can buy for the same money...
Once the modding starts all bets are off. I'm referring to STOCK vehicles. I can take $5k and throw it at a clapped out Vega and outrun Vipers in a straight line. That doesn't mean it's a decent car. It would be a $50 car wrapped around $4950 worth of 383 stroker crate motor.
The Mustang does have a better aftermarket, but for $5k you are talking blower. And most hi-dollar mods are about the same price for Mustang or Camaro. Plus you have to take into account that just because someone bought the "Incredible Wunder Uber Gotterdammerrung" doesn't mean it will achieve the claimed horsepower. Mods have to be tuned to realize their potential. You can throw a $1000 BG double pumper on an engine and it will run like crap unless the engine is tuned for it.
To make it fair (?) take a '95 Z28 with the LT1. 275hp (underrated)Bone stock 14.0 flat at 100mph is common and high 13's not out of the question. An LS1 wouldn't be fair.
A '95 GT has 215? stock? and runs high 14's on a good day(the lighter non-SN95s ran mid 14's on a good day stock).
Both stock.
Now add the $5k in mods.
With the Stang you'd do gears first (stock either 2.73 or 3.08 needs to be 3.55 or 3.73 depending on engine combo.), exhaust, blower kit, and have a little left over for odds and ends.
With the Z28 you'd get the blower kit and have enough for exhaust and intake. It came standard with 3.42 gears and T-56 so gear change not really necessary.
I'd still put my money on the Z28 in a straight line. Of course there is always the chance that the sucky Opti-Spark ignition will fail and kill the car before it gets to the end of the 1/4. Or it may grenade the rear end.
The Stang stands a chance of nuking the T5/T45 if a shift is rushed. The rest of it is quite solid.
If you put drag radials on both I lean toward the Stang simply due to the rear axle. A Z28 with drag radials on the stock axle is asking for trouble if abused. A Stang axle is good for 11's.
Don't get me wrong. I'd prefer the stang any day of the week. I just don't think that it can take a Z28 with similar mods in a straight line. It is starting off with a 48 cu in disadvantage and the LT1 is not the dog the TPI 350 was. The LS1 (actually 346 ci not 350) is a whole 'nother ballgame.
I used to own an '87 LX 5.0 and was wrapped up in the Mustang performance scene. It was a great car and I beat it senseless and it kept coming back for more with no complaints for 120k miles. It is still running today with 250k+ on the original engine. But I saw a few Z28 taillights. I didn't have mine anymore when the LS1 came out so I never raced one of those.
Enjoy your Stang and know you have the better car. But not necessarily the fastest. 
Whew, that was long. If you've read this far, I salute your patience and apologize for the length.
I just had to bring up a bit of reality.
OK here is a cut and pasted post from SVTPerformance. Look how many mods were needed to run with a STOCK LS1:
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I have raced a stock 02 t/a here in the city a few times with my mods listed below. They are very close races but if I get a good launch and don't make my teeth chatter, then I usually will win by about 1/2 a car length.
__________________
2001 True Blue Cobra Vert
#125 of 3384
Motive 4.10s, Superchips tuned, Eibach springs, WMS Upper & Lower CAI, 95 Pro-M, Bassani BX series catted Xpipe and catback, Steeda Tri-ax, CDC Lightbar, Saleen Side scoops,
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When I had the 5.0 I was one of those guys who thought I owned the street. I know guys who own F-bodies who are still like that. My first humbling came at the hands of a Turbo 4 cylinder (at least it was a Lotus  ) and one of my LS1 friends has met a Lancer EVO and been impressed by the clear taillights.
Last edited by SVTCJ; 10/07/05 12:25 AM.
'98.5 SVT#5826 of 6535, Silver Frost-As fun to drive as my old MR2 and way more practical!
Not as much fun to drive as my Turbo Rx7 was, but it starts every time!
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Originally posted by JCSVT:
Originally posted by chrisilversvt:
Originally posted by JCSVT:
Originally posted by chrisilversvt:
well talk top end all you want but my cousin's '04 cobra(stock except exhaust and k&n)easily pulls on a guy we knows modded ls1 that runs 12.40's...i've been in the car and have it myself....just wait until he gets the $200 pulley kit and gets more boost...
What does that have to do with anything? We are talking about the '01 Cobra.
Bone stock the LS1 car will pull in the higher gears. They also repond better to modifications.
if you actually read my post i said a HIGHLY MODDED ls1 against a STOCK '04 cobra...
btw have you owned either car?????or even driven either car????
actually the hp #'s are pretty similar in an '01 cobra and an ls1 f-body,so it would still pretty much be a drivers race,until ridiculously high speeds....this higher gear pulling your talking about,yeah maybe above 125-130 mph,s
An LS1 does not need to be highly modded to keep up with an '04 Cobra. Full bolt-ons will put most people at 340-350rwhp. That's enough to tangle with a Cobra. Once it comes to modding the LS1 cars have it all over the '01 Cobras.
Here's recent thread about this on SVTPerformance
http://svtperformance.com/forums/showthread.php?t=223917
a 350 rwhp ls1 is simply not enough to hang with a stock '03-'04,the ls1's were not the only underrated cars....most '03-'04 cobras dyno at anywhere from 370-390 hp at the wheels.....there was a nice video that i actually downloaded off of here,of a guy in his brand new '03 and he walked off and left a modded t/a on the interstate..
new,new ride!
'99 svt
black/mnb
'95 mustang gt sold!
'98 svt #800 sold!
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to avoid a very long quote svtcj,while some of your points are valid.....actually the 95 camaro's were not the ones that were underrated from the factory,it was the ls1's.....a stock lt1 camaro is about good for low 14's at best.....
fwiw my 215 hp gt ran 14.7's stock.....now with nothing more than 3.73's,long tube headers,full exh.,tb and maf,it runs 14.0's to 14.2's......my friend actually has a 96 t/a and while his car is stock(besides k&n and lid)we run pretty much neck and neck...and actually i start to pull on him at high speeds(longtubes make great mid range power)...
and actually with $5k in mods i wouldn't buy a blower(which if you price them you would see that a mustang kit is far cheaper than a kit made for a camaro)i would run a single turbo,and spend about $3k of that and still have $2k left....$5k will barely get you a blower kit for an f-body,and i'm quite sure a turbo kit would be quite hard to install on an fbody...
this argument is almost pointless though as neither side will give up on its stance...but i must say it has been good maturely debating with you guys,without it turning into the usual name calling and other ceg drama... 
new,new ride!
'99 svt
black/mnb
'95 mustang gt sold!
'98 svt #800 sold!
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Originally posted by MadMerc97:
Originally posted by Majisto:
The Mustang lives and the F-body has died. Must we go on? My aunt's 3rd Gen Camaro was a disaster. The 305 was definitely a boat anchor. I don't know which is worse, the 305 or the Olds 307 in my girlfriend's old Caprice.
My grandma died, but that doesn't mean she wasn't great. The same goes for the F-Body. What are you trying to prove with that statement?
That the F-body as a car is junk. The window motors, leaks, paint quality, rear end (The GM rear ends are glass; surprised nobody brought this up), and many other things in addition to the bad safety record that made GM cancel it. The F-body has always played second fiddle to the Mustang in terms of quality. Yes, there are many F-bodies that could out-muscle a Mustang, but it is not a better car. The Fox's quadra-shocks were a joke, but the F-body is an inferior car. This is the automobile world where cars are driven by demand and profits. This has nothing to do with the natural course of life. To compare the two is just silly. It just means you have no other way to back up your statement.
2000 Contour SE
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Originally posted by Majisto:
(The GM rear ends are glass; surprised nobody brought this up),
I did. It was just buried in my long-winded diatribe above 
And Blower kits for the LT1 are $2600 for the Powerdyne and $3500 for the Vortech at SummitRacing.
A turbo kit for the LT1 is $4200 at Pro Turbo Systems.
Stock LT1s have made 270 at the rear wheels. I'd call that underrated. Stock LS1s have made 300+.
'98.5 SVT#5826 of 6535, Silver Frost-As fun to drive as my old MR2 and way more practical!
Not as much fun to drive as my Turbo Rx7 was, but it starts every time!
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Originally posted by chrisilversvt:
fwiw a stock ls1 is NOT faster than an 01 cobra stock for stock it is purely a drivers race....my cousin had an '01 cobra a couple years ago(he now has an '04)and it consistantly ran 13.5's to 13.7's which is right on par with a stock ls1...it is pretty much a drivers race...let's not even get into his '04 which has run a best of 12.8 with only a k&n drop in and flowmasters on it...
The 01 Cobra's were faster than the 99's, even post fix. I've seen stock 01's run 13.5's at Cecil Dragway, which is close to sea level and known to produce great ET's/MPH. My 99 SS with lid and Magnaflow exhaust, ran 12.9@109MPH, bone stock it ran 13.1@107MPH at the same track. There is more potential with the LS1 cars to run considerably better ET's/MPH than the 99/01 Cobras. The best LS1 F-bodies have run high 12's bone stock, the 99/01 Cobras never came close. I drove both a 99 Cobra and my 99 SS and I bought the SS because of mod potential and I actually liked the lower slung GM car's interior better, and the 6-speed Hurst shifter IMHO was much better placed and functionally better. I had no squeaks at all and the rattles are mostly suspension/drivetrain related (the stock 10 bolt rear is very clunky/noisy), not interior related.
Don't get me wrong I liked the Cobra, the exhaust tuning was excellent from the factory, and it was quick, but it's not going to run side by side with a well driven 6-speed F-body LS1 especially after 2nd gear (the infamous 3rd gear LS1 pull). The Cobra's independent rear suspension is a disadvantage when drag racing, but pays off in the turns big time. The few MACH1 Stangs I came across before I sold my SS actually put up much better fights when drag racing than the Cobras I ran in my SS when it was semi-stock.
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Originally posted by chrisilversvt:
Originally posted by SVTCJ:
But back to the original post, an F-body will go faster for a lower total investment than the same model Mustang.
It will suck while doing it though
if that's the case than you take any f-body,and i'll take my '95 gt......give us both $5k for mods for each and i'll guarantee you my '95 will show its taillights to the f-body in pretty much any competition...but that's because i could buy twice the things that the fbody owner can buy for the same money...
Yes, with some of the better known and higher selling NA mod parts this is true, but for FI parts the pricing doesn't go down as much no matter what engine you're talking about, so I'll tell you what, I'll take my 5k, and buy two things:
Single Turbo Kit (3500)
Forged rods/bolts/pistons (1500)
I'll do the install myself, because I can. I'll run 10 PSI to be conservative, that'll put me up around 600-700rwhp. Granted I'll blow up my 10 bolt rear after a month, but I'll toast you every time no matter what you do to your 5.0L engine for that money.
Then again, I could forgo the forged internals and go 5PSI on the stock block and internals safely, grab some 4.11 gears, and a few other mods, I'll be running around 500rwhp good for low 11's on street tires in the mid 120's for traps (and that's conservative).
Last edited by cjbaldw; 10/07/05 03:33 PM.
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